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Post by geoff738 on Sept 24, 2024 17:49:54 GMT -6
Or something else. This may be my last gasp of gas. For hardware anyhow. Most of my stuff is not really character stuff. I don’t have a tube mic. I don’t have a tube pre. I have a lot of compressors. But the only tubey one is the Vcomp. The KT2a has tubes I guess but it’s not particularly tubey for lack of a better descriptor.
My use case is mainly me; so vocals and acoustic guitar mostly. A bit of hand percussion. Amps very occasionally.
Budget maybe 2k. Hopefully less. I guess multipattern if its a mic because my LDCs are all cardioid.
So which direction do you think gives the biggest bang for the buck? Don’t be afraid to list particular pieces.
Thanks!
Cheers, Geoff
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Post by Vincent R. on Sept 24, 2024 19:56:11 GMT -6
What mics do you currently have? If you have some decent FET mics then a good tube preamp could really add something. I love my U87ai with my Demeter VTMP 2B. I tend to use my tube mics through my 1073.
If you are really looking for a Tube mic, do you know what you might be looking for? If you are looking for your first tube mic and you aren’t really sure, I would suggest looking at the Beesneez B67/267 V2. Between the 67 and 269 modes, and the vintage and modern modes, you will have a setting that will work on anything.
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Post by phdamage on Sept 24, 2024 21:13:26 GMT -6
FWIW if the source is loud enough, some tube mics don’t even need a pre. I usually put my Stam 47 straight into my opto
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Post by drumsound on Sept 24, 2024 21:47:38 GMT -6
Or something else. This may be my last gasp of gas. For hardware anyhow. Most of my stuff is not really character stuff. I don’t have a tube mic. I don’t have a tube pre. I have a lot of compressors. But the only tubey one is the Vcomp. The KT2a has tubes I guess but it’s not particularly tubey for lack of a better descriptor. My use case is mainly me; so vocals and acoustic guitar mostly. A bit of hand percussion. Amps very occasionally. Budget maybe 2k. Hopefully less. I guess multipattern if its a mic because my LDCs are all cardioid. So which direction do you think gives the biggest bang for the buck? Don’t be afraid to list particular pieces. Thanks! Cheers, Geoff If you're looking for a mono channel, the Useful Arts SFP 30 is $1,299 at Sweetwater. Between Input, Output and Color you can get a lot of sonic variations from mics you already own. I concur with Vincent's comment above, often good FET mics react quite well to good tube circuits. As a matter of fact, part of the reason I bought the [stereo version] of the SFP was because I missed having a good tube pre from my U87.
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Post by Vincent R. on Sept 25, 2024 4:10:13 GMT -6
FWIW if the source is loud enough, some tube mics don’t even need a pre. I usually put my Stam 47 straight into my opto Not all compressors can do this, but I always forget the Opto and other LA2A style compressors can. geoff738 you can really push your KT2A like a preamp if you want to. Lower the gain on your preamp and really push the KT2A and see what happens. Maybe grab a 48V box and bypass the preamp all together. I know the KT2A is much less vibey than the AS Opto. The KT2A sounds great with the Black Lion Audio mod though.
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Post by robo on Sept 25, 2024 8:23:02 GMT -6
If you’re content with your mics, then I agree with others that a good tube pre can add something nice on the way in.
The old “pair a tube mic with solid state pre / solid state mic with tube pre” advice is actually pretty solid IME.
I’m very partial to my Hamptone and Sebatron with upgraded tubes, and neither broke the bank.
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Post by Dan on Sept 25, 2024 9:10:19 GMT -6
Good tube circuits, including even Manley, are pretty clean except for the transformers coloring the low end a bit or when pushed.
Something like an ART MPA or VLA will give you what you want. So will any of the Drawmer 1960 pieces. Goodhertz Tupe emulates a bunch of guitar tubes but the 12ax7 pre in it has to be pushed for color like most cleanish 12ax7 mic pres and preamp tubes.
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Post by EmRR on Sept 25, 2024 9:20:32 GMT -6
If I were buying a new tube pre today the only thing remotely close to what I’m used to in vintage world is the Coil CA-70.
A zillion years ago when there weren’t any good inexpensive condensers or really any ribbons available, dirt cheap vintage tube pre’s made dynamic mics sound worlds better.
