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Post by cowboycoalminer on Aug 9, 2013 9:13:50 GMT -6
So here's what I did. I made a three way split cable and came out the back of the Martech (cleanest pre I've got) straight into each converter. So the source and take is effectively identical. The only difference you will hear is how each converter treats a signal. I think this is the best way to "hear test" a converter. One take so far and I'll add more later. I'm also suppost to get a friends BLA Modded Apollo in here today and I'll add that to the mix as well. I've got an Apollo 16 in here as well UA sent me to try. I'll put that in the mix too. I'd recommend right clicking the links below and downloading them for best results. These where pulled straight off the drive. No bouncing or any tomfoolery. dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/65640533/Apollo_06.wavdl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/65640533/Burl_06.wavdl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/65640533/Symphony_06.wav |
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Post by svart on Aug 9, 2013 9:22:35 GMT -6
Honestly, I don't hear much difference. I think the symphony has a slightly weaker low end but other than that, I think they are nearly identical. It's really hard to differentiate converters these days, especially when the ICs they use are so good that almost everything else in the signal chain makes more difference. I really think it boils more down to other features than converting ability.
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 9, 2013 9:35:31 GMT -6
ooo...I'm gonna download and try on my new ProAcs!
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Post by sozocaps on Aug 9, 2013 9:55:44 GMT -6
Burl sounds the most "there" and round but still fast and clear. (kind of like a tube mic or preamp vs solid state) Symphony sounds great! too , more flat and bigger and crisp but natural still with the best bottom, the Apollo sounds small but still decent conversion.
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Post by lolo on Aug 9, 2013 9:57:34 GMT -6
Cheers Cowboy. Will def listen as I might be in the market for a apollo.
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Post by tonycamphd on Aug 9, 2013 10:26:44 GMT -6
Quick listen on my NOT proAcs  , It's going to be interesting to hear the modded version of the apollo in there??? What i heard, the symphony struck me as the smoothest, the burl struck me as the best of three, the most present and seemed to be .5 to a db louder than the other samples on my rig.(which could be why i liked it the best?) I'm not really familiar with the constructs of the burl, but am i right in saying it has input transfo's? If it does, what ratio are they? and do you or anyone else hear the burl to be slightly louder on theses split source samples? cool test cowboy, i love holding my faculties to account, no matter how foolish they makes me look! lol!  thanx T |
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Post by sozocaps on Aug 9, 2013 10:32:15 GMT -6
Yup Burl was louder or more resonant possibly due to the transformers ?
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Aug 9, 2013 12:31:44 GMT -6
The input on on the three was set the same so the Burl's transformers defiantly make a difference. A good difference to me. The Burl is my favorite. Like solo said, it's just "there" already. The Symphony always sounds a little rolled off on top to me which I also love. I suspect this is what most people love about it and might not be able to identify what it is exactly. Digital is sharp as a razor anyway so any help taming that makes a pleasurable listen.
More to come stay tuned!
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Post by tonycamphd on Aug 9, 2013 14:04:18 GMT -6
Not trying to be a PITA  But besides my ever present request for stacked tracks for a (imo)"more useful" converter comparison(though this one is still interesting w/transfos involved), i would be interested to see a side by side, with the levels of the burl/smphony matched? if the burls input trafo's are subtly more than 1:1 ratio, it's not an accurate comparison? IME, a smidge louder means you've been fletcher/munsoned!, and a smidge louder will usually be picked in a blind? That being said, regardless of what sounds better in the raw, i think i would opt for deadly accurate conversion over flavor. If i want transfo euphony, i'm going to put a unity set vp28 in line, i do not want it from my converter. thats my rather unsolicited 2 cents lol! Btw, i think the modded apollo will stand head to head with either of these? cant wait to find out!! ride cowboy ride!! |
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Post by sozocaps on Aug 9, 2013 15:12:26 GMT -6
Me, I like my 2 AD and DA 16x.... way more important things to buy then conversion possibly 4% better conversion.
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Post by kcatthedog on Aug 9, 2013 15:22:07 GMT -6
our friends in chitown said the blaapollo will stand shoulder to shoulder with the symphony, so curious to hear in cowboy's good hands
this is where the value of the mod to me strikes home , if one has an apollo and a satellite and some ua plugs you have made a good investment and the mod just kicks the sonics of teh apollo up a level or too
am not expecting it to be shoulder to shoulder with the burl but there are other ways to get tranny love happening
btw the ua survey today gives one the option of saying you want the apollo to interface with 16 as a priority for ua to work on !!
kcat
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Post by wiz on Aug 9, 2013 16:43:45 GMT -6
I thought all 3 sounded different.
I noticed it most, from a mixing point of view, on the apollo and symphony, in that when I listen to the line "ex's live in texas" (great vocal testing line btw) that I want to De Ess both the apollo and symphony.
From a tracking point of view, I would want to come up closer to the mic on the apollo..................
The Apollo, to my mind is the weakest of the three. The Burl the best, and the apogee kind of inbetween.
I dont like this, every time I hear the Burl, I really like it. Its expensive, I dont want to like it. 8)
Honestly, it sounds more like 3 different microphones, more so than different convertors, and maybe one of the few convertor shootouts where I can definitely give an answer on why I would like heavily one over the other.
Cowboy has a really good voice, good room, the preamp and mic chain are good so its a good test.
