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Post by easyrider on Aug 14, 2024 5:35:14 GMT -6
Got it down to Beyer M160 or Cole’s 4038
Anyone with experience with both?
Will use for Recording acoustic instruments and guitar cab..Mono drum OH etc…
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Post by doubledog on Aug 14, 2024 6:30:21 GMT -6
not sure how yo managed to post your entire browser history, but may want to clean that up (for your own sake)...
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Post by indiehouse on Aug 14, 2024 6:54:08 GMT -6
Yeesh, I got a virus just looking at that!
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Post by andersmv on Aug 14, 2024 7:47:23 GMT -6
Love the Coles for low drum overheads, there's literally nothing else out there like that. I would have a pair here just for that if I was recording more drums, just can't justify it. I also like them for doing really moody, dark piano sounds or adding some extreme weight to a piano part. That's probably the only two things I would ever use the Coles for, and they're worth it just for those niche situations. I would absolutely never use them on any loud sources pushing a lot of air like guitar amps. "Maybe" some specialized situations where it's a really low watt amp or you're backing it off the cab significantly. I've sat in two sessions where I watched someone blow the ribbon on a 4038, so I'm paranoid. The first time was someone grabbing it for a vocal part. Singer screamed into it and we literally heard a low frequency pop and that was it... It was like someone was rattling a mic around in a crappy shock mount. I'm glad I was just a fly on the wall that day, because it was at a really nice studio. Second time I was setting up a pair of Coles on a piano, something just sounded a little off and weird on one side. I put headphones on in the live room and started moving the mic around to hear what was going on, I could literally hear the ribbon rattling around in there. I told the engineer the ribbon was shot, he was surprised to hear that you had to be careful with the coles. They used them on guitars all the time... Again, I'm just paranoid about using them on anything pushing air now. Beyer M160 is definitely a unique sounding ribbon. It takes higher SPL's and air like a champ, you don't have to baby it at all. If you're going to be doing a lot of electric guitar, the Beyer would be the only choice out of the two IMO. Most people have a love/hate relationship with the M160, I tend to see people love it to death or don't care for it. I've never been a huge fan, one of my friends absolutely loves them and uses them on everything. Every time I get tracks from him to mix I know immediately what tracks were done with the Beyer . I don't want to dissuade you from the M160, it's a well loved staple. Find a way to demo one for a few days if you're never used one before. As far as ribbons and acoustic instruments, I've never been a fan of either of those mic. There's been a handful of times where I used a 4038 to add body to another mic on an acoustic guitar. I've never been a fan of the Coles on its own for acoustic instruments. If you've got a specific vintage lo-fi/vibey vision for some acoustic instruments, the Beyer knocks it out of the park for acoustic guitars. Instant 70's acoustic sound to punch through a busy mix. It would be a struggle to get it to sound pretty and realistic like you can with an old RCA/AEA. But that's just like, my opinion man.
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Post by bradd on Aug 14, 2024 8:03:27 GMT -6
I have pairs of both. The Coles are definitely more what you think a ribbon would sound like. Dark, smooth, and depth for days. They are my favorite overhead mics. However, for guitar amps and acoustic guitars, I would pick the M160. They are a much more focused sound, with more high end than the Coles. If you think of a painting, the Coles is going to fill up more of the canvas whereas the Beyer is more of a small dot. I love having both. That may not help you focus your decision.
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Post by notneeson on Aug 14, 2024 8:43:13 GMT -6
M160 for utility and rejection, Coles for OH and maximum color.
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Post by easyrider on Aug 14, 2024 9:23:20 GMT -6
Thanks
I’d buy both but I need to get just one first.
A Cole’s and an M88 or MK-012 might sound cool on an acoustic guitar?