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Post by Dan on Sept 25, 2024 9:58:40 GMT -6
If I were buying a new tube pre today the only thing remotely close to what I’m used to in vintage world is the Coil CA-70. A zillion years ago when there weren’t any good inexpensive condensers or really any ribbons available, dirt cheap vintage tube pre’s made dynamic mics sound worlds better. There’s also cleaner dynamic mics now. The audix are cleaner and mostly pre scooped. The ATM650 is pretty much an SM57 with the haze and grit removed. Similar tonal response, no old shure distortion. Not flat like a m201. There’s nothing cleaner to replace re20 and re50b (ev635a and the re16 are discontinued). The Neodymium versions are colored. I don’t know anyone who bit on the $800 audix pdx720 dynamic. But hey the industry loves particular distortion even if it makes what sounds good in the room totally wrong without further processing if fixing is even possible, eg the ua610, the 1176, the shure sm57/58/7b, “Neumann” type microphones, ssl channel compressors on drums and e series boosts, the distressor, tons of modern hype plugins
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mrcel0
Junior Member
Posts: 88
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Post by mrcel0 on Sept 25, 2024 10:52:02 GMT -6
Might be a silly question but does it matter where in the signal chain you have a tube? For example,
FET mic > solid state pre > tube comp
Tube mic > solid state pre > FET comp
FET mic > Tube pre > FET comp
I have seen someone state that having a transformer / tube at the mic stage generally sounds “better” to them than a tube being in a later stage in the chain
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Post by recordingengineer on Sept 25, 2024 11:19:12 GMT -6
The ATM650 is pretty much an SM57 with the haze and grit removed. Similar tonal response, no old shure distortion. Maybe I need to try this! I’ve a been using the super cheap Pyle MIC78 on snare lately instead of the SM57 and have been getting better results. Someone recommended me trying the Sontronics Solo on snare, so I’d like to try that too.
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Post by recordingengineer on Sept 25, 2024 12:03:37 GMT -6
If I were buying a new tube pre today the only thing remotely close to what I’m used to in vintage world is the Coil CA-70. I work out of a studio with 48-channel of outboard preamps. I still long for a pair of CA-70s! If you’re happy with your current mics while working with your cleaner preamps, but just looking to add some attitude to them as an option, this is where I’d go. Then again, something like a Sta-Level on vocals goes a long way in adding attitude too. I long for a pair of those too.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Sept 25, 2024 12:30:27 GMT -6
Might be a silly question but does it matter where in the signal chain you have a tube? For example, FET mic > solid state pre > tube comp Tube mic > solid state pre > FET comp FET mic > Tube pre > FET comp I have seen someone state that having a transformer / tube at the mic stage generally sounds “better” to them than a tube being in a later stage in the chain The problem with answering this is it’s about more than just a tube or transistor, it is about the whole circuit and how it interacts with everything else. I agree with Doug most modern pres in general are attempting to bridge the gap between tube and transistor. I never really think in terms of general topology more specific tones. The Coil is probably the most vintage tube tone of modern tube pres’s. The Demeter, is close, this is the pre that started the modern Tube revolution. Not quite as Vintage sounding, but not modern either when Demeter designed these there were not as many off the shelf Transformer options. Could live with either, but it’s still going to come down to the mic and the voice. The Demeter is going to be pretty reasonable for a Stereo pre used & if it isn’t your taste you can probably flip it easily without much of a loss. So for budget reasons it gets a very slight nod, but before I bought one I would be talking what a re tube can get me with Bowie, I know He knows the Demeter!
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Post by ironinthepath on Sept 25, 2024 13:19:47 GMT -6
I'd love to try the Coil CA-70, and may eventually get one, but I've found the Chandler Redd.47 pre also does something nice to FET condensers.
That being said, I am addicted to tube mics. On the edge of buying another one (or pair!) this month actually - even though I don't have a true new need.
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Post by EmRR on Sept 25, 2024 13:48:47 GMT -6
Might be a silly question but does it matter where in the signal chain you have a tube? it depends where it's clipping - that's different for a zillion situations.
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Post by EmRR on Sept 25, 2024 13:51:52 GMT -6
Then again, something like a Sta-Level on vocals goes a long way in adding attitude too. I long for a pair of those too. ...and that gets into the single ended second harmonic versus push-pull third harmonic question. Mics are all gonna be SE, most pre's are gonna be SE but some are PP, and vari-mu comps are all gonna be PP. Different tones and distortion profiles.
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Post by EmRR on Sept 25, 2024 13:53:03 GMT -6
Then there's mic safety to consider; how extreme a situation do you subject your mics to? That can frequently dictate what mic you're willing to put out, and the tube pre can be the bonus in that case.
