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Post by EmRR on Jul 20, 2024 9:08:06 GMT -6
Right…because….the 184 is redesigned towards diffuse field EQ…meaning not as good in the free field….which the 84 is more in the direction of….Neumann’s primary market drove this….
Why they won’t make both as they do with their omni is a mystery.
Sennheiser MKH20 omni has a built in treble boost option for free versus diffuse, but the newer MKH8020 does away with that and has a slightly brighter top. Similar disease, and I expect more are used closer to the diffuse field versus not.
I had a set of KM140’s for years and never got on….because I work primarily in the free field….
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Post by johneppstein on Jul 20, 2024 10:52:01 GMT -6
Just an opinion.. There was another KM84 thread on here that covered pretty much the same stuff, but I think there was either a link or a discussion on a KM84-alike shootout or something similar and the clear winner was the KM184. In fact, the KM184 has the most similar capsule to the KM84 and because of that, has the most similar off-axis response, which has already been mentioned here as being THE reason the KM84 has been crowned king for so long. There was also a blind shootout at the purple place between the 84 and the 184 and the majority of people actually (blindly) chose the 184 as their favorite with tons of (self-proclaimed) heavy hitters over there assuredly telling us that they chose the 84 when they had actually chosen the KM184. The results ended up with tons of people deleting or editing their replies and/or coming up with excuses as to why they chose the non-mythic mic.. So forget all the clones and wannabes and just get a used KM184. You get the magic capsule and a good mic and you won't break the bank doing it. All that means in that the 184 is tailored to cater to more "modern" "tastes". Thank you, I'll stick with the traditional viewpoint. "Modern" taste is mercurial. It changes with the breeze... |
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Post by Ward on Jul 20, 2024 12:51:35 GMT -6
Right…because….the 184 is redesigned towards diffuse field EQ…meaning not as good in the free field….which the 84 is more in the direction of….Neumann’s primary market drove this…. Why they won’t make both as they do with their omni is a mystery. Sennheiser MKH20 omni has a built in treble boost option for free versus diffuse, but the newer MKH8020 does away with that and has a slightly brighter top. Similar disease, and I expect more are used closer to the diffuse field versus not. I had a set of KM140’s for years and never got on….because I work primarily in the free field…. Is anyone out there modding KM184s to more match the KM84s? |
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Post by EmRR on Jul 20, 2024 13:02:13 GMT -6
Right…because….the 184 is redesigned towards diffuse field EQ…meaning not as good in the free field….which the 84 is more in the direction of….Neumann’s primary market drove this…. Why they won’t make both as they do with their omni is a mystery. Sennheiser MKH20 omni has a built in treble boost option for free versus diffuse, but the newer MKH8020 does away with that and has a slightly brighter top. Similar disease, and I expect more are used closer to the diffuse field versus not. I had a set of KM140’s for years and never got on….because I work primarily in the free field…. Is anyone out there modding KM184s to more match the KM84s? Don't see how you would, it's in the capsule design I'm sure. Anything else would just be applied EQ. |
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Post by Dan on Jul 20, 2024 13:25:14 GMT -6
Everyone is acting like the off axis response of a Schoeps or DPA is bad or something. It's not. Its great, just as great IMO as a KM84. And way less noisey. Theres a reason why all us Classic engineers use them... And if you want a "wider" off axis sound. Get an Schoeps MK21. yeah....I find the off axis of the MKH mics pretty great too. So even it sounds like it's an omni with the off axis turned down....which is textbook "ideal". The whole Neumann KM family has a midrange emphasis that is hard to find in other mics, that always seems more the magic. Other mics may sound more full range in a comparison, but not always what you want. E-V RE-16 dynamic's also have pretty great off-axis response, also give a bleed that's much easier to work with. The Neumann midrange either works or sounds odd. RIP RE16. Is anyone out there modding KM184s to more match the KM84s? Don't see how you would, it's in the capsule design I'm sure. Anything else would just be applied EQ. KM184 has a different internal amplifier too. Making them have identical timbres is surely impossible. There are different eras of U87ai with almost identical frequency responses but different amplifiers. They sound different. |
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Post by vintagelove on Jul 20, 2024 23:54:13 GMT -6
Km184<<<km84<<<<<<<<<<<<<km64
The 64 is a really beautiful sounding mic. Never really cared for the 184.
