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Post by niklas1073 on Aug 5, 2024 11:29:19 GMT -6
I took a quick spin thru your raw files. I am not in the studio now so i just used a bt speaker but… i don’t see an issue with the mic. I would start by giving some more distance to the mic, it initially sounds like there could be too much proximity effect going on. Ate you leaving enough headroom on the 1073? A tracking comp like 1176 could help with that in your fave aggression while still retaining the “space”. You can experiment the uad unison before investing in any gear and that will hive u sn idea. I would probably track it with an la2a comp hitting some 3-5db gr. EDIT: @grevesnumber9 😃 yeah I think we picked up on that proximity simultainiously Thank you. Yes i also think they are okay but wouldn't a 251 or c800g be more "mix-ready" in my case? I have to do very much to achieve to sound my clients want. Other recordings I have (recorded with a c800g f.e.) are way easier to mix and i need less much time to get a good result. A tracking comp will also follow at some point, but i think there are a few things i would improve first (room, monitors, etc). After that I might buy a Distressor or Tla 100a. If a c800g brings u closer to what u are looking for then by all means you have answered your own question. See if you can take home one and run a session with it and see if that solves the missing links |
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Post by poppaflavor on Aug 5, 2024 11:55:55 GMT -6
Thank you. Yes i also think they are okay but wouldn't a 251 or c800g be more "mix-ready" in my case? I have to do very much to achieve to sound my clients want. Other recordings I have (recorded with a c800g f.e.) are way easier to mix and i need less much time to get a good result. A tracking comp will also follow at some point, but i think there are a few things i would improve first (room, monitors, etc). After that I might buy a Distressor or Tla 100a. I don't think I saw it on your list, but based on your descriptions, even though you're not keen on the 87ai you may want to consider checking out the SA-87T. stamaudio.com/shop/microphones/sa-87t-condenser-microphone/Not sure where you're located, but I think that in many regions Stam has a trial or loaner mic that they can send to get some hands-on experience with it. You might want to email him to find out if there's one available to be shipped to your area. It's basically an '87 but with a tube, and it's got a lovely high lift without sizzly harshness. In terms of tone, I'm not sure what to compare it to, but I feel that it's tilted a little bit more towards higher frequency harmonics than the NLP elam 251 that I have. |
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Post by doubledog on Aug 5, 2024 12:04:10 GMT -6
luckily i bought it at an auction for 1500€ so i could sell it with a little profit. But yes the best would be to keep it even if its just to attract clients. But I dont know if its better to have 2 good mics instead of one great mic since there are so many counterfeit U87's out there (and you bought yours used I'm assuming) I have to ask... how do you know this one is real? Have you tried it next to another U87Ai (that was known to be authentic)? I don't know the answer for you, but before you say all U87Ai's are not right for you... |
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luken
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Post by luken on Aug 5, 2024 12:16:50 GMT -6
luckily i bought it at an auction for 1500€ so i could sell it with a little profit. But yes the best would be to keep it even if its just to attract clients. But I dont know if its better to have 2 good mics instead of one great mic since there are so many counterfeit U87's out there (and you bought yours used I'm assuming) I have to ask... how do you know this one is real? Have you tried it next to another U87Ai (that was known to be authentic)? I don't know the answer for you, but before you say all U87Ai's are not right for you... I created a thread about that. I opened it until the capsule and sent pics in the forum and got confirmed that its real. But still no 100% proof but the only way would be to send it to neumann which would cost 200€. But since it also came with the thomann exclusive bundle with the rycote mount I think it should be a real one |
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luken
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Post by luken on Aug 5, 2024 12:34:34 GMT -6
What do you guys think if the Chandler redd? I really like it since its sounds like a c800g with a bit more vintage sounds. Just saw there are used ones for around 4k
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Aug 5, 2024 12:45:27 GMT -6
What do you guys think if the Chandler redd? I really like it since its sounds like a c800g with a bit more vintage sounds. Just saw there are used ones for around 4k Always wanted to get my hands on one of those. I'll let someone who has heard it comment further, but for your needs having purpose matched pre-amp built in could be really useful. |
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luken
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Post by luken on Aug 5, 2024 12:52:31 GMT -6
What do you guys think if the Chandler redd? I really like it since its sounds like a c800g with a bit more vintage sounds. Just saw there are used ones for around 4k Always wanted to get my hands on one of those. I'll let someone who has heard it comment further, but for your needs having purpose matched pre-amp built in could be really useful. Would u say a neve isnt the right preamp for it? The c800g -> 1073 -> cl1b is i guess the most used chain so I thought it should be alright |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Aug 5, 2024 13:08:50 GMT -6
Always wanted to get my hands on one of those. I'll let someone who has heard it comment further, but for your needs having purpose matched pre-amp built in could be really useful. Would u say a neve isnt the right preamp for it? The c800g -> 1073 -> cl1b is i guess the most used chain so I thought it should be alright The Chandler Redd has a built in preamp based off of their REDD.47 preamp. That's a big part of what you're paying for so if I got one of those I would be getting it to use it with the matched pre-amp. I mean, tracking a Chandler Redd through a CL1b I think it's safe to say the gear wouldn't be holding you back! Same could be said for the u87 though. |
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luken
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Post by luken on Aug 5, 2024 13:11:50 GMT -6
Would u say a neve isnt the right preamp for it? The c800g -> 1073 -> cl1b is i guess the most used chain so I thought it should be alright The Chandler Redd has a built in preamp based off of their REDD.47 preamp. That's a big part of what you're paying for so if I got one of those I would be getting it to use it with the matched pre-amp. I mean, tracking a Chandler Redd through a CL1b I think it's safe to say the gear wouldn't be holding you back! Same could be said for the u87 though. U mean the redd.47 preamp? |
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luken
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Post by luken on Aug 5, 2024 13:18:43 GMT -6
Oh wait the mic itself got a build in preamp? So i dont need any other preamp like the neve?
