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Post by gravesnumber9 on Aug 8, 2024 14:38:41 GMT -6
I know Johnkenn will be all over this as a big Nova fan. Anyway, there was a big review in TapeOp this issue about Nova but it didn't really go into as much depth as I would have hoped on what makes it different from Sonarworks. I mean, I know it's got its own hardware that goes with it and proprietary measurement tools, but how different can it really be? The advocates (like John) say "a lot!!!" but I'm having trouble sifting through the marketing spin. EDIT: I guess I'm talking about the optimizer tool. Obviously the monitor controller is different.
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Post by kcatthedog on Aug 8, 2024 15:13:45 GMT -6
I think Trinnov controls for time domain discrepancies and SW doesn’t. SW is really just controlling for frequency.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Aug 8, 2024 15:14:57 GMT -6
I think Trinnov controls for time domain discrepancies and SW doesn’t. SW is really just controlling for frequency. Just finished the long Trinnov thread and that seems to be the big one. I have no need for a monitor controller and I'm happy with my DA conversion so it's kinda like... geez, does time domain correction really make a $3500 difference?
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Post by kcatthedog on Aug 8, 2024 15:18:03 GMT -6
If you think of any before treatment waterfall plot you have seen and how both frequency and time vary, I think correcting both is critical, but I don’t understand why Trinov is so expensive ?
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 8, 2024 16:30:41 GMT -6
I think Trinnov controls for time domain discrepancies and SW doesn’t. SW is really just controlling for frequency. Just finished the long Trinnov thread and that seems to be the big one. I have no need for a monitor controller and I'm happy with my DA conversion so it's kinda like... geez, does time domain correction really make a $3500 difference? I’ve not used the nova, but someone that has said it was kind of a step down from the st-2. I know it doesn’t have as many features. That being said, They said they are going to support the ST two until 2030. You could probably get one of those for around 2500 all in.
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Post by sam on Aug 8, 2024 17:31:42 GMT -6
Someone sell me on this thing because I can't find a steady opinion anywhere aside from my mastering engineer (whom I love dearly I should add)
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 8, 2024 17:38:40 GMT -6
Someone sell me on this thing because I can't find a steady opinion anywhere aside from my mastering engineer (whom I love dearly I should add) I've not spoken to a single person that had one that didn't rave about it.
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Post by indiehouse on Aug 8, 2024 18:30:37 GMT -6
I had one and it made a dramatic difference. Especially in the stereo field. It really pulled things together and solidified the center image. It was crazy. I didn’t realize just how skewed things were.
I moved it on because it was a lot of money. And I was worried about it having older DA conversion. And latency.
I have a pair of D&D 8C’s now, which have their own room correction. But I still think about the Trinnov often.
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Post by wiz on Aug 8, 2024 18:49:36 GMT -6
I had one and it made a dramatic difference. Especially in the stereo field. It really pulled things together and solidified the center image. It was crazy. I didn’t realize just how skewed things were. I moved it on because it was a lot of money. And I was worried about it having older DA conversion. And latency. I have a pair of D&D 8C’s now, which have their own room correction. But I still think about the Trinnov often. Hey Idie did you use sound works or ARC in that room prior to the Trinnov...and if so.. what was the comparison? cheers Wiz
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 8, 2024 19:35:40 GMT -6
wiz It's kind of a similar thing to the AxeFX. It's hard to quantify, but as you experienced with the Axe - it's just better. If you listened to Sonarworks, you'd think it sounds great. Then you listen to Axe and it sounds better.
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Post by russellcreekps on Aug 8, 2024 19:37:50 GMT -6
I’d like a Trinnov someday, but I will say, the ARC Studio was a night and day situation for me. I think it’s a ridiculously great deal for what it is!
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,946
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Post by ericn on Aug 8, 2024 19:53:25 GMT -6
I don’t know the exact details but the primary difference is how they approach phase issues. The only disappointment I have heard with Trinnov is with some fairly esoteric audiophile speakers where the phase response is intentional & dipoles and bipoles where position and phase can be tricky.
