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Post by russellcreekps on Aug 14, 2024 18:52:21 GMT -6
Have a pair of both. They are very different. The Coles are amongst my top three mics. They take EQ very well and became a favourite vocal mic but can sound great on anything. Very smooth frequency response up to 15khz. The Coles has a much bigger sound than the Beyer M160. Dave Cobb/Vance Powell use a 47 with a Coles 4038 on Chris Stapleton's vocal, and Jason Isbell has used a 4038 on his vocal many tracks…and he’s almost eating it (with a pop filter). |
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Post by tonycamphd on Aug 14, 2024 19:46:06 GMT -6
the Samar ribbons are really friggin nice, i have 2 samar ribboned and diffused mics and they are absolutely beautiful, all the buttery bottom with a perfect top end imo
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Post by phdamage on Aug 14, 2024 20:20:12 GMT -6
I have both but I currently only have one m160 and a pair of 4038s. Had a pair of m160s but sold one but I would never sell my 4038s. While I like the m160 a lot, I do have other ribbons that are close enough for my uses (mostly guitar cabs) and they can take more level than a 4038 in that regard. I do have mics that are close to my 4038s but they’re still their own thing. They are my drum room mics on almost every session. Would prob use them as drum overheads if I didn’t have an R88. They get use on guitar cabs sometimes but not on anything super loud. Too nervous about blowing those ribbons
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Post by Mister Chase on Aug 14, 2024 20:45:20 GMT -6
I have both. Love them both. Also love my AEA r84. The m160 has gotten me wonderful overhead sounds for jazz and some of the best Tele clean tones I've ever recorded. The coles has a special sound and I loved it on Ukulele with my Hardy m2. My favorite though is drum overhead. It's a sound to behold. The r84 is a modern classic. I want another.
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Post by drumsound on Aug 14, 2024 21:22:51 GMT -6
I have a pair of 160s and find them to be pretty meh. very colorful midrange that can be cool on guitar cabs, but otherwise i don't use them much. decent drum close mic. i don't get the hype on overheads - i prefer condensers here but if it HAS to be a ribbon then m160s are damn near my last choice, but i could see them working if i was going for a compact kinda vintage drum sound. sometimes its absolutely killer on guitar cabs, but i have a modded pair of m500s that i generally prefer on cabs. i've only used one 4038 one time, as a front of kit mic and it sounded AWESOME and i can see it being super great on overheads. definitely more what i think of when i think of ribbons, with lots of weight and clarity. smooth for days. Im glad im not the only one that doesn’t like m160’s…I was beginning to think I was crazy. To the OP, the 4038 is freaking awesome drum room/oh mic. They sound great on piano too. In all cases they present a very colored sound…and it’s a very beautiful color. I did a guitar overdub day at the original Bunker in Brooklyn. I kept putting an M160 on different amps and going "this is supposed to be special?" I'll take an M88 on a guitar amp any day of the week over the 160. |
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Post by smashlord on Aug 15, 2024 0:20:40 GMT -6
M160s are a very different beast in comparison to the Coles, which is more directly comparable to other ribbons like RCA, Royer’s, and AEAs. It’s dark, smooth and figure of 8.
M160s respond to transients like you would expect of a ribbon but their tone and pickup patterns are very different. They are particularly useful for rejecting bleed when you have multiple instruments playing in the same room within close proximity.
I do find them to be quite good on overheads, as well as front of kit. They can work well on an electric guitar can but for my tastes the pickup pattern is a little toooo tight for that most of the time. They are probably the best hi hat mic there is, they make excellent crotch mics, and sound particularly vibey on an acoustic.
The Cole’s are my favorite room mics and also one of the best mono overhead mics, IMO.
Having said that, I find the AEA R84 to be more versatile than both. To me, it’s sort of like the C414 of ribbons. It’s killer on drums, guitars, vocals, piano, etc
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Post by nick8801 on Aug 15, 2024 5:06:57 GMT -6
Not to throw another option in the mix, but I got an Extinct audio ribbon this year and it’s been incredible. Love it on guitars/bocals/horns/vocals. It’s killlller.
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Post by robschnapf on Aug 15, 2024 6:14:52 GMT -6
As you can see everybody has a different opinion so you kinda have to take it with a grain of salt and see what floats your boat.
with that being said, I Love the 160 on bth combos and a half stack.
Prefer them over a 121 any day.
I swap between a 160 and 57 depending.
Coles for overheads if your in a good room.
If you’re not then figure eight is documenting the bad room into your overheads.
Also as a 4038 alternative I really dig the Stager SR3.