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Post by mcirish on Aug 14, 2024 9:31:53 GMT -6
Why those specific ribbons? They are kind of apples to oranges. If you just want to get your feet wet and see what will work, might I suggest an Alder Audio H44? I've found it to be my favorite on a few sources. It's well built (ask me how I know....) and it sounds very good on a lot of sources. You could even get a pair for less than the cost of a 4038.
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Post by doubledog on Aug 14, 2024 9:51:12 GMT -6
The Samar AL95's are really nice (and versatile) as well. I've never used Coles or the M160. Most of my ribbons were cheap, but I did have an AEA R84 and a pair of Cascade Fatheads (with the Lundahl transformer option). Sold all of those. Now I have the AL95's ( which are clean and have extended highs), a Cascade Vinjet (Lundahl transformer), and a few cheap ribbons (which color in a totally different way - that I like). The AL95's are also the only ribbon (that I've tried so far) that I liked on drum overheads. everything else was too tubby.
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Post by Shadowk on Aug 14, 2024 9:57:18 GMT -6
Yeesh, I got a virus just looking at that! 😂🤣😆
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Post by easyrider on Aug 14, 2024 9:57:56 GMT -6
Thanks for the input
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Post by easyrider on Aug 14, 2024 10:00:35 GMT -6
Why those specific ribbons? They are kind of apples to oranges. If you just want to get your feet wet and see what will work, might I suggest an Alder Audio H44? I've found it to be my favorite on a few sources. It's well built (ask me how I know....) and it sounds very good on a lot of sources. You could even get a pair for less than the cost of a 4038. Pretty much just well known famous microphones…M160 Hendrix, Bonham…Coles seem to be lusted after on drums… Will take a look at that Alder Audio mic you suggested….first time I have heard of them.
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Post by easyrider on Aug 14, 2024 10:16:03 GMT -6
Royer R121 is an option…
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Post by andersmv on Aug 14, 2024 10:30:45 GMT -6
Well, now you're just going to get a list from the peanut gallery of every ribbon ever made . If this is one of your first/only ribbon purchases and you need something that's generally good at everything, I don't think the Beyer or the Coles are a good choice. I see them both as good choices for specific things. What are you going to be recording for the most part? Are you running a studio where you're going to have every sort of client coming in and out, or are you mostly recording yourself doing something specifically? If you're a drummer and mostly recording drums, the Coles might be an awesome choice. If you're going to do a lot of electric guitar, the Coles would be a really bad choice.
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Post by easyrider on Aug 14, 2024 10:45:50 GMT -6
That is not my history! They are ad, trackers and scripts I forgot to block running on this site..
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Post by easyrider on Aug 14, 2024 10:52:17 GMT -6
Well, now you're just going to get a list from the peanut gallery of every ribbon ever made . If this is one of your first/only ribbon purchases and you need something that's generally good at everything, I don't think the Beyer or the Coles are a good choice. I see them both as good choices for specific things. What are you going to be recording for the most part? Are you running a studio where you're going to have every sort of client coming in and out, or are you mostly recording yourself doing something specifically? If you're a drummer and mostly recording drums, the Coles might be an awesome choice. If you're going to do a lot of electric guitar, the Coles would be a really bad choice. I mainly record myself….I have a Drumkit and record guitar amps and acoustics….guess I need both…
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Post by basspro on Aug 14, 2024 11:17:31 GMT -6
If you CAN get both, it certainly wouldn't be terrible.
I have a pair of both and they get used all the time. As mentioned, the 160 is much more durable. When I first got mine, they were my only ribbons and I used them on drum overheads and really liked them. The pattern is pretty tight, so you just have to be mindful of that when placing them, otherwise you can end up with a bit of a hole in your stereo image.
Overall, the 160 will probably give you more bang for your buck, but the Coles are sooooo good when they're the right choice. I think either can be great on acoustic, depending on what you're going for.
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Post by ragan on Aug 14, 2024 12:19:20 GMT -6
I love the Coles. It’s a classic for a reason. But I think the Samar sound at least as good on OH here. And way, way cheaper.