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Aug 5, 2024 13:49:43 GMT -6
Oh wait the mic itself got a build in preamp? So i dont need any other preamp like the neve? Exactly. |
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luken
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Post by luken on Aug 5, 2024 13:52:17 GMT -6
So I could send my neve back and if I sell my u87ai and buy the chandler = 0. Sound good  |
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Post by chessparov on Aug 5, 2024 13:58:23 GMT -6
If... Seeking outside business IMHO keep your 87.  Will ketchup later. Chris |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Aug 5, 2024 14:46:14 GMT -6
So I could send my neve back and if I sell my u87ai and buy the chandler = 0. Sound good That would be one approach for sure. I mean, there's nothing wrong with that Neve preamp though! Really just a matter of what flavors you like. But yeah, the Chandler Redd is an all in one signal path. |
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luken
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Post by luken on Aug 5, 2024 15:07:58 GMT -6
If... Seeking outside business IMHO keep your 87. Will ketchup later. Chris Yeah thats still what im thinking about. Keeping the u87 and add a cm800t or maybe a sa800g would be great aswell |
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Post by smashlord on Aug 5, 2024 17:55:10 GMT -6
Soyuz 017 FET. Detailed, strong bottom, class.
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Post by bossanova on Aug 5, 2024 21:28:50 GMT -6
Another thing to take into account if you're not already is how much processing is on some commercial rap vocals. I don't know if you're into the Mike Dean sound but a big part of that is taking a vocal and just boosting the snot out of the high end with a Pultec plug. Granted, he uses a 800g on a lot of vocals, but you could probably get that sound with the 87. You might just need to boost a little more.
In some of those cases, the preamp isn't even a factor because he's done some last minute vocals that made it onto albums straight into an interface.
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Post by moeses on Aug 5, 2024 22:36:59 GMT -6
An SM7 and an API pre is much less than 4k, is there anything better for male rap vox? Yes, there are lots of things better than an sm7 for rap vox |
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Post by niklas1073 on Aug 6, 2024 1:39:31 GMT -6
All and all I would still suggest before you sell your stuff and go shopping in hope of a magic solution, to experiment with what was earlier discussed regarding recording techniques. As long as you run your pre clean you will not hear much of a difference in two quality pre’s. At the end of the day, if you cannot get a solid killer vocal track with most singers (there are exceptions of course) with your chain u87-1073spx-uad 6x, I dare to believe it’s user related. Your raw tracks are not quite par with what that chain is capable to produce I dare to say. So explore that a little more not to drop the big dough and still feel unsatisfied.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 6, 2024 10:25:55 GMT -6
Not much of a rap guy, but I agree with most of what has been said, the 87 is universal probably wouldn’t let it go. Personally I would work on finding my plugin chain, but I would probably add 3 pretty universal mics to my locker, the SM7 as suggested, a SM58 for a hand held, plus you can evaluate mic technique. Anybody who has ever played live has probably used a 58 & for some the comfort of a handheld yields performances as that will over come the Sonics. Lastly a EV 635a or RE50, once you learn the magic of the linearity , and uniformity of having an Omni it will be the best $100 you ever spent. Oh and no proximity effect.
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Post by tonycamphd on Aug 6, 2024 11:52:46 GMT -6
An SM7 and an API pre is much less than 4k, is there anything better for male rap vox? Yes, there are lots of things better than an sm7 for rap vox well, I see you have spoken, but I said "sm7 and an api", but i guess I better take your word on this oh great 6 post moeses down from the mountain purple site guy, cant wait to see your next 4 commandments 😂 |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 6, 2024 12:24:52 GMT -6
An SM7 and an API pre is much less than 4k, is there anything better for male rap vox? Yes, there are lots of things better than an sm7 for rap vox The SM7 is the universal affordable mic for talk, vocals and rap, there is a reason it was so universally recommended by professionals during the pandemic. |
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Post by chessparov on Aug 6, 2024 13:52:04 GMT -6
We need a M88 Phil Collins vs. MJ SM7 slam down. Live Su Su Studio. Chris |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 6, 2024 14:16:08 GMT -6
We need a M88 Phil Collins vs. MJ SM7 slam down. Live Su Su Studio. Chris I’m in if you can get Bono to bring his 58, but let’s not do it on a Sunday. It might get Bloody. |
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Post by moeses on Aug 6, 2024 14:44:52 GMT -6
Yes, there are lots of things better than an sm7 for rap vox The SM7 is the universal affordable mic for talk, vocals and rap, there is a reason it was so universally recommended by professionals during the pandemic. I've been a rap artist for 25 years I've been in more studios than I can count recorded on so many microphones I've never been in a situation where the sm7 was best choice for a rap vocal. Sm 57/58? Surprisingly, yes. But never an sm7. It is absolutely a myth I blame on Tony Belmont for starting on the message boards back in the day that this is the best mic for rap vocals |
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