ericn
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Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,083 
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Post by ericn on Jul 16, 2024 14:02:33 GMT -6
Typical modern recording school grad knows an SSL Dueality inside out, yet is lost behind a Mackie 1604. I keep trying to tell my students to get as much experience on a LFAC as they can before they graduate, because it'll likely be years before they get their hands on one again, if they're lucky enough to even be in a room with one at all! Berkeley is a little different my friend, now as someone with a strong background in live I’ll admit it’s not one of the strongest parts of the program, but when it comes to studio there has always been a strong effort to actually teach these musicians. As a non musician AE, yeah I do wish the degree program had an avenue for us ( maybe if I was in Boston I could make an ADA argument 😁). On the other hand the one former Berkeley recording program student I have know the best left and has a PHD in Astrophysics. |
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Post by EmRR on Jul 16, 2024 17:02:30 GMT -6
HAHA I've never encountered any of those in nearly 20 years of occasional corporate and sports event/broadcast! In broadcast / recording you probably won’t, event services you walk into a hotel ballroom/ conference room, different story. The never update it is what ever was cool when it was installed. Ive done a whole lot of hotel ballroom/ conference room work too, never seen much of anything on the install end outside of carts of small analog or entry level PA stuff pushed around as needed. Tons of analog panel jacks on walls that no one in the house knows much about! Anything of size has always been outside equipment coming in, in/out crews to fly truss, etc. I keep waiting to see any sort of network based systems in places, and it just hasn't happened anywhere I've been. |
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Post by drumsound on Jul 16, 2024 17:28:26 GMT -6
The exception to that rule is Matt Ross-Spang who started at Sun Studios as a tour guide and eventually refitted the studio to period correct things to make it a true to life vintage room. I'm not sure what state it's in for clients now, since he's been gone from there for a while. At least there's work in live sound. Yeah but these grads think they are hot shit, and expect to be FOH, Monitor mix or System tech because they have a “degree” or “ certificate “, not that they know anything about live, hauling racks & stacks, coiling cables is below them. A couple of weeks a go a friend was doing a show & afterwards I’m coiling cables, packing stands because I’m standing on a stage talking to him so what do you do. There were 3 new techs all from recording schools who couldn’t understand why this guy off the street didn’t require the supervision they needed. Finally the boss looks at them and say’s “ who do you think showed me how to coil a cable”😁 That's awesome. Do you know Ian Corbet who teaches in KC? He seems to be running a good program at Kansas City Community College. Webster University in StL hosts a great Student Summit (which you should be involved with) each spring and that's where I've encountered Ian and his students. |
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Post by thehightenor on Jul 17, 2024 1:06:59 GMT -6
Typical modern recording school grad knows an SSL Dueality inside out, yet is lost behind a Mackie 1604. I keep trying to tell my students to get as much experience on a LFAC as they can before they graduate, because it'll likely be years before they get their hands on one again, if they're lucky enough to even be in a room with one at all! Honest question. What is the point in teaching kids the way around a LFAC is there's a 1% chance they'll come across one in their careers. If live sound in the UK is anything to go by they'd be better of learning the OS to Behringer/Midas digital boards! Pro Tools for the studio yes definitely and using Avid control surfaces - I get that - but LFAC really? |
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Post by bgrotto on Jul 17, 2024 7:46:16 GMT -6
I keep trying to tell my students to get as much experience on a LFAC as they can before they graduate, because it'll likely be years before they get their hands on one again, if they're lucky enough to even be in a room with one at all! Honest question. What is the point in teaching kids the way around a LFAC is there's a 1% chance they'll come across one in their careers. If live sound in the UK is anything to go by they'd be better of learning the OS to Behringer/Midas digital boards! Pro Tools for the studio yes definitely and using Avid control surfaces - I get that - but LFAC really? Signal flow is the first and main goal. The students who master a “simple” LFAC (in our case, the API legacy +) demonstrate much better command of signal flow throughout the studio. Working their way up through the big Neve 88 desk (which is the berklee curriculum these days) will generally prepare them for ANY console, which is awful handy if you want to be a recording engineer for hire. We want them to walk into any studio prepared to run a session. Learning an avid control surface doesn’t do that. in terms of signal processing and technique, learning to mix on a console — with its comparatively limited facilities — is a MASSIVELY useful thing that forces greater focus on simple but overlooked concepts like balance and broad tonal shaping. And it can all be brought to itb work where the toolset is way more sophisticated (but generally overwhelming and needlessly complex). last, but not least, the kids love gear and hell, they’re paying for it. So it just makes sense to make use of the extreme privilege they have to operate this rarified equipment. |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,083
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Post by ericn on Jul 17, 2024 8:14:37 GMT -6
Honest question. What is the point in teaching kids the way around a LFAC is there's a 1% chance they'll come across one in their careers. If live sound in the UK is anything to go by they'd be better of learning the OS to Behringer/Midas digital boards! Pro Tools for the studio yes definitely and using Avid control surfaces - I get that - but LFAC really? Signal flow is the first and main goal. The students who master a “simple” LFAC (in our case, the API legacy +) demonstrate much better command of signal flow throughout the studio. Working their way up through the big Neve 88 desk (which is the berklee curriculum these days) will generally prepare them for ANY console, which is awful handy if you want to be a recording engineer for hire. We want them to walk into any studio prepared to run a session. Learning an avid control surface doesn’t do that. in terms of signal processing and technique, learning to mix on a console — with its comparatively limited facilities — is a MASSIVELY useful thing that forces greater focus on simple but overlooked concepts like balance and broad tonal shaping. And it can all be brought to itb work where the toolset is way more sophisticated (but generally overwhelming and needlessly complex). last, but not least, the kids love gear and hell, they’re paying for it. So it just makes sense to make use of the extreme privilege they have to operate this rarified equipment. Yes ! I always tried to convince every audio educator that a console is a better tactile and visual representation of Signal flow, gain structure and general work around patching compared to any DAW. No clicking to get somewhere, instant feedback. A console teaches you that mistakes are not necessarily bad, if they are how to quickly correct them. |
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Post by chessparov on Jul 17, 2024 8:15:35 GMT -6
Do they get to wear FLAC jackets?