That’s a cool mic.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,083 
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Post by ericn on Aug 15, 2024 6:27:28 GMT -6
M160s are a very different beast compare to the Cole’s, which is more directly comparable to other ribbons like RCA, Roger’s, and AEAs. It’s dark, smooth and figure of 8. M160s respond to transients like you would expect of a ribbon but their tone and pickup patterns are very different. They are particularly useful for rejecting bleed when you have multiple instruments playing in the same room within close proximity. I do find them to be quite good on overheads as well as front of kit. They can work well on a guitar can but for my tastes the pickup pattern is a little toooo tight for that most of the time. They are probably the best hi hat mix there is and are also excellent as crotch mics. The Cole’s are my favorite room mics and also one of the best mono overhead mics, IMO. Having said that, I find the AEA R84 to be more versatile than both. To me, it’s sort of like the C414 of ribbons. It’s killer on drums, guitars, vocals, piano, etc It is kind of funny how we group both condensers & Moving coil dynamics by size of diaphragm, but ribbons are all supposed to be similar, go figure. |
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Post by easyrider on Aug 15, 2024 7:53:01 GMT -6
I’m leaning towards the Coles using it as a Mono drum OH and experimenting with it on acoustic guitar in a dual mic setup with my other mics…
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Post by tonycamphd on Aug 15, 2024 8:05:20 GMT -6
I have 3 M160's and 2 samars, the M160's are dual ribbon and create an isolated from the room hyper cardioid pickup pattern, that is what its biggest strength is, also takes eq well, imagine that staircase on when the levee breaks with a figure 8 picking up almost equally on the back side of a figure 8(probably still been cool😂)
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Post by bikescene on Aug 15, 2024 8:18:53 GMT -6
I like the M160 on guitar amps. I need to bring it back about 3-4" on a cab while I can use a SM57, M201, M69, or M88 right on the grillcloth. Pointing it at the cap edge works for me, otherwise it gets either too bright or too dark in a hurry.
I like the M160 on drum overheads either as a spaced pair, or as a mono overhead over the shoulder from behind the drummer.
The M160 works pretty good on smaller acoustics. It's the only mic that can get a tone that I like out of my parlor acoustic.
I can usually find positive qualities in most of my mics. I can mic guitar cabs with the lowly Monoprice ribbon that was blown out a while back.
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Post by doubledog on Aug 15, 2024 8:26:05 GMT -6
my favorite ribbon for micing guitar cabs is an "NSonic NS-1" that I bought on eBay many many years ago. I had to fix an extremely saggy ribbon but no other mods and it works great. I don't use it for anything else though. It's the same as the Nady RSM-3, which is sort of a Royer 121 knock-off and even has the offset ribbon (which is why Nady and others were forced to discontinue it). Anyway, was about $100.
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Post by Tbone81 on Aug 15, 2024 8:28:39 GMT -6
Not to throw another option in the mix, but I got an Extinct audio ribbon this year and it’s been incredible. Love it on guitars/bocals/horns/vocals. It’s killlller. Those extinct audio mics look so cool. How do they sound? How do they compare to the 4038 etc? |
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Post by chessparov on Aug 15, 2024 8:53:50 GMT -6
Not to throw another option in the mix, but I got an Extinct audio ribbon this year and it’s been incredible. Love it on guitars/bocals/horns/vocals. It’s killlller. Sounds Dino-mite! Would you bet Jurassic on though on that? (Even bocals?)  Chris |
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Post by chessparov on Aug 15, 2024 8:59:36 GMT -6
Well, now you're just going to get a list from the peanut gallery of every ribbon ever made  . If this is one of your first/only ribbon purchases and you need something that's generally good at everything, I don't think the Beyer or the Coles are a good choice. I see them both as good choices for specific things. What are you going to be recording for the most part? Are you running a studio where you're going to have every sort of client coming in and out, or are you mostly recording yourself doing something specifically? If you're a drummer and mostly recording drums, the Coles might be an awesome choice. If you're going to do a lot of electric guitar, the Coles would be a really bad choice. ….guess I need both… Is there really ANY other answer? (Drops mic) |
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Post by smashlord on Aug 15, 2024 11:52:22 GMT -6
As you can see everybody has a different opinion so you kinda have to take it with a grain of salt and see what floats your boat. with that being said, I Love the 160 on bth combos and a half stack. Prefer them over a 121 any day. I swap between a 160 and 57 depending. Coles for overheads if your in a good room. If you’re not then figure eight is documenting the bad room into your overheads. Also as a 4038 alternative I really dig the Stager SR3. That’s a cool mic. I, too, find that the M160 will get a better result as sole mic on a cab vs. the R121. R121 always needs a friend for the top end unless you want to set it back 6"+, but then it may capture more ambience than you would like. If I was to pick one ribbon for guitar cab though, I think the R92 is an arguably a better option than both. It's more useful as a single mic than the R121 but will also play a supporting role really well like a 121 if you pair it with a 57 right up on the cab. It's also a cool vocal mic, which I wouldn't say about either the M160 or R121. I see the Coles and M160s as two different beasts for overheads. Coles are superior when you want the overheads to play a large role in the sound of the kit. The M160s excel when you want the OHs to really just pick up the cymbals and are otherwise relying on the close mics for the bulk of the sound. |
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Post by bradd on Aug 15, 2024 12:30:04 GMT -6
Agreed with the above comments. I really like the M160s on guitar cabinets but have never loved them on overheads. The Coles on overheads are amazing and you sometimes wonder if you need any close mics at all.
