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Post by moeses on Aug 6, 2024 14:48:11 GMT -6
Yes, there are lots of things better than an sm7 for rap vox well, I see you have spoken, but I said "sm7 and an api", but i guess I better take your word on this oh great 6 post moeses down from the mountain purple site guy, cant wait to see your next 4 commandments 😂 Sorry if you feel disrespected Also sorry if you think that there is nothing better than an sm7 because it's rap music |
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Post by bossanova on Aug 6, 2024 15:44:07 GMT -6
I don't rap but I've recorded a fair amount of spoken word and sung vocals, and my 58 has gotten more use than the SM7B over the long run here.
I keep wanting to like the SM7B on my voice, and it never quite gets there without a lot of help, to the point where I'd just as soon use a different mic. I'm not a screamer or a shouter, so maybe it's a better fit there.
I would go with the 87 as an all-rounder all day. There are plenty of excellent sounding rap vocals from the 90s and 2000s that were tracked with one, and it will only improve as your space gets better treated.
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Post by Tbone81 on Aug 6, 2024 15:46:36 GMT -6
The SM7 is the universal affordable mic for talk, vocals and rap, there is a reason it was so universally recommended by professionals during the pandemic. I've been a rap artist for 25 years I've been in more studios than I can count recorded on so many microphones I've never been in a situation where the sm7 was best choice for a rap vocal. Sm 57/58? Surprisingly, yes. But never an sm7. It is absolutely a myth I blame on Tony Belmont for starting on the message boards back in the day that this is the best mic for rap vocals I gotta agree. I like the sm7, a lot. It’s a great mic. But I’m much more likely to use it in a dense rock mix. For modern Hip Hop the vocals need to be crispy and present. And they’re typically mixed so much more forward in the mix, vs Rock vocals that tend to be blended (or buried) down more evenly with the rest of the instruments. |
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Post by Tbone81 on Aug 6, 2024 15:48:32 GMT -6
I don't rap but I've recorded a fair amount of spoken word and sung vocals, and my 58 has gotten more use than the SM7B over the long run here. I keep wanting to like the SM7B on my voice, and it never quite gets there without a lot of help, to the point where I'd just as soon use a different mic. I'm not a screamer or a shouter, so maybe it's a better fit there. Im so used to hearing 58’s through shitty PA’s that I always forget how good they can sound on vocals through a nice preamp. |
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Post by bossanova on Aug 6, 2024 16:48:40 GMT -6
Hip hop in the post YouTube era also seems particularly swayed by fashion (much like podcasting gear) so you have a lot of people touting the expensive 800g-1073-CL1B chain.
From what I know, back in the 90s major label rap albums used the standard workhorse gear of the day. 87s, 414s, 1073s, 1176s, LA-2a, and DBX compressors in some of the budget situations. Those chains should still stand up to anything today. I think the biggest difference in today's hip hop vocals comes from FX and processing ITB.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 6, 2024 16:57:14 GMT -6
The SM7 is the universal affordable mic for talk, vocals and rap, there is a reason it was so universally recommended by professionals during the pandemic. I've been a rap artist for 25 years I've been in more studios than I can count recorded on so many microphones I've never been in a situation where the sm7 was best choice for a rap vocal. Sm 57/58? Surprisingly, yes. But never an sm7. It is absolutely a myth I blame on Tony Belmont for starting on the message boards back in the day that this is the best mic for rap vocals I’m going to admit a dirty little secret, for years I wasn’t a fan of the SM7B, thought it was all about that smooth deep radio voice. I had a couple of Radio Station clients who swore by them for talkshows that managed to get rid of the mud but I wasn’t a fan. Then a client who was the original TD for Prarie Home Companion, he was doing mostly remote recording but was setting up a studio. He had access to decent mics but his go to vocal mic were SM7b’s. Didn’t understand why so I asked. The thing about the SM7 is if you take the time EQ it get the right distance it’s a damn clear mic. There isn’t one magic EQ setting you have to dial it in for the voice, most of the time you can get their or damn close with the switches ( why radio guys love it). I don’t know why Tony Belmont pushes it, hell Tony and I seldom agree, but I’ll tell you a secret, no body is pushing SM7 to make money, even with the deepest off sheet discount Shure offered My rep made more on SM7’s than we did & there was no way Tony would get even close to our deal, I’ll bet Tony would have made more if he bought Shure from our wholesale division. So if a gearpimp is pushing the SM7 it has nothing to do with him making money. |