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,083
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Post by ericn on Jul 17, 2024 8:23:48 GMT -6
Do they get to wear FLAC jackets? In Boston they are AFFLACK Jackets |
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Post by Ward on Jul 17, 2024 8:59:38 GMT -6
Do they get to wear FLAC jackets? In Boston they are AFFLACK Jackets OMF . . . How I wanted to squash that duck, so many times! |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,083
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Post by ericn on Jul 17, 2024 9:26:53 GMT -6
In Boston they are AFFLACK Jackets OMF . . . How I wanted to squash that duck, so many times! Gilber Godfrey’s best roll! |
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Post by Dan on Jul 17, 2024 10:17:26 GMT -6
Honest question. What is the point in teaching kids the way around a LFAC is there's a 1% chance they'll come across one in their careers. If live sound in the UK is anything to go by they'd be better of learning the OS to Behringer/Midas digital boards! Pro Tools for the studio yes definitely and using Avid control surfaces - I get that - but LFAC really? Signal flow is the first and main goal. The students who master a “simple” LFAC (in our case, the API legacy +) demonstrate much better command of signal flow throughout the studio. Working their way up through the big Neve 88 desk (which is the berklee curriculum these days) will generally prepare them for ANY console, which is awful handy if you want to be a recording engineer for hire. We want them to walk into any studio prepared to run a session. Learning an avid control surface doesn’t do that. in terms of signal processing and technique, learning to mix on a console — with its comparatively limited facilities — is a MASSIVELY useful thing that forces greater focus on simple but overlooked concepts like balance and broad tonal shaping. And it can all be brought to itb work where the toolset is way more sophisticated (but generally overwhelming and needlessly complex). last, but not least, the kids love gear and hell, they’re paying for it. So it just makes sense to make use of the extreme privilege they have to operate this rarified equipment. an avid control surface is also antiquated. Rip s3. S1 is silly except for being able to automate multiple faders at once. The ssl one is a gloried mackie and the console 1 controls silly phase shifted analog emulations. The current standard is store.kensington.com/products/kensington-expert-trackball-mouse-k64325Controlling an ms paint (or mac paint if you’re old enough to remember that) eq with too many, too sharp, too resonant filters like fabfilter pro q3 or softube Weiss eq mp (the one I use and even more paint than fabfilter. No knobs at all) |
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Post by doubledog on Jul 17, 2024 10:55:36 GMT -6
In Boston they are AFFLACK Jackets OMF . . . How I wanted to squash that duck, so many times! I assumed he meant Affleck... and yes, the duck is annoying. And sorry, I don't miss GG one bit. |
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Post by Quint on Jul 17, 2024 11:00:58 GMT -6
OMF . . . How I wanted to squash that duck, so many times! I assumed he meant Affleck... and yes, the duck is annoying. And sorry, I don't miss GG one bit. I thought that was a reference to Ben Affleck as well. As for Gilbert Gottfried, I always did enjoy the uncle/nephew duo that he was a part of on Wings. Carlton and Lewis Blanchard. Classic. |
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,083
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Post by ericn on Jul 17, 2024 12:56:59 GMT -6
I assumed he meant Affleck... and yes, the duck is annoying. And sorry, I don't miss GG one bit. I thought that was a reference to Ben Affleck as well. As for Gilbert Gottfried, I always did enjoy the uncle/nephew duo that he was a part of on Wings. Carlton and Lewis Blanchard. Classic. It was intended to be a pun on both😁 |
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Post by donr on Jul 19, 2024 15:11:35 GMT -6
I just got interviewed by a Billboard journalist about the closing of the Record Plant LA. We did the Mirrors LP there, and at Kendun Recorders. Engineer Gary Ladinsky warned us to avoid the hot tub.