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Post by rowmat on Jul 21, 2024 0:37:47 GMT -6
yeah....I find the off axis of the MKH mics pretty great too. So even it sounds like it's an omni with the off axis turned down....which is textbook "ideal". The whole Neumann KM family has a midrange emphasis that is hard to find in other mics, that always seems more the magic. Other mics may sound more full range in a comparison, but not always what you want. E-V RE-16 dynamic's also have pretty great off-axis response, also give a bleed that's much easier to work with. The Neumann midrange either works or sounds odd. RIP RE16. Don't see how you would, it's in the capsule design I'm sure. Anything else would just be applied EQ. KM184 has a different internal amplifier too. Making them have identical timbres is surely impossible. There are different eras of U87ai with almost identical frequency responses but different amplifiers. They sound different. The KM184 doesn’t have an output transformer as does the KM84. So likely that is part of the sound and maybe is why the KM84 is less pokey with respect to pick transients. One could argue the KM184 has a more modern/accurate sound but that’s not necessarily always desirable. |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jul 21, 2024 10:17:11 GMT -6
You can eq a stock 84 into anything you want.
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Post by damoongo on Jul 21, 2024 12:36:56 GMT -6
Km184<<<km84<<<<<<<<<<<<<km64 The 64 is a really beautiful sounding mic. Never really cared for the 184. AC701 is a magical thing |
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Post by nomatic on Jul 21, 2024 14:49:01 GMT -6
I have 3 of them now and a bunch of other SDCs and the 84s are that extra 10% that shines on acoustic instruments...
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Post by robschnapf on Jul 21, 2024 15:34:36 GMT -6
Always thought 184s were harder brighter specially apparent with a basher of a drummer.
That’s why for transformerless SDCI way prefer CMC5’s or 6’s over the 184. They don’t buckle. Clarity always remained.
I’ve been using the Soyuz FET 013 for the past several years for overheads and really love em.
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Post by hadaja on Jul 21, 2024 17:31:22 GMT -6
I sold my Soyuz 013 a while ago but since getting my CMC6 I can heart some of the same sound with those 2 x mics. Like I think the Soyuz sounds closer to the CMC6 then the KM84.
The 013 is a pretty decent SDC.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,083 
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Post by ericn on Jul 21, 2024 18:56:15 GMT -6
Always thought 184s were harder brighter specially apparent with a basher of a drummer. That’s why for transformerless SDCI way prefer CMC5’s or 6’s over the 184. They don’t buckle. Clarity always remained. I’ve been using the Soyuz FET 013 for the past several years for overheads and really love em. Like I said Rob soooo many great SDC’s out there, give them a try! |
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Post by robschnapf on Jul 22, 2024 2:30:54 GMT -6
[/quote]
Like I said Rob soooo many great SDC’s out there, give them a try![/quote]
A lot of them sound the same ish
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Post by frans on Jul 22, 2024 10:24:57 GMT -6
We compared something like 20 different SDCs, back and forth with the 84 as a kind of a reference point. Most of them expensive, two less so (which was obvious) and some really expensive, vintage, etc.etc. - my personal conclusion is to just get on with it. KM84s will do. Beyerdynamic MC930 will do. Schoeps and DPA will do. etc.etc. - sometimes depending on the situation one mic beats the other, but most times, quality does the job.
You can crucify me now.
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Post by robschnapf on Jul 22, 2024 12:07:24 GMT -6
Oh yeah 930s I forgot about those
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Post by Oneiro on Jul 27, 2024 12:25:50 GMT -6
84s are so great. I love them for overheads more and more - basically just done. They’re clear but not too bright so if I have a mono LDC panned center and 84s panned L/R, it forms a natural “pyramid” of brightness in the mix. The width is there but doesn’t call attention to itself and step over the things panned to the sides.
Can’t justify buying a pair since I have so many of the Soyuz and Sanken mics that cover similar territory but maybe one day in my Fuck you phase. Speaking of great off axis response, cannot say enough about all Sanken mics. CU-55 is one of the best deals in audio.
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Post by paulcheeba on Jul 27, 2024 16:10:12 GMT -6
As I mentioned I bought some 184’s as I chose them in every shootout. They oddly seem more mellow and saturated. I already have vintage ones, Schoeps and Soyuz tube 013’s. The 184’s were b-stock for £900. I like new gear too.
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