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Post by indiehouse on Aug 8, 2024 21:10:21 GMT -6
I had one and it made a dramatic difference. Especially in the stereo field. It really pulled things together and solidified the center image. It was crazy. I didn’t realize just how skewed things were. I moved it on because it was a lot of money. And I was worried about it having older DA conversion. And latency. I have a pair of D&D 8C’s now, which have their own room correction. But I still think about the Trinnov often. Hey Idie did you use sound works or ARC in that room prior to the Trinnov...and if so.. what was the comparison? cheers Wiz Yes, I’ve had Sonarworks and Dirac. Both of which I got after the Trinnov. It’s been a while, but I remember preferring Trinnov. It’s just better. But given the price difference, it ought to be better. I also remember having to contact support for someone to help me set it up. Lots of parameters. I had to have a separate monitor and coordinate with someone in France to connect with for the setup. That was a bit of a turn-off.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,946
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Post by ericn on Aug 8, 2024 21:24:01 GMT -6
Hey Idie did you use sound works or ARC in that room prior to the Trinnov...and if so.. what was the comparison? cheers Wiz Yes, I’ve had Sonarworks and Dirac. Both of which I got after the Trinnov. It’s been a while, but I remember preferring Trinnov. It’s just better. But given the price difference, it ought to be better. I also remember having to contact support for someone to help me set it up. Lots of parameters. I had to have a separate monitor and coordinate with someone in France to connect with for the setup. That was a bit of a turn-off. Man I’m this is one of those where “better” needs to be quantified in my room with my speakers & my ears. Blanket statements are dangerousl I have had at least 20 different speakers in this current room and probably at least 1/2 of those in my prior room with Dirac, it works when it works. About 1/3 of the time I can to my ears and SMART get their with a pair of BSS Blu80’s manually. I’ll say the more I play Dirac deals with Bi & Di poles better. Neither really understands horns, some complex o overs confuse all of them. We don’t live in a world of absolutes lots of gray areas, & unfortunately none of these correction platforms were designed with input from the speaker designers. In fact that is my #1 complaint often each and everyone of them undoes what the designer was trying to do!
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Post by kcatthedog on Aug 9, 2024 5:01:17 GMT -6
One thing is , SW does not recommend taking measurements in a different plane , ARC does, so theoretically ARC may better differentiate time domain differences , whereas Trinov does for sure.
I have only used SW and have never kept it.
But I think , Trinov would always sound best/first with Arc and SW being a very close 2nd and 3rd .
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Post by christophert on Aug 9, 2024 6:53:07 GMT -6
I had one and it made a dramatic difference. Especially in the stereo field. It really pulled things together and solidified the center image. It was crazy. I didn’t realize just how skewed things were. I moved it on because it was a lot of money. And I was worried about it having older DA conversion. And latency. I have a pair of D&D 8C’s now, which have their own room correction. But I still think about the Trinnov often. My Nova took the D&D 8cs to the next level - it blew me away how much detail improved, and my room is properly designed (although not perfect)
The Nova will obviously do different things in different rooms
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Aug 9, 2024 7:35:31 GMT -6
I think I posted a couple of comments in the bigger thread, but the Nova was completely worth the cost (+mic bundle) for my room which is unfortunately smaller than I'd prefer (details in the Studio Build forum). My choices after building it as it was designed were to install two subs in the front corners or room correction. I've had it for about six months and would not go back to Sonarworks, which is still a good solution, IMHO. The time/phase correction of the Nova is spot on and although I knew my floor was sloped slightly, meaning that my right monitor is just slightly shorter than the left the Nova measures and corrects for all of that. I ended up bumping the 50/60 range a db or so for taste but everything translates so well with the Nova.
I was hesitant about the setup and having anything between my converters (Burl B80) and monitor controller (B26) but it's transparent as it should be. I would not run a Nova if I had to use it as the main monitor controller though. Just not compelling in that duty to my setup.
My only complaints are that the software UI/UX sucks. And, it never connects the first time you launch the app. I have to open it, let it start spinning to connect, then quit and reopen it. Once it connects on the second run it always comes up muted and at -60db. So I have to click 60 times on the up arrow to get it to 0db where it's out of the way. Seems the app ignores these settings when saved in a preset. At this point it's part of my studio startup routine but is still a total pain in the ass annoyance.