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Post by geoff738 on Jul 19, 2024 16:48:35 GMT -6
I just got interviewed by a Billboard journalist about the closing of the Record Plant LA. We did the Mirrors LP there, and at Kendun Recorders. Engineer Gary Ladinsky warned us to avoid the hot tub. Ixnay on the hot tub hijinx. Probably good advice at the best of times. Makes me curious who was in there before you guys. Cheers, Geoff |
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Post by donr on Jul 19, 2024 16:56:19 GMT -6
By the way, the guy I talked to for Billboard said the Record Plant may not be dead yet, there were issues among the several owners and it might still be viable when it settles out.
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Post by robschnapf on Jul 19, 2024 23:20:12 GMT -6
The iconic Record Plant was on 3rd street. There’s nothing special about the Sycamore location.
I’m not getting bent out of shape over that news. It was privately owned for several years anyways.
I never chose to go there ever to make a record.
Sunset Sound, Capitol, Conway, Cello/Oceanway/EastWest/United
And others I’d pick over the record plant.
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Post by drbill on Jul 20, 2024 8:47:49 GMT -6
Sunset Sound, Capitol, Conway, Cello/Oceanway/EastWest/UnitedAnd others I’d pick over the record plant. <<big thumbsup>> |
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Post by smashlord on Jul 20, 2024 10:07:05 GMT -6
I keep trying to tell my students to get as much experience on a LFAC as they can before they graduate, because it'll likely be years before they get their hands on one again, if they're lucky enough to even be in a room with one at all! Honest question. What is the point in teaching kids the way around a LFAC is there's a 1% chance they'll come across one in their careers. If live sound in the UK is anything to go by they'd be better of learning the OS to Behringer/Midas digital boards! Pro Tools for the studio yes definitely and using Avid control surfaces - I get that - but LFAC really? To justify the insane tuitions. I have several friends/acquaintances that teach or have taught in a certain major east coast music school's M, P & E program. As one put it, "The curriculum seems designed to teach these kids how to be assistant engineers in the 80's." |
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Post by jeremygillespie on Jul 20, 2024 11:29:21 GMT -6
Honest question. What is the point in teaching kids the way around a LFAC is there's a 1% chance they'll come across one in their careers. If live sound in the UK is anything to go by they'd be better of learning the OS to Behringer/Midas digital boards! Pro Tools for the studio yes definitely and using Avid control surfaces - I get that - but LFAC really? To justify the insane tuitions. I have several friends/acquaintances that teach or have taught in a certain major east coast music school's M, P & E program. As one put it, "The curriculum seems designed to teach these kids how to be assistant engineers in the 80's." I’m glad I went to school for this if for anything else other than the electrical engineering course and my knowledge of signals and signal flow. Also glad I was able to assist in a real room with a real desk and pro engineers. I only had a year long program but they jammed a ton of info in there for us. That school is long gone now. |
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Post by chessparov on Jul 20, 2024 11:37:24 GMT -6
The iconic Record Plant was on 3rd street. There’s nothing special about the Sycamore location. I’m not getting bent out of shape over that news. It was privately owned for several years anyways. I never chose to go there ever to make a record. Sunset Sound, Capitol, Conway, Cello/Oceanway/EastWest/United And others I’d pick over the record plant. Your place is pretty darn cool too Rob!  |
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Post by EmRR on Jul 20, 2024 12:42:11 GMT -6
I have several friends/acquaintances that teach or have taught in a certain major east coast music school's M, P & E program. As one put it, "The curriculum seems designed to teach these kids how to be assistant engineers in the 80's." I note the Recording Workshop which was originally specifically designed to place people in assistant engineer positions has pivoted to teaching a good bit of live sound, while maintaining a couple rooms with consoles. |
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Post by thehightenor on Jul 20, 2024 13:03:41 GMT -6
Honest question. What is the point in teaching kids the way around a LFAC is there's a 1% chance they'll come across one in their careers. If live sound in the UK is anything to go by they'd be better of learning the OS to Behringer/Midas digital boards! Pro Tools for the studio yes definitely and using Avid control surfaces - I get that - but LFAC really? To justify the insane tuitions. I have several friends/acquaintances that teach or have taught in a certain major east coast music school's M, P & E program. As one put it, "The curriculum seems designed to teach these kids how to be assistant engineers in the 80's." Exactly! |
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Post by thehightenor on Jul 20, 2024 13:05:15 GMT -6
I have several friends/acquaintances that teach or have taught in a certain major east coast music school's M, P & E program. As one put it, "The curriculum seems designed to teach these kids how to be assistant engineers in the 80's." I note the Recording Workshop which was originally specifically designed to place people in assistant engineer positions has pivoted to teaching a good bit of live sound, while maintaining a couple rooms with consoles. Here in the UK, if you want to run live sound then you better know the OS of the main digital boards, coz that's what you're going to be using. Also how to run and configure IEM's. |
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