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Post by geoff738 on Sept 25, 2024 20:04:46 GMT -6
Ok. Good info!
I will address the mics I have on hand.
Soundelux U195. First version. My only real LDC.
R84. It won the mic shootout today on my buddy Stew.
And then a couple MDCs. The AT 4033. Really only gets put on acoustic guitar and even then rarely. And a Joly modded Oktava. kHE47 maybe?
And a bunch of dynamics. SM7 being the most likelyto be found on vocals.
My current chain is Usually Daking pre into Daking Fet compressor. I am not unhappy with this. Quite the opposite. But I am still having a bout of GAS.
Cheers, Geoff
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Post by Vincent R. on Sept 26, 2024 4:59:59 GMT -6
The Soundelux U195 could definitely benefit from a good tube preamp, as could some of your MDCs. I’m such a big fan of tube mics though. Since the U195 is your big mic right now I do think the Beesneez B67/269 would be right up your alley. It would be a bit richer sounding, particularly in 67 mode. I prefer modern mode for its top end extension. In 67 mode you get a rich and mid focused sound. In 269 mode it’s like a U87 with a tube on steroids; very open, and still mid focused. The S2 mod switch is basically the same thing as the Fat switch on the U195. I have a recording of myself on a real M269C and the B67/269 in 269 mode, modern mode, with the S2 mod engaged sounds crazy close. The only weird thing about the mic is it’s about 10 db quieter than my MK U67 or U87ai. It’s about 5 db quieter than my FleA 49. Still, just add some game and your in. Your Daking shouldn’t have any problems with it.
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Post by niklas1073 on Sept 26, 2024 5:21:30 GMT -6
Ok. Good info! I will address the mics I have on hand. Soundelux U195. First version. My only real LDC. R84. It won the mic shootout today on my buddy Stew. And then a couple MDCs. The AT 4033. Really only gets put on acoustic guitar and even then rarely. And a Joly modded Oktava. kHE47 maybe? And a bunch of dynamics. SM7 being the most likelyto be found on vocals. My current chain is Usually Daking pre into Daking Fet compressor. I am not unhappy with this. Quite the opposite. But I am still having a bout of GAS. Cheers, Geoff If you do a lot of vocals, Would a nice slow opto make sense as an alternative in your chain? you have a nice setup there and if you dig the SM7 as a go to, why change it with mics unless you know you are missing out on something. FET vs opto could make sense as maybe not to interfere with what you have but to change character if only for slow tempo songs or so...
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Post by chessparov on Sept 26, 2024 11:29:33 GMT -6
Audioscape Opto. Yum. On wish list. Back in Budget Land… Useful Arts Hornet looks/sounds cool. IMHO the BU67 MKI has somewhat more Clarity in OG 67 mode. Than my (last incarnation) U195/Pre-UA. That lives on FAT mode. BTW if you dial in “Wide Cardiod” on the BU67… It’s similar to the fixed Cardiod of my U195. That brings out Chest Voice, without muddying up the Voice. By relying too much on Proximity Effect. If you guys check out our “Singing/Instrumental Lesson” Thread.., You can learn about Michael Trimble’s teachings. Like how “Breath Stops” influence Vocal Tones. Chris P.S. Thanks again to all participating there.
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Post by geoff738 on Sept 26, 2024 17:54:46 GMT -6
I thought the Coil and Beesneez would come up. Fwiw I do rawkish stuff Isbell to Stonesy to Crowesish etc. Nothing too crazy instrumentation wise.
Cheers, Geoff
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Post by OtisGreying on Sept 26, 2024 18:36:25 GMT -6
My current set up is Tube Mic (47) -> Tube pre -> Tube compressor. Ha....
Sounds great to me. AND I have a baritone voice.
Without the room treatment I've got I'm sure it'd be ridiculous, but If I stay about 6-8 inches (sometimes a little more) from my mic, with a properly treated recording environment, it sounds awesome.
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Post by chessparov on Sept 26, 2024 18:57:29 GMT -6
Great! Otherwise I’d return all my Capitol Rat (and Nat) Pack records. That would pose a real Riddle. Chris
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,083
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Post by ericn on Sept 26, 2024 19:31:52 GMT -6
Great! Otherwise I’d return all my Capitol Rat (and Nat) Pack records. That would pose a real Riddle. Chris Or us Nelsons just jump Full in to wrestling 😁
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