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Post by Ward on Aug 22, 2014 8:34:52 GMT -6
There's some good opto compression going on there and I'm fairly certain it was done with a coincident XY stereo technique. I'm thinking KM54s or M582s by the sound of the acoustic's really high overtones.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 22, 2014 9:45:26 GMT -6
Yeah, uhh.. what ward said ;-)
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Post by odyssey76 on Aug 23, 2014 13:59:30 GMT -6
I just did a quick picking style, double tracked, acoustic track. It's the outro to a song I'm working on. I used a Peluso TR14 for the left track and a Soundelux U195 for the right both going through a WA12. I apologize in advance for the comb filtering especially on the 4th chord of the progression. I did this quick and don't have time to fix it!  I wouldn't leave this in a finished production but it can be a cool effect when done properly……. https%3A//soundcloud.com/treehil/double-tracked-picked-acoustic |
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Post by tonycamphd on Aug 23, 2014 16:00:28 GMT -6
I just did a quick picking style, double tracked, acoustic track. It's the outro to a song I'm working on. I used a Peluso TR14 for the left track and a Soundelux U195 for the right both going through a WA12. I apologize in advance for the comb filtering especially on the 4th chord of the progression. I did this quick and don't have time to fix it! I wouldn't leave this in a finished production but it can be a cool effect when done properly……. https%3A//soundcloud.com/treehil/double-tracked-picked-acousticI think this sounds great man, the best way to get around what you call "comb filtering" in this situation, is to use 2 substantially different sounding guitars and mics, this way the sounds won't be so similar when playing the exact same part, thats why you're hearing that shuffling going on, which can still be a cool effect like you said, but panning hard L/R with 2 very different sounds makes for wiiiiide IME. |
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Post by odyssey76 on Aug 23, 2014 18:05:39 GMT -6
I just did a quick picking style, double tracked, acoustic track. It's the outro to a song I'm working on. I used a Peluso TR14 for the left track and a Soundelux U195 for the right both going through a WA12. I apologize in advance for the comb filtering especially on the 4th chord of the progression. I did this quick and don't have time to fix it! I wouldn't leave this in a finished production but it can be a cool effect when done properly……. https%3A//soundcloud.com/treehil/double-tracked-picked-acousticI think this sounds great man, the best way to get around what you call "comb filtering" in this situation, is to use 2 substantially different sounding guitars and mics, this way the sounds won't be so similar when playing the exact same part, thats why you're hearing that shuffling going on, which can still be a cool effect like you said, but panning hard L/R with 2 very different sounds makes for wiiiiide IME. Thanks Tony. Yeah I definitely understand what you mean. I get that real wide effect with electric guitars but never realized how important it was to use 2 different guitars even though I always do (I generally track a Les Paul on one side and a Tele on the other). Thought the comb filter effect was from the figure 8 pattern on my ribbon picking up shitty reflections in my room. I actually just listened to this on some earbuds and it's not nearly as noticeable as it is through my monitors. I'm glad I posted this but now I want another acoustic since I only have one! I'll have to borrow one and do some experimenting. |
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Post by svart on Aug 23, 2014 18:52:09 GMT -6
Ok, here's mine. It's just a short section for a song that I'm recording. KM184 in ORTF about 7" out from the guitar, one mic pointing more at the bridge, the other more at the 12th fret. No EQ on this, but there will be some high lift in the mix, and maybe a little cut at the body resonance. And yes, this also has the Symetrix 525 on it.. theopiumdenproductions.com/acoustic.wav |
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Post by Ward on Aug 23, 2014 18:54:27 GMT -6
Ooo... sparkly!
