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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 25, 2024 11:51:12 GMT -6
or whatever you call them...like Wavelab...and others I don't know about and is the reason I'm typing. When I've mastered, I've always just done it within the session, or in a new session with the printed track. What are the benefits of a separate program? Different tools? One reason I tend to do it in the same session is that I can tweak the backend if needed...but if there are better results to be had somewhere else...
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Post by jaba on Sept 25, 2024 12:01:09 GMT -6
Curious about this as well.
Any mastering I would do I do in Cubase.
Once the master is approved, I import the file into HOFA for track IDs, meta-data, exporting as DDP, etc.
Works for me but I don't do a whole lot of mastering.
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Post by Blackdawg on Sept 25, 2024 12:24:51 GMT -6
Nothing really I'd say. Just workflow differences.
I use Wavelab and did us Pyramix before that.
Big off the top advantages to Wavelab vs say...Protools.
Clip Effects: PT has this but only for the stock Channelstrip plugin basically. Wavelab you can put any VST on the clip. This is useful as you can put the same plugin chain on each clip of an album but then tweak to make them match better. The work flow in PT is to use automation only if you do this. Which works just fine especially if you know how to use Advance automation panel in PT. But it's just better in Wavelab. Plus you can still do Track effects(plugins) and/or Master section.
Metering/Windows: Built in metering is fantastic and you can customize the window layout extensively to suite your needs/wants.
Meta Data: WAY more capability here. That said, most my clients don't give two shits about meta data these days as they have to input it all themselves anyways at whatever distrobustion service they use. Big Labels still care about this though.
DDP: Make DDPs if required easily.
Batch processing: there is a batch processor but it also does other functions within the app in batch workflows that just make it fast.
Lots of others but thats just the quick and dirty.
Is it worth getting for the average user? Eh..idk. It's another DAW to learn as it's not super intuitive. But there is lots of great documentation on it on YouTube. Justin Perkins has lots of great Tutorials that I'd recommend watching to see if you'd be interested.
Certainly not "required" to master anything.
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Post by Tbone81 on Sept 25, 2024 12:31:13 GMT -6
Wavelab has a better workflow and better track arrangement for mastering. You can line the tracks up end to end, with cross fades, track silence etc, so you can really hear how each song transitions. All while keeping your export markers At designated places so that the songs maintain the proper start/stop points.
The metering tends to be better or at least more tailored to mastering. Better loudness analysis.
It’s basically just a better GUI, depends on the work you do if that’s helpful or not. I just got Wavelab again after years of not owning it. The current sale was too good (70% off after Cubase upgrade).
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Post by Blackdawg on Sept 25, 2024 13:09:43 GMT -6
Damn you just reminded me I missed my chance to upgrade to v12 for 50% off. Damn
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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 25, 2024 13:33:27 GMT -6
Curious about this as well. Any mastering I would do I do in Cubase. Once the master is approved, I import the file into HOFA for track IDs, meta-data, exporting as DDP, etc. Works for me but I don't do a whole lot of mastering. What's the Hofa Plug? I've been using Kid 3...but it's a little clunky. |
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Post by christopher on Sept 25, 2024 13:35:00 GMT -6
Reaper is a great mastering DAW, and it’s really hard to find anything I miss.
Actually I think that’s where I originally started using it, it could do the all things I missed from Wavlab that I couldn’t do in the studio I was at.
I enjoy using wavlab or even TRacks. It’s a different feel and that’s cool.
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Post by Tbone81 on Sept 25, 2024 13:47:08 GMT -6
Damn you just reminded me I missed my chance to upgrade to v12 for 50% off. Damn it’s still good as of today I think |
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Post by jaba on Sept 25, 2024 13:52:15 GMT -6
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Post by EmRR on Sept 25, 2024 13:54:43 GMT -6
Used to be you needed something that could generate a DDP, but for the most part no one takes those now.