I think though, what we are hearing is not so much the "A=D convertor" part variances.. more the analog that surrounds them.
thanks Cowboy
cheers
Wiz
hmmm kidney? burl? kidney? burl? burl? kidney?
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Aug 9, 2013 17:25:00 GMT -6
I thought all 3 sounded different. I noticed it most, from a mixing point of view, on the apollo and symphony, in that when I listen to the line "ex's live in texas" (great vocal testing line btw) that I want to De Ess both the apollo and symphony. From a tracking point of view, I would want to come up closer to the mic on the apollo.................. The Apollo, to my mind is the weakest of the three. The Burl the best, and the apogee kind of inbetween. I dont like this, every time I hear the Burl, I really like it. Its expensive, I dont want to like it. 8) Honestly, it sounds more like 3 different microphones, more so than different convertors, and maybe one of the few convertor shootouts where I can definitely give an answer on why I would like heavily one over the other. Cowboy has a really good voice, good room, the preamp and mic chain are good so its a good test. I think though, what we are hearing is not so much the "A=D convertor" part variances.. more the analog that surrounds them. thanks Cowboy cheers Wiz hmmm kidney? burl? kidney? burl? burl? kidney? My pleasure, Bro. I think you have good ears cause I hear it the exact same. A lot of folks think converters are the least important part of the chain. I'm certainly not one of those. The Burl is CERTAINLY worth the money. It does something that a converter really shouldn't do which is make things sound finished. Is it the trannies? Probably. Whatever it is, it's there. And here has been the good news for me, the better my gear gets, the less I have to lather on stuff in the mix to get "there". Record and bring up the gain. Nothing like it. |
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Post by wiz on Aug 9, 2013 17:34:01 GMT -6
any idea what the trannies are in it??
** i went looking and found the answer, the Burl B2 has custom wound trannies, which they call BX1.
its also all Class A audio path, discrete components in there as well. So thats why it sounds like it does....**
cheers
Wiz
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Post by henge on Aug 9, 2013 19:02:07 GMT -6
The Burl sounded the best to my ears.Ever so slightly fuller.
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 12, 2013 15:16:12 GMT -6
Haven't had time to dig in...maybe tonight...
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Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 13, 2013 21:00:33 GMT -6
The Burl does exactly what I try to do with the UAD LA2 plug, only it's cleaner, more natural. I love that thing damn it. Both the Apollo and Symphony sound really good, but need help. The Burl's done, just add some verb and you're good to go.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Aug 14, 2013 7:15:18 GMT -6
If you don't buy anything else MJB, pick up a Burl adc. Your a good enough musician that you deserve one.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 14, 2013 8:47:04 GMT -6
I think I'm coning to that same conclusion cowboy, thanks. Even if it takes me a while to get there, I like to know where to aim my sites. There's a certain kind of sound I notice occasionally, many times on tracks you've posted, and that's the thing I want most. I realize every component changes the equation, but some do the bulk of the heavy lifting. Changing a mic could have a much more pronounced effect than say... a dbox mix. The Burl just sounds right. Reminds me of Mark Knopfler's sound, rich, and perfectly balanced. You listen to the music instead of trying to listen around the glare. It's summertime, and I'm layin' low, but I will rise again, and a Burl's on my to do list. Keep posting that stuff bro, it's really fun to listen to, thanks.
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Post by tonycamphd on Aug 14, 2013 19:30:15 GMT -6
Hi Cowboy, have you gotten a chance to spend any time with the modded Apallo? |
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Aug 14, 2013 20:22:14 GMT -6
Yeah Tony. I posted some some true A/B files on the Apollo thread over at the purple place. It made an improvement, albeit a slight one as I expected. Better bass extension and a tiny bit more width.
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Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2013 10:52:54 GMT -6
are the input impedances of each interface similar or the same?
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Post by Mark Kano on Sept 11, 2013 21:20:19 GMT -6
Thanks for posting this Cowboy. The Apollo file seems to missing from your dropbox though. Any way you could upload that one again? I was considering an Apollo but the Burl does sound fantastic. I've never ventured outside of Avid's interfaces so this would be a big jump for me. Great sounding voice and vocal chain!
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Post by Mark Kano on Sept 13, 2013 8:41:14 GMT -6
Ahh, I guess I would still need an actual interface to use the burl.. Would love to hear the box without the transformer mojo, just to have a clearer idea of how the converters stand on their own.
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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 13, 2013 14:04:25 GMT -6
Ahh, I guess I would still need an actual interface to use the burl.. Would love to hear the box without the transformer mojo, just to have a clearer idea of how the converters stand on their own. Or just get a Symphony and be done with it... |
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, It's going to be interesting to hear the modded version of the apollo in there??? 
But besides my ever present request for stacked tracks for a (imo)"more useful" converter comparison(though this one is still interesting w/transfos involved), i would be interested to see a side by side, with the levels of the burl/smphony matched? if the burls input trafo's are subtly more than 1:1 ratio, it's not an accurate comparison? IME, a smidge louder means you've been fletcher/munsoned!, and a smidge louder will usually be picked in a blind? That being said, regardless of what sounds better in the raw, i think i would opt for deadly accurate conversion over flavor. If i want transfo euphony, i'm going to put a unity set vp28 in line, i do not want it from my converter.