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Post by moeses on Aug 6, 2024 17:22:03 GMT -6
I don't think for a minute he said it to make money
I'm also Shure he was trying to be helpful to all of the up and coming artists trying to spend $$$$ when they were just starting
I also know there's a ton of mics I would reach for before an Sm7b
The new chandler type L for example. You have the a voicing which I think is great for a more modern sounding hip hop vocal and the b voicing which sounds great for a gritty boom bap sound
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Post by tonycamphd on Aug 6, 2024 17:46:25 GMT -6
well, I see you have spoken, but I said "sm7 and an api", but i guess I better take your word on this oh great 6 post moeses down from the mountain purple site guy, cant wait to see your next 4 commandments 😂 Sorry if you feel disrespected Also sorry if you think that there is nothing better than an sm7 because it's rap music "you've been a rap artist for 25 years" 🫡Disrespect is felt when you have consideration for the person attempting to disrespect you, I feel nothing. The sm7 without question and a driven api pre(probably) are the 2 most commonly employed mic/pre combinations to be used for tracking rap vox in the history of recording rap  |
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Post by moeses on Aug 6, 2024 17:53:16 GMT -6
McDonald's is the most popular restaurant in the world
It doesn't mean it's the best
You went directly to being disrespectful
Not sure what your stake is in the sm7 but you definitely took it personal
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Post by bossanova on Aug 6, 2024 17:56:11 GMT -6
Sorry if you feel disrespected Also sorry if you think that there is nothing better than an sm7 because it's rap music "you've been a rap artist for 25 years" 🫡Disrespect is felt when you have consideration for the person attempting to disrespect you, I feel nothing. The sm7 without question and a driven api pre(probably) are the 2 most commonly employed mic/pre combinations to be used for tracking rap vox in the history of recording rap View Attachment[Rephrased] Separate issue…AI is far from a reliable source for those statistics. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Aug 6, 2024 18:00:59 GMT -6
your flippant one line response to my opinion is what was disrespectful pal, the fact is many including Michael jackson and James Hetfield used the SM7 and Bono and mick jagger used sm58's, why did they do that? because they were comfortable with the mic, what makes you think there aren't scores of rappers who feel the same about the sm7? The sm7 and api combo when driven hard are super compressed and aggressive sounding, a quality that most rap enjoys in my 40 years of experience, and to put a final cherry on the cake you made, GOOGLE says it's the most used rap mic in history, so instead of one line dismissing everyone maybe you should go talk to them
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Post by Tbone81 on Aug 6, 2024 18:05:30 GMT -6
Hip hop in the post YouTube era also seems particularly swayed by fashion (much like podcasting gear) so you have a lot of people touting the expensive 800g-1073-CL1B chain. From what I know, back in the 90s major label rap albums used the standard workhorse gear of the day. 87s, 414s, 1073s, 1176s, LA-2a, and DBX compressors in some of the budget situations. Those chains should still stand up to anything today. I think the biggest difference in today's hip hop vocals comes from FX and processing ITB. Hip Hop in the late 90’s and early 2000’s was much the same. Most people I know were using 87’s. And I know lots of guys who bought Avalon 737’s because that was the mic pre for rap. Some AE’s didn’t even use them, they just had them in the rack so that clients knew they were “legit” hip hop producers. As to what was actually used across all the classic 90’s albums…IDK… probably was the standard 1073, 1176, etc etc |
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Post by bossanova on Aug 6, 2024 18:06:23 GMT -6
your flippant one line response to my opinion is what was disrespectful pal, the fact is many including Michael jackson and James Hetfield used the SM7 and Bono and mick jagger used sm58's, why did they do that? because they were comfortable with the mic, what makes you think there aren't scores of rappers who feel the same about the sm7? The sm7 and api combo when driven hard are super compressed and aggressive sounding, a quality that most rap enjoys in my 40 years of experience, and to put a final cherry on the cake you made, GOOGLE says it's the most used rap mic in history, so instead of one line dismissing everyone maybe you should go talk to them I'm trying to be polite here, but both Google's raw search results and especially Google AI are filled with misinformation if just taken at face value. This is a puzzling hill to die on. |
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Post by moeses on Aug 6, 2024 18:11:29 GMT -6
Ok.