The translation, detail and imaging is amazing though.
I only run stereo so keep in mind that if you run more than two channels there's additional licensing for more outputs that you have to pay for. You get two channels with the Nova purchase. I have no idea what that cost is though for additional outputs.
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Post by indiehouse on Aug 9, 2024 9:36:58 GMT -6
I had one and it made a dramatic difference. Especially in the stereo field. It really pulled things together and solidified the center image. It was crazy. I didn’t realize just how skewed things were. I moved it on because it was a lot of money. And I was worried about it having older DA conversion. And latency. I have a pair of D&D 8C’s now, which have their own room correction. But I still think about the Trinnov often. My Nova took the D&D 8cs to the next level - it blew me away how much detail improved, and my room is properly designed (although not perfect)
The Nova will obviously do different things in different rooms
Dang it. See, I’ve heard the opposite, that Trinnov was unnecessary with the 8C’s.
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 9, 2024 13:37:55 GMT -6
My Nova took the D&D 8cs to the next level - it blew me away how much detail improved, and my room is properly designed (although not perfect)
The Nova will obviously do different things in different rooms
Dang it. See, I’ve heard the opposite, that Trinnov was unnecessary with the 8C’s. Ohhhhh noooo...you don't get to do the music and not spend all the money.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Aug 9, 2024 14:01:53 GMT -6
It's this idea of "mixing wrong" to put it in Johnkenn 's words that bothers me. I hate having to do a mental calculation to know that "yeah, there's no kick drum in here but it'll sound great out there" or whatever. I get it... learn the speakers and the room. But don't you guys ever leave your mix room? I hear music all over the place even in my own home. There's my hi-fi setup on my TV, my record player, my airpods, and my car just to name a few. And that doesn't even count going to see at least 6 - 8 live shows per week and all kinds of other things. How much resetting can one set of ears do??? Anyway, my mixes are getting more and more accurate in terms of translation, but it would be so much more fun if what sounded awesome in my mix room sounded awesome everywhere else.
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Post by indiehouse on Aug 9, 2024 14:56:27 GMT -6
Another thing that bugged me about the Trinnov was that it is just a computer with DA. I think at the time I had a pretty expensive, high end stereo DA that was made useless by the Trinnov DA, which was arguably much older and probably not as good. And it was all housed in a computer. With computing processing getting exponentially faster, did it really make sense that I needed a 3500 computer to run a piece of room correction software? I mean, I get the reasons why it makes sense that it's external. And I get that same argument could be made for any external digital processor, including my 8C's. That was just something that bugged me. Doesn't mean that the Trinnov was any less impressive, though.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Aug 9, 2024 15:02:51 GMT -6
Another thing that bugged me about the Trinnov was that it is just a computer with DA. I think at the time I had a pretty expensive, high end stereo DA that was made useless by the Trinnov DA, which was arguably much older and probably not as good. And it was all housed in a computer. With computing processing getting exponentially faster, did it really make sense that I needed a 3500 computer to run a piece of room correction software? I mean, I get the reasons why it makes sense that it's external. And I get that same argument could be made for any external digital processor, including my 8C's. That was just something that bugged me. Doesn't mean that the Trinnov was any less impressive, though. That's a hangup for me as well. $3500 buys you a lot of computing power these days.
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Post by sam on Aug 9, 2024 15:27:58 GMT -6
I think the thing I find hard to swallow is owing a pair of speakers that are already almost $10k new, and feeling like I "need" to correct them. It feels a touch backwards to me. That said I have been definitely struggling a bit since making the switch from NS10s to the ATCs and I can't tell what is so damn different.
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Post by indiehouse on Aug 9, 2024 15:48:45 GMT -6
I think the thing I find hard to swallow is owing a pair of speakers that are already almost $10k new, and feeling like I "need" to correct them. It feels a touch backwards to me. That said I have been definitely struggling a bit since making the switch from NS10s to the ATCs and I can't tell what is so damn different. Well, it’s not the speakers you are correcting….
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Post by indiehouse on Aug 9, 2024 15:49:11 GMT -6
…it’s your room you are correcting.
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