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Post by thehightenor on Sept 25, 2024 15:03:39 GMT -6
Wavelab 12 is extremely powerful - it has a lot of features aimed at Mastering.
Tracks - so tracks can be laid out parallel to each other not linear.
Each track can have different plugins and then a master section that processes all plugins.
Analysis tools - amazing metering.
There is a facility where you can listen to the only the processing a plugin is doing - it removes the original signal and always you to hear only the processing.
On and on and on the great features go.
I always do my Mastering in Wavelab - I can highly recommend it if you're serious about getting into pro Mastering - it's a really great app imho.
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Post by FM77 on Sept 25, 2024 15:10:06 GMT -6
In my experience, for one off songs and such, your DAW is more than enough.
If you plan on working as a ME consistently and you want to delve into the culture/community/mindset/milieu/gear - you probably do want Wavelab for the required features, functions and tidbits expected from a ME.
I have WL Pro 11.2 - I skipped the upgrade myself for the first time in years. I can only speak from my perspective, but even after decades using Steinberg architecture and workflow, WL is not straight forward nor intuitive for me. I struggle with it, but it is a cool program when you work out the basics. Well tailored for what it does and it feels very intentional when you use it. Maybe something to do about being away from the DAW you track/mix on. Still for one-offs or quick mastering, I reach for Cubase.
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Post by the other mark williams on Sept 25, 2024 18:20:26 GMT -6
Wavelab has a better workflow and better track arrangement for mastering. You can line the tracks up end to end, with cross fades, track silence etc, so you can really hear how each song transitions. All while keeping your export markers At designated places so that the songs maintain the proper start/stop points. The metering tends to be better or at least more tailored to mastering. Better loudness analysis. It’s basically just a better GUI, depends on the work you do if that’s helpful or not. I just got Wavelab again after years of not owning it. The current sale was too good (70% off after Cubase upgrade). Tommy, do you happen to know if the 70% off Wavelab deal (if you own Cubase) is only during the sale that ends today? I would guess so, but just wanted to check. I haven't had any time this month to play with software stuff...
EDIT: Nevermind, I'm seeing it on the Steinberg site - yep, it's during the promotion only, which ends tonight at midnight (EDT).
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Post by nick8801 on Sept 25, 2024 18:51:22 GMT -6
Anyone ever mess with Sequoia? I know someone who uses it. Seems super spendy.
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mrcel0
Junior Member
Posts: 88
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Post by mrcel0 on Sept 25, 2024 18:59:02 GMT -6
Anyone ever mess with Sequoia? I know someone who uses it. Seems super spendy. To add to this would Samplitude become obsolete? Magix has filed for “insolvency” recently meaning they’re looking to sell and restructure the company? |
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Post by nick8801 on Sept 25, 2024 19:03:22 GMT -6
Anyone ever mess with Sequoia? I know someone who uses it. Seems super spendy. To add to this would Samplitude become obsolete? Magix has filed for “insolvency” recently meaning they’re looking to sell and restructure the company? I know nothing about them other than one guy I know uses it to master lol. |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Sept 25, 2024 19:26:12 GMT -6
I switched to Samplitude shortly after I moved to Windows rather than shelling out for a new Mac in order to run System X. I bought DDP Creator to convert Samplitude's disk image format to DDP. In order to avoid getting caught in the vst 2 to 3 transition, I went back to running my signal processing in Pro Tools. Now that VST3 seems to have settled down, I'm mostly back to Samplitude for mastering.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Sept 25, 2024 19:32:51 GMT -6
I was thinking of just PMing or texting you JK on this one, but honestly what I am about to say is probably better in public. I’m about to go what an old client would call. “Going full E on you “.
Sequoia ( where are the mastering guys and Hudsonic) is probably absolutely the best sounding DAW especially for mastering. The problem here is 1. You’re investing in another DAW, 2. You need to learn another DAW, 3 it’s only PC.