The sm7 is a great mic.
If I'm going to use a dynamic, I will choose an sm57 or 58 first as I think there's something magical that can happen with an expressive rapper being comfortable and having the mic fit comfortably in their hand while recording
Especially in an open room
I have never been in a situation where the Sm7b would be the first, second or third choice
If it's someone's mic, I think they can absolutely make great music with it
I always spent too much time trying to make it sound good.
If it wouldn't be your top choice for any male vocalist in your studio, it shouldn't be your top choice for a rapper
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Post by tonycamphd on Aug 6, 2024 18:13:33 GMT -6
your flippant one line response to my opinion is what was disrespectful pal, the fact is many including Michael jackson and James Hetfield used the SM7 and Bono and mick jagger used sm58's, why did they do that? because they were comfortable with the mic, what makes you think there aren't scores of rappers who feel the same about the sm7? The sm7 and api combo when driven hard are super compressed and aggressive sounding, a quality that most rap enjoys in my 40 years of experience, and to put a final cherry on the cake you made, GOOGLE says it's the most used rap mic in history, so instead of one line dismissing everyone maybe you should go talk to them I'm trying to be polite here, but both Google's raw search results and especially Google AI are filled with misinformation if just taken at face value. This is a puzzling hill to die on. Not dying on any hill bro, I was being helpful offering a simple inexpensive staple solution to the OP, believe me or don't, believe google or don't, i really don't care, carry on |
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Post by moeses on Aug 6, 2024 18:18:37 GMT -6
Luken
I've got the cm800t and it's a good mic for sure
I have a u87t from Stam on the way in a few weeks
I'm guessing it might kick the cm800t out
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 6, 2024 18:33:31 GMT -6
IMHO You both are a being disrespectful to an extent, honestly I tried add an intelligent argument based on experience but guys can we all be adults? I really don’t want to see JK have to ban anyone. This isn’t GS.