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Post by odyssey76 on Aug 23, 2014 19:01:21 GMT -6
Ok, here's mine. It's just a short section for a song that I'm recording. KM184 in ORTF about 7" out from the guitar, one mic pointing more at the bridge, the other more at the 12th fret. No EQ on this, but there will be some high lift in the mix, and maybe a little cut at the body resonance. And yes, this also has the Symetrix 525 on it.. theopiumdenproductions.com/acoustic.wavDamn svart, is that the sound of your room or did you add a little verb? Absolutely gorgeous. |
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Post by svart on Aug 23, 2014 19:19:36 GMT -6
Ok, here's mine. It's just a short section for a song that I'm recording. KM184 in ORTF about 7" out from the guitar, one mic pointing more at the bridge, the other more at the 12th fret. No EQ on this, but there will be some high lift in the mix, and maybe a little cut at the body resonance. And yes, this also has the Symetrix 525 on it.. theopiumdenproductions.com/acoustic.wavDamn svart, is that the sound of your room or did you add a little verb? Absolutely gorgeous. Wow, thanks. That's just the raw tracks. No verb was added. Also, i used 1272 preamps. And, i just wanted to add that I love trying to get a big bold sound, and i don't think i've been able to do it without getting the mics right up on the guitar. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 24, 2014 20:39:45 GMT -6
odysee76, I really liked the tracks. They have their own validity, not anything "wrong" with it at all, only a particular production choice. If I heard this as part of a finished record, it would gain my attention and I'd be waiting for a great vocal to match the great sound. Maybe I'll try two different mics at some point. I have two KM84's on loan right now, and it's tempting to use them both, but I always end up using only one, so perhaps it could be interesting to use one KM84 and my LDC together.
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Post by odyssey76 on Aug 25, 2014 13:37:11 GMT -6
odysee76, I really liked the tracks. They have their own validity, not anything "wrong" with it at all, only a particular production choice. If I heard this as part of a finished record, it would gain my attention and I'd be waiting for a great vocal to match the great sound. Maybe I'll try two different mics at some point. I have two KM84's on loan right now, and it's tempting to use them both, but I always end up using only one, so perhaps it could be interesting to use one KM84 and my LDC together. MJB, thanks man. I guess I'm my own worst critic! LOL. A great vocal certainly won't be done by me, I'm still figuring out which direction I'll go with singers. I would absolutely try two different mics especially with the KM84 and I think you have a heavily modded Blackspade? Nothing to lose there.... Great mics. A KM84 is on my short list of mics to own in this lifetime, I'd have a hard time giving those loaners back to their owner! |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 25, 2014 13:48:10 GMT -6
Oh man, tell me about it ! I'm tempted to offer my friend a montthly payment if he'd sell me one, but he probably wouldn't want to break up the pair. I don't ever want to be without it. For tracks with a lot iof steady strumming it can't be beat
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Post by Randge on Aug 26, 2014 22:17:38 GMT -6
You are the first guy I have found to like the 184's over an 84. They were too bright for me and I sold them to Phish. Now that Mic Rehab is around, I sell nothing!
R
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Post by wiz on Aug 26, 2014 22:20:17 GMT -6
I own an old KM84 (ex capitol) and two KM184s
The old KM84 is my go to for acoustic, especially my Martin D28.
The KM184s spend most of their time as overhead mics. Though I sometimes use them on acoustic and other stuff.
Save up, get a good KM84 and never look back.
cheers
Wiz
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Post by Randge on Aug 26, 2014 22:21:52 GMT -6
Go to 1:35 and hear the rejection of the two mics on Jim's Collings guitar vs his vocal. This is the way I do it anytime I need to cut both guitar and vocal live at the same time.
R
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Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 27, 2014 8:54:44 GMT -6
Cool post, thanks Randge. I'm struggling with this currently. I tried recording a vocal and acoustic guitar at the same time yesterday. The vocal mic sounded great, but the guitar, not so great. I used a Neumann KM84 at the guitar and my LDC for vocal. I've gotten used to hearing two different but nearly identical acoustic tracks panned hard left and right, so the one guitar track sounded small to me.
On Lyle Lovett's "Road to Ensenada", ( a benchmark of mine), he used a stereo C24 on guitars, and a vintage U67 on vocal, with bleed into all three mics. THAT's the sound I want. I think I'm going to try recording just the guitar part, and do vocals later. I have a pair of KM84's on loan, but I'm thinking I'll use my tube vocal mic and the KM84 in stereo. I've never done any mic setups like X/Y or Blumlein, so this would be a first if I tried it.
Any suggestions? I'd try a stereo acoustic with the vocal simultaneously, but with my rig, it's tricky to set up. I have an Apollo, ToneBeast and Warm Audio WA76.
