KM84 Thoughts

A friend of mine just let me borrow a pair of the Warm Audio 84’s. I’ve tried lots of different sdc’s over the years. Oktava’s, Joly modded Oktavas, Beyer MC930’s, and several others at different studios. I really like the sound of the Warms. Much more than my 930’s. They definitely have that midrange that I subconsciously expect and a much larger bottom as well. Never had a chance to use an actual 84, but very much digging the Warms.

Anybody get the ears on these? I’ve been told they are very close to the km84….
pelusomicrophonelab.com/p-84/

How do you find it with the 'red dot' cardioid capsule?

This is difficult to put into words and really encompasses a few aspects of the mics overall response to a room and the way it records.  But if you know the sound - you KNOW the sound.  

Small rooms are of course problematic with unwanted and difficult resonances - often demanding super tight mic-ing, which in turn causes different problems.  If you want an instrument to "breathe" a little before the capture - and I usually do - pulling back the mic is the best way to do that.  With most other mics - (in my experience ALL other mics - with LDC's being especially problematic) - that usually brings in too much of the problematic room to the overall sound.  In a problematic room, without an 84, I'm forced to not let the instrument breathe.  I am forced to stay close or get an ugly sound with unwanted resonances.

The KM84 not only has great off axis sonics, but it also has a great "reach".  Moreover, what I find to be a really unique "reach".  I define "reach" as the ability to pull a mic back into a room without the room becoming an overbearing part of the sound I'm recording - while still being able to dial in intimacy, and detail.  The ability to blend the instruments essence, with the surrounding room - in micro doses to create a special recording that doesn't sound like a microphone jammed into the instrument.

Some might define that as a tighter polar pattern, but for me it's not the same as a tighter pattern - it's a different quality of "pattern" for me.  Between the killer reach of a KM84, and it's smooth off axis response - I find that I can pull back more from the instrument in problematic environments (hence my above statement that several of you asked about), and still get a detailed and good sounding recording of the instrument, while at the same time be able to really dial in the room to enhance the instrument as much as possible, while allowing it to breathe and retain some NON close mic'd sound in the overall capture.  Hope that all makes sense.

I'll give one example.  I was on a big studio film release.  We had one shot for a particularly well known and very busy guitarist to overdub some delicate acoustic guitar parts that were featured in the mix/film.  We needed to record it at the composers house.  Which was temporary for him, had a horrible setup, no HVAC, and it was about 105 outside.  Inside it was incredibly uncomfortable due to heat.  The composer wanted to keep the windows open, with a fan in another room circulating air throughout the house.  Guitarist had only a small window of time available, and it was mid day.  We had 5-6 cues to do, and there was no time to dilly dally.  Well....as bad luck would have it, the gardeners showed up for the complex right as we started recording.  And there was no way to wait or get them to stop.  Bad room, fan, open windows, Leaf blowers and string trimmers....all up front and personal with a music part that needed to be featured!  Fun times!  Luckily I had the foresight to bring one of my KM84s.  In a quick amount of time, I was able to find a sweet spot in the room, and determine how close / pulled back I was able to go.  I was able to mitigate the room, get some "air" into the recording, and still mitigate all the negative factors that we were fighting against.  It wasn't a perfect recording.  We had to retake and punch a few times when the gardeners got too close, but we made it work.  It would have been a disaster with almost any LDC, and although I have lots of other SDC's, none of them (including I think my KM86's which I also really love) would have gotten me thru the session unscathed.


PS - ONE other note for those with problematic small rooms wanting to record acoustic guitars.....try an OMNI (especially Neumann's) - up SUPER close.  You can get incredible detailed, and surprisingly vivid sound.  You can really mitigate a lot of the room and put the mic into places where you never can with a cardiod pattern which you almost certainly have to pull back on.  My KM53's shine in this application.  HUGE, detailed beyond description, and virtually no room sound.  Even right up on the sound hole.

Hope all this helps and makes sense.  As much as I like the 012's, I can't quite pull off these types of "problematic room" mic-ing techniques with them.

Just an opinion..

There was another KM84 thread on here that covered pretty much the same stuff, but I think there was either a link or a discussion on a KM84-alike shootout or something similar and the clear winner was the KM184.

In fact, the KM184 has the most similar capsule to the KM84 and because of that, has the most similar off-axis response, which has already been mentioned here as being THE reason the KM84 has been crowned king for so long.

There was also a blind shootout at the purple place between the 84 and the 184 and the majority of people actually (blindly) chose the 184 as their favorite with tons of (self-proclaimed) heavy hitters over there assuredly telling us that they chose the 84 when they had actually chosen the KM184.

The results ended up with tons of people deleting or editing their replies and/or coming up with excuses as to why they chose the non-mythic mic..

So forget all the clones and wannabes and just get a used KM184. You get the magic capsule and a good mic and you won't break the bank doing it.

Plus one.  I have the KM184 and a KM183 and I love 'em.  Has been so long since I used a KM84 that I couldn't tell you that the 184 does or does not sound like an 84; nor does it matter to me.  They're great mics (IMHO) in their own right.

-09

Thank you, Dr. Bill for the excellent explanation. Love my KM84s.

Secondary bonus: if he goes to prison, you get to keep his mics... Don't Shlep with a Schoeps!

yeah....I find the off axis of the MKH mics pretty great too.  So even it sounds like it's an omni with the off axis turned down....which is textbook "ideal".  

The whole Neumann KM family has a midrange emphasis that is hard to find in other mics, that always seems more the magic. Other mics may sound more full range in a comparison, but not always what you want.

E-V RE-16 dynamic's also have pretty great off-axis response, also give a bleed that's much easier to work with.  

There ya go!! ^^^^^. Another great description of the mic's reach and off-axis coloration.

Right. But you’d hope it would have more “reach” than the Schoeps mk2h because those are Omni. I’d be more convinced about the 84’s magic “reach” when comparing to other cardioid sdc’s…. Don’t get me wrong. I love them. But I like m221b’s just as much. (But in the case of solo cello, I didn’t recommend them because they are tube, and www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/mejwofmdd2h09n2dih0gl/AIt8_L9tClT1mOCg8ud5M3c?rlkey=6ba1vl5q0r0q6zcqpjp3eyey8&dl=0although the ac701’s are anmazingly quiet, the self noise is slightly higher than the 84’s.)  But I haven't really done a side by side comparison focussing on the off axis response...

And to my ears KM184’s are also ‘harder’ sounding accentuating picking transients on acoustic instruments more than a KM84.

I typically prefer KM184’s on nylon stringed guitars over steel stringed guitars.

It maybe a combination of a faster transient response and slightly accentuated high end but it makes me more conscious of pick/plectrum noise than when using a KM84 which sounds more balanced and even.

I’ve suspected the output transformer used in KM84’s maybe one of the secret ingredients of their sound.