So let’s not even look at the cost, you live in a world dominated by PT & Logic, do you really think you can honestly learn and be as or more proficient in another DAW? Because yeah it’s better but I should go add an astrix that says yes this statement is true but results wise only if your an expert level operator. That’s the thing with software the truely defining factor is the skill of the operator.
Not saying you couldn’t be a an expert, I’m saying with everything you do and the client base you have why bother?*
I had to add the as tix for a conflict alert
Magix has a Madison office staffed by mostly Sonic Foundry Alum because they own Vegas & Acid , yeah I know them all.
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Post by EmRR on Sept 25, 2024 20:12:29 GMT -6
I can do most of it in DP easily, then RX11 to finish. If I needed a DDP I’d fire up DSP-Quattro after that, but honestly it’s gotta be a decade since I used it.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Sept 25, 2024 20:40:29 GMT -6
Samplitude has the same engine as Sequoia. It sounds better than TDM did but only slightly better than PTLE did. In 64 bit there's no longer the huge difference provided you do 24 bit dithering which Samplitude did all along.
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mrcel0
Junior Member
Posts: 88
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Post by mrcel0 on Sept 25, 2024 21:30:13 GMT -6
I was thinking of just PMing or texting you JK on this one, but honestly what I am about to say is probably better in public. I’m about to go what an old client would call. “Going full E on you “. Sequoia ( where are the mastering guys and Hudsonic) is probably absolutely the best sounding DAW especially for mastering. The problem here is 1. You’re investing in another DAW, 2. You need to learn another DAW, 3 it’s only PC. So let’s not even look at the cost, you live in a world dominated by PT & Logic, do you really think you can honestly learn and be as or more proficient in another DAW? Because yeah it’s better but I should go add an astrix that says yes this statement is true but results wise only if your an expert level operator. That’s the thing with software the truely defining factor is the skill of the operator. Not saying you couldn’t be a an expert, I’m saying with everything you do and the client base you have why bother?* I had to add the as tix for a conflict alert Magix has a Madison office staffed by mostly Sonic Foundry Alum because they own Vegas & Acid , yeah I know them all. I appreciate you for having the balls to say this cause I definitely have my opinion that the ‘best sounding DAW’ that i’ve used was Samplitude (same engine as Sequoia?) When you tell anybody this they will tell you how you’re stating something that’s impossible to be true, but when I use my ears, they tell me differently, I don’t care call me insane, but i’m still going to trust in my ears over what I read |
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Post by jmoose on Sept 25, 2024 22:34:50 GMT -6
Used to be you needed something that could generate a DDP, but for the most part no one takes those now. At one point in time DDP & PQ sheets were a thing... and kinda still are for 'real work' - labels & vinyl. Though seems like some pressing plants will do whatever even if you send what they ask for which goes back to the point of 'who cares anymore?' The real advantage to any of the mastering programs vs a more standard DAW comes down to not processing the songs... but processing what happens between all the songs & the project output as a whole. Gaps & silence between songs, crossfades, metadata (who cares anymore?), and the ability to batch the project as a whole to different output formats... These days, for the most part I can do most of the standard "DIY" style release mastering right in logic. But I still have a copy of soundforge & CD architect on an old windows laptop & bust it out now and then. Sometimes 'ya need that bag of tricks. But for the most part anything & everything with any sort of real budget goes to an actual mastering engineer. They aren't that expensive... FWIW the couple 3 mastering cats I have good relationships with all use Sequoia. |
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Post by Dan on Sept 26, 2024 1:33:48 GMT -6
I just use Reaper with a custom DDP template.
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Post by nick8801 on Sept 26, 2024 4:08:04 GMT -6
I just use Reaper with a custom DDP template. Same….but wait…what’s this about sequoia sounding better? In what way? |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Sept 26, 2024 8:38:25 GMT -6
The 80-bit processing and dithering all activity by default can make quite a difference.
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