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Post by Pueblo Audio on Aug 15, 2024 14:15:09 GMT -6
Got it down to Beyer M160 or Cole’s 4038 Anyone with experience with both? Will use for Recording acoustic instruments and guitar cab..Mono drum OH etc… M160 is a great mix for specific situations. For myself, having one was good enough. 4038 is a more universal and fantastic mic. I could have 5 of them I could find a use and deploy all of them. If you can, buy a stereo pair to start. As with all ribbons, preamp quality becomes very important. Band-aids like active booster adapter thingies are a step in the wrong direction for sonics (however, for live stage work with high interference environments and >200’ cable runs they then can be helpful) |
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Post by bradd on Aug 15, 2024 15:09:39 GMT -6
I’m leaning towards the Coles using it as a Mono drum OH and experimenting with it on acoustic guitar in a dual mic setup with my other mics… I don't think you will be disappointed with that decision. |
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Post by nick8801 on Aug 15, 2024 16:04:10 GMT -6
Not to throw another option in the mix, but I got an Extinct audio ribbon this year and it’s been incredible. Love it on guitars/bocals/horns/vocals. It’s killlller. Those extinct audio mics look so cool. How do they sound? How do they compare to the 4038 etc? I don’t have a 4038 to compare it to, but I have had a chance to listen next to a Royer 121. The Extinct is definitely in that family but with a bigger low end and maybe a touch wider sounding overall. Kind of like if Royer had a baby with an R84. |
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Post by easyrider on Aug 16, 2024 6:36:22 GMT -6
Thanks for the input….looks like I’ll be getting a Cole’s 4038 first…and an M160 down the line…
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Post by paulcheeba on Aug 16, 2024 19:47:48 GMT -6
I have Coles, AEA, Beyer, Reslo Xaudia and old EMI ribbons that Stewart at Xaudia serviced.
4038’s are obviously the standard and have that unique ribbon sound that I feel you can use on everything for character stuff. They are incredible on drums for their classic cool colour.
Most of the AEA mics sound similar in a good way. Really warm and spacious so N8’s or R84’s can be used instead of an R44 so you can save a lot of money there. The KU5A is amazing for vocals in parallel or I have it on snare right now. R92 and N22’s are also excellent for closer mic techniques too. AEA have the ability òa great SoundCloud page well worth checking with great recordings.
The only ribbon’s I wish I owned are Stager SR2N’s as they sound superb, larger than life and much better than M160’s. They aren’t as aggressive as 4038’s but they just seem to have a strong enough sound to carry any weight.
I don’t see the point in HI-FI ribbons I’d rather just use a condenser or a dynamic. I have Manley Silvers for this kind of task.
Xaudia Reslo’s are great if you want an instant funk.
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Post by recordingengineer on Aug 16, 2024 22:44:10 GMT -6
The KU5A is amazing for vocals in parallel or I have it on snare right now. And how’s it doing there? I tend to put ribbons underneath the snare, but I’ve never put one on top; for safety reasons. |
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Post by paulcheeba on Aug 17, 2024 4:56:37 GMT -6
The KU5A is amazing for vocals in parallel or I have it on snare right now. And how’s it doing there? I tend to put ribbons underneath the snare, but I’ve never put one on top; for safety reasons. It sounds woody, retro and modern. I really like it as it blends well with all the other mics - stereo Soyuz 013 tube OH, AEA N8 mono OH. Stereo Heiserman H47 2 metres out, Neumann m49V room stereo. E22 toms, KM85 hat, Earthworks DM6 Kick, Horch Fet outside kick and 4038 out front. Which came together nicely. |
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Chris 
. If this is one of your first/only ribbon purchases and you need something that's generally good at everything, I don't think the Beyer or the Coles are a good choice. I see them both as good choices for specific things. What are you going to be recording for the most part? Are you running a studio where you're going to have every sort of client coming in and out, or are you mostly recording yourself doing something specifically? If you're a drummer and mostly recording drums, the Coles might be an awesome choice. If you're going to do a lot of electric guitar, the Coles would be a really bad choice. 