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Post by bossanova on Aug 6, 2024 18:47:09 GMT -6
I've been a rap artist for 25 years I've been in more studios than I can count recorded on so many microphones I've never been in a situation where the sm7 was best choice for a rap vocal. Sm 57/58? Surprisingly, yes. But never an sm7. It is absolutely a myth I blame on Tony Belmont for starting on the message boards back in the day that this is the best mic for rap vocals I’m going to admit a dirty little secret, for years I wasn’t a fan of the SM7B, thought it was all about that smooth deep radio voice. I had a couple of Radio Station clients who swore by them for talkshows that managed to get rid of the mud but I wasn’t a fan. Then a client who was the original TD for Prarie Home Companion, he was doing mostly remote recording but was setting up a studio. He had access to decent mics but his go to vocal mic were SM7b’s. Didn’t understand why so I asked. The thing about the SM7 is if you take the time EQ it get the right distance it’s a damn clear mic. There isn’t one magic EQ setting you have to dial it in for the voice, most of the time you can get their or damn close with the switches ( why radio guys love it). I don’t know why Tony Belmont pushes it, hell Tony and I seldom agree, but I’ll tell you a secret, no body is pushing SM7 to make money, even with the deepest off sheet discount Shure offered My rep made more on SM7’s than we did & there was no way Tony would get even close to our deal, I’ll bet Tony would have made more if he bought Shure from our wholesale division. So if a gearpimp is pushing the SM7 it has nothing to do with him making money. Getting back on track, I’ve heard a similar story about the VO/ADR booths at one of the networks (CBS maybe?) being all SM7s. |
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Post by moeses on Aug 6, 2024 18:53:19 GMT -6
IMHO You both are a being disrespectful to an extent, honestly I tried add an intelligent argument based on experience but guys can we all be adults? I really don’t want to see JK have to ban anyone. This isn’t GS. Definitely was not trying to be disrespectful towards you and hope you didn't take my reply as such And it does get a little old with the "all you need for rap is a $300 mic" posts and it always seems to me a little racially tinged I saw the haha's Jim Williams post on here got back when where he said his favorite rappers were dead ones So there is definitely some sensitivity on my part on the topic |
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Post by antipodesjosh on Aug 6, 2024 19:08:27 GMT -6
You could try Lauten Audio
The Eden has three switchable flavours and seems popular online in hip hop/R&B circles. I haven’t used one myself.
And grab an LS208 if the artist wants to track with the monitors cranked up, or hand-held.
The two of them together should come in under 4 bags o’ sand.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 6, 2024 19:12:10 GMT -6
IMHO You both are a being disrespectful to an extent, honestly I tried add an intelligent argument based on experience but guys can we all be adults? I really don’t want to see JK have to ban anyone. This isn’t GS. Definitely was not trying to be disrespectful towards you and hope you didn't take my reply as such And it does get a little old with the "all you need for rap is a $300 mic" posts and it always seems to me a little racially tinged I saw the haha's Jim Williams post on here got back when where he said his favorite rappers were dead ones So there is definitely some sensitivity on my part on the topic I didn’t feel any towards me, but between you & Tony. I don’t feel the SM7B recommendation is racist, if you take a look at all the top flight artists of all races and genres who were using SM7’s during the pandemic, our latest Billionaire Bruce Springsteen was using one ! The reason? Well everyone was asking their AE, FOH or monitor guy for a simple set up they couldn’t F@&K up and where position didn’t matter, SM7 fits that bill! As for how that JW thread went, well I apologize, for all of us. Like I said rap isn’t my thing, neither is Bro Country or Opera so definitely not racist. While not my personal thing I have had many clients and friends who are rappers I respect them as much as anyone on this or any forum. I also don’t like simply recommending an expensive solution that “ might “ work, their are plenty of expensive mics that work great on many rappers, but honestly if a 87 isn’t working for someone on any type of voice my first thought is it isn’t the mic. I’m not even a 87 fan, honestly it works on most but if I put up an 87 I usually find myself thinking something else would be better ( way to many mic demos and shoot outs in my gear pimp days. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 6, 2024 19:13:47 GMT -6