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Post by ragan on Aug 14, 2024 12:20:14 GMT -6
I have a Samar VL37a that I really love. Lives on mono OH and acoustic guitar for me.
I expect it will be really great on electric guitar too, I just haven’t tried it yet.
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Post by ninworks on Aug 14, 2024 14:11:57 GMT -6
I don't record drums. Don't have the space for it. I record acoustic guitars, amps, and vocals and that's about it other than occasional hand-held percussion. I have both a Royer R121 and R-10. I recently got an AEA R84 but haven't had anything to use it on yet. I like the 121 on guitar cabs. Often using it combined with an e906 or SM57 depending upon which one fits into the track better. Even recorded acoustic guitar once using the back side of the 121 and got decent and definitely usable results. I have yet to find anything to use the R-10 for that the 121 didn't work better on, but I haven't tried it very many times yet. Can't wait to fire up the R84 on something.
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Post by carymiller on Aug 14, 2024 14:59:01 GMT -6
Got it down to Beyer M160 or Cole’s 4038 Anyone with experience with both? Will use for Recording acoustic instruments and guitar cab..Mono drum OH etc… I love both of those, but my favorite ribbon of all time is the Shure KSM353ED (Formerly the Crowley and Tripp El Diablo). The voicing of the Shure is just super realistic, and because the ribbon is made from rosewellite it cannot be overloaded and torn. It'll never break.
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Post by rowmat on Aug 14, 2024 15:56:46 GMT -6
Have a pair of both. They are very different. The Coles are amongst my top three mics. They take EQ very well and became a favourite vocal mic but can sound great on anything. Very smooth frequency response up to 15khz. The Coles has a much bigger sound than the Beyer M160.
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Post by kbsmoove on Aug 14, 2024 16:06:10 GMT -6
I have a pair of 160s and find them to be pretty meh. very colorful midrange that can be cool on guitar cabs, but otherwise i don't use them much. decent drum close mic. i don't get the hype on overheads - i prefer condensers here but if it HAS to be a ribbon then m160s are damn near my last choice, but i could see them working if i was going for a compact kinda vintage drum sound. sometimes its absolutely killer on guitar cabs, but i have a modded pair of m500s that i generally prefer on cabs.
i've only used one 4038 one time, as a front of kit mic and it sounded AWESOME and i can see it being super great on overheads. definitely more what i think of when i think of ribbons, with lots of weight and clarity. smooth for days.
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Post by Tbone81 on Aug 14, 2024 16:57:53 GMT -6
I have a pair of 160s and find them to be pretty meh. very colorful midrange that can be cool on guitar cabs, but otherwise i don't use them much. decent drum close mic. i don't get the hype on overheads - i prefer condensers here but if it HAS to be a ribbon then m160s are damn near my last choice, but i could see them working if i was going for a compact kinda vintage drum sound. sometimes its absolutely killer on guitar cabs, but i have a modded pair of m500s that i generally prefer on cabs. i've only used one 4038 one time, as a front of kit mic and it sounded AWESOME and i can see it being super great on overheads. definitely more what i think of when i think of ribbons, with lots of weight and clarity. smooth for days. Im glad im not the only one that doesn’t like m160’s…I was beginning to think I was crazy. To the OP, the 4038 is freaking awesome drum room/oh mic. They sound great on piano too. In all cases they present a very colored sound…and it’s a very beautiful color.
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Post by Oneiro on Aug 14, 2024 17:00:57 GMT -6
Tough decision. Both very useful. I favor the 4038 simply because I love how it sounds on everything, though I don't think it can take the same SPL as the M160.
The M160 is a good utility mic and it often resolves some tough situations, like banjo or annoyingly complex guitar tones. I don't know that I ever love it like I do the Coles, but I find myself using it just as often.
If you're considering other stuff, another option is the Shure KSM353 or 313. Very underrated ribbon mics and extremely tough - you can use them anywhere.
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