* I love, love, love the KM84 on strummy acoustic tracks, but it's a little thin on tracks where you have lots of picking details. I might try a wider pickup pattern on my LDC, I have 9 settings, and have always stuck to cardioid dead center.
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Aug 27, 2014 9:27:42 GMT -6
U might want to try the 84 in the standard off neck position but your Blackspade above your right shoulder aiming down towards bridge
Experiment with aim spacing but you can a very spacious and detailed stereo spread with inherent differences in your L/R signal which contribute to spaciousness in your mix depending on how you pan .
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Post by Martin John Butler on Aug 27, 2014 10:06:38 GMT -6
Thanks kcat, will try to open my mind a little and try some new things.
Love the new icon !
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Post by mrholmes on Sept 10, 2014 19:49:56 GMT -6
How are you guys treating (generally) acoustic guitar? Depneds on. Last year I tracked a classical player with an single UMT 70 (Mono) on Neve 1073. Rolled off some HF content, did put on some UAD EMT Plate and the player smiled. UMT 70 was about 2 meters away form the guitar at neck body position. With very good tracking rooms you even can go farer away without loosing the near impression. At home I do not have such a room, this one was my small studio room ø 400 ms. |
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Post by Randge on Sept 11, 2014 22:55:16 GMT -6
MJB,
Not sure what your rooms are like, but pencils are all about proximity. So, having said that, give this idea some thought. Now, I haven't tried this yet myself, but try a lead vocal mic where you normally place it (proximity wise) but tilted up like in the video I posted to give you a bit of rejection. Then, take your 84 and use it at the (proximity) distance that makes you happy for acoustic. After that, try the AutoAlign plug and make them in phase and see what you get. I would be curious to hear you give that a try. My personal favorite for capturing guitar and vocal at once is one AT 4060 and some time to find the happy split between guitar and voice. That is a glorious sound if you spend time and dial in the perfect division.
R
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 12, 2014 6:30:07 GMT -6
Thanks Randge. I'm a fan of Paul O'Dette, and that recording is quite close to the amazing sound of his recordings. I will do some experimenting as I go, but the phasing thing is kind of tricky. I have little experience with it, but can hear it all too easily. One problem for me with trying new techniques is I have a limited time and I'm under time pressure to get some of my songs recorded and mixed, so I have to go with a sure thing, or it doesn't get done.
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Post by jimwilliams on Sept 12, 2014 9:16:15 GMT -6
Omni capsules are also very useful. They have no proximity effect and can be placed anywhere with consistant response. I have a CK-62 DF (difuse field) omni with a rising hf response for my AKG460 bodies, excellent for acoustic guitar.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2014 21:02:08 GMT -6
This isn't glamorous but I had a great time with a track this week. It was a cheap acoustic but was recorded twice with a lulu into a Daking. I tend to like the push of compression on acoustic but nothing was sitting right. I took a chance and put the 7802 Opto on both channels without linking and added Waves API 550A for 2db of added top. It ended up with the punch I like but not overtly noticeable and the top add only gave definition to the jangle, not super bright. Who knew the opto would do well.
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Post by odyssey76 on Sept 13, 2014 3:57:49 GMT -6
This isn't glamorous but I had a great time with a track this week. It was a cheap acoustic but was recorded twice with a lulu into a Daking. I tend to like the push of compression on acoustic but nothing was sitting right. I took a chance and put the 7802 Opto on both channels without linking and added Waves API 550A for 2db of added top. It ended up with the punch I like but not overtly noticeable and the top add only gave definition to the jangle, not super bright. Who knew the opto would do well. I've been dying to try a nice opto on acst - some people swear by them. I think tonycamphd likes an LA3A on acoustic if I remember correctly? I don't have one here but I'm always having difficulty compressing acoustics for more punch. I usually leave them alone....for now. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 13, 2014 7:55:26 GMT -6
kcat's done some nice things using an opto compressor. He posted the same track using the WA76 and his opto compressor, ( I forget which one, but I think it's the 7802). The WA76 is working beautifully for me, but in the context kcat posted in the opto was clearly the better choice.
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I wouldn't leave this in a finished production but it can be a cool effect when done properly……. 