I’m going to admit a dirty little secret, for years I wasn’t a fan of the SM7B, thought it was all about that smooth deep radio voice. I had a couple of Radio Station clients who swore by them for talkshows that managed to get rid of the mud but I wasn’t a fan. Then a client who was the original TD for Prarie Home Companion, he was doing mostly remote recording but was setting up a studio. He had access to decent mics but his go to vocal mic were SM7b’s. Didn’t understand why so I asked. The thing about the SM7 is if you take the time EQ it get the right distance it’s a damn clear mic. There isn’t one magic EQ setting you have to dial it in for the voice, most of the time you can get their or damn close with the switches ( why radio guys love it). I don’t know why Tony Belmont pushes it, hell Tony and I seldom agree, but I’ll tell you a secret, no body is pushing SM7 to make money, even with the deepest off sheet discount Shure offered My rep made more on SM7’s than we did & there was no way Tony would get even close to our deal, I’ll bet Tony would have made more if he bought Shure from our wholesale division. So if a gearpimp is pushing the SM7 it has nothing to do with him making money. Getting back on track, I’ve heard a similar story about the VO/ADR booths at one of the networks (CBS maybe?) being all SM7s. Would not suprise me SM7’s or RE20’s are the defacto broadcast mics. |
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Post by bgrotto on Aug 6, 2024 19:35:24 GMT -6
I've been a rap artist for 25 years I've been in more studios than I can count recorded on so many microphones I've never been in a situation where the sm7 was best choice for a rap vocal. Sm 57/58? Surprisingly, yes. But never an sm7. It is absolutely a myth I blame on Tony Belmont for starting on the message boards back in the day that this is the best mic for rap vocals I’m going to admit a dirty little secret, for years I wasn’t a fan of the SM7B, thought it was all about that smooth deep radio voice. I had a couple of Radio Station clients who swore by them for talkshows that managed to get rid of the mud but I wasn’t a fan. Then a client who was the original TD for Prarie Home Companion, he was doing mostly remote recording but was setting up a studio. He had access to decent mics but his go to vocal mic were SM7b’s. Didn’t understand why so I asked. The thing about the SM7 is if you take the time EQ it get the right distance it’s a damn clear mic. There isn’t one magic EQ setting you have to dial it in for the voice, most of the time you can get their or damn close with the switches ( why radio guys love it). I don’t know why Tony Belmont pushes it, hell Tony and I seldom agree, but I’ll tell you a secret, no body is pushing SM7 to make money, even with the deepest off sheet discount Shure offered My rep made more on SM7’s than we did & there was no way Tony would get even close to our deal, I’ll bet Tony would have made more if he bought Shure from our wholesale division. So if a gearpimp is pushing the SM7 it has nothing to do with him making money. I wonder if pushing the SM7b was less about whatever measly margins come from selling that really useless mic, and more about selling a quiet, high-gain preamp to amplify the stupid thing. |
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Post by bgrotto on Aug 6, 2024 19:37:29 GMT -6
Quick note to say the SM7 is a much, MUCH different mic from the SM7b. The latter is rarely useful outside tracking Cookie Monster metal or like, 90s-era butt rock Nickelback vocals. The former is kinda awesome.
...but not as good as my SM5b, which sounds absolutely heavenly on the right man 😎
(wouldn't use it on rap, tho)
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 6, 2024 19:55:24 GMT -6
I’m going to admit a dirty little secret, for years I wasn’t a fan of the SM7B, thought it was all about that smooth deep radio voice. I had a couple of Radio Station clients who swore by them for talkshows that managed to get rid of the mud but I wasn’t a fan. Then a client who was the original TD for Prarie Home Companion, he was doing mostly remote recording but was setting up a studio. He had access to decent mics but his go to vocal mic were SM7b’s. Didn’t understand why so I asked. The thing about the SM7 is if you take the time EQ it get the right distance it’s a damn clear mic. There isn’t one magic EQ setting you have to dial it in for the voice, most of the time you can get their or damn close with the switches ( why radio guys love it). I don’t know why Tony Belmont pushes it, hell Tony and I seldom agree, but I’ll tell you a secret, no body is pushing SM7 to make money, even with the deepest off sheet discount Shure offered My rep made more on SM7’s than we did & there was no way Tony would get even close to our deal, I’ll bet Tony would have made more if he bought Shure from our wholesale division. So if a gearpimp is pushing the SM7 it has nothing to do with him making money. I wonder if pushing the SM7b was less about whatever measly margins come from selling that really useless mic, and more about selling a quiet, high-gain preamp to amplify the stupid thing. Those who are still in the game tell me most who buy an SM7 use it with the pre built into the interface. I think it’s a combination of MJ legend & it’s hard to truly screw up completely. |
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