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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jul 12, 2024 13:21:30 GMT -6
That’s true. But I’ve yet to find a way to get drum sounds I like that isn’t, one way or another, a pain in the ass. Gotta enjoy the process, I guess. Which I do! It's really the only instrument I've never attempted to be remedial at...I've just never had a set where I could sit and suck at to get better. One day when the ship comes in, I'm buying a real set and going down that road. Or not. Porbably just need to hire people that know what they're doing lol. I don't know man, I decided to get "average" at drums during the pandemic and it was both fun and very worthwhile. As a songwriter I think you'd find the return on your time investment many times over. I almost drove my wife insane though.
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Post by ragan on Jul 12, 2024 13:25:57 GMT -6
That’s one thing V Drums are really good for - practicing silently.
You won’t learn how to strike real drums and get expression out of them by playing V Drums, but you can go an awfully long way with strengthening your groove/pocket and developing limb independence, all while not making a big racket in your house.
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Post by ragan on Jul 12, 2024 13:27:59 GMT -6
Also kind of good exercise (depending on what/how you’re playing of course). I’ve made some drumming playlists that I like (I really like playing to stuff like Tears for Fears and INXS and 80s Yes) and can play for an hour while everyone’s asleep and work up a good sweat and feel pretty good after.
This can also be a selling point on the cost.
“Honey, you know how you’re always saying I need to exercise more, well…”
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Post by drumsound on Jul 12, 2024 13:28:03 GMT -6
I've considered buying some Hi Hats and cymbals just to play that stuff myself...but alas, that is a pain in the ass. I had a friend who was an early home recordist and he'd often add live hats to his drum machine tracks and it did make those songs feel more human. That’s true. But I’ve yet to find a way to get drum sounds I like that isn’t, one way or another, a pain in the ass. Gotta enjoy the process, I guess. Which I do! It's really the only instrument I've never attempted to be remedial at...I've just never had a set where I could sit and suck at to get better. One day when the ship comes in, I'm buying a real set and going down that road. Or not. Porbably just need to hire people that know what they're doing lol. If you ever have the space, I highly encourage it, even if you don't end up doing your own drum tracking. I think it's a good idea for any musician to spend some time on other instruments. It really makes us more better, and more well rounded musicians, and producers.
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Post by doubledog on Jul 12, 2024 15:08:49 GMT -6
That’s one thing V Drums are really good for - practicing silently. but not absolutely silent. I had an e-kit and I woke my wife up because she could hear the sticks on mesh heads and the bass drum pedal hitting... which radiated through the floor. that's when I gave up and built a separate, soundproof (mostly) studio. I didn't really like the e-kit anyway.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 12, 2024 16:14:30 GMT -6
It's really the only instrument I've never attempted to be remedial at...I've just never had a set where I could sit and suck at to get better. One day when the ship comes in, I'm buying a real set and going down that road. Or not. Porbably just need to hire people that know what they're doing lol. I don't know man, I decided to get "average" at drums during the pandemic and it was both fun and very worthwhile. As a songwriter I think you'd find the return on your time investment many times over. I almost drove my wife insane though. That’s probably very true. Bet it makes you a better player rhythmically/timing on everything.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 12, 2024 16:15:54 GMT -6
Also kind of good exercise (depending on what/how you’re playing of course). I’ve made some drumming playlists that I like (I really like playing to stuff like Tears for Fears and INXS and 80s Yes) and can play for an hour while everyone’s asleep and work up a good sweat and feel pretty good after. This can also be a selling point on the cost. “Honey, you know how you’re always saying I need to exercise more, well…” Hey - I know you wanted a new elliptical, but you’re gonna be learning drums instead. Happy Mother’s Day.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jul 12, 2024 17:08:16 GMT -6
I don't know man, I decided to get "average" at drums during the pandemic and it was both fun and very worthwhile. As a songwriter I think you'd find the return on your time investment many times over. I almost drove my wife insane though. That’s probably very true. Bet it makes you a better player rhythmically/timing on everything. 1000% Everyone assumed I woodshedded on piano. Nope. Barely practiced. But the drumming tightened up all my playing especially piano.
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Jul 12, 2024 18:30:57 GMT -6
I was in France for a MWTM week with Tony Hoffer and a guy pulled up tracks recorded through a 1608 using SD that sounded incredible. He said he just ran the stereo out from SD.
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Post by ragan on Jul 12, 2024 19:52:56 GMT -6
That’s one thing V Drums are really good for - practicing silently. but not absolutely silent. I had an e-kit and I woke my wife up because she could hear the sticks on mesh heads and the bass drum pedal hitting... which radiated through the floor. that's when I gave up and built a separate, soundproof (mostly) studio. I didn't really like the e-kit anyway. Yeah true. It won’t work in every situation. I built my studio with some pretty decent isolation so it works for me.
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Post by russellcreekps on Jul 14, 2024 18:12:51 GMT -6
I never bonded with SD. Really like the Mixwave and Goran Grooves (super cheap) kits. And when I want a cool sound/preset (though they have some great straight up tones), I go with AD2.
PS. Mixwave sounds the most mix ready to me, if it fits the track (not great for mellower stuff).
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Post by the other mark williams on Jul 14, 2024 18:20:07 GMT -6
I never bonded with SD. Really like the Mixwave and Goran Grooves (super cheap) kits. And when I want a cool sound/preset (though they have some great straight up tones), I go with AD2. PS. Mixwave sounds the most mix ready to me, if it fits the track. There really is a huge range of sounds in the expansion packs for SD3. You can’t just listen to the product pages to get a real sense of what each expansion sounds like. Evil Drums isn’t even in the same neighborhood as Decades or Legacy of Rock, for instance.
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Post by BenjaminAshlin on Jul 14, 2024 19:54:44 GMT -6
Evil Drums isn’t even in the same neighborhood as Decades or Legacy of Rock, for instance. Yeah, Its not even in the same software suit anymore. But if you ever want to sell your Evil drums SDX hit me up!
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Post by Shadowk on Jul 15, 2024 6:16:46 GMT -6
Like all things it depends on the song, quite a few 80's metal bands sounded like their hi-hats was taken from an early drum machine even though I know they mic'd a real kit. Superior for me has always been a bit more natural in terms of dynamics but as I've been saying for years (and as Ragan said) it's a bit flat & 2D however to avoid the clash caused by descriptive means I find all Toontrack kits phasey. That's what collapses the sounds and adds a nice bit of wash to the signal. It's somewhat like the Roland Kits, the TD-9 in terms of fidelity hits hard even if it sounds a bit fake but as you get up the ranks (TD-27, TD-50) it gets worse and worse in terms of phase or fidelity. I'm far from the only one whose mentioned this if you've ever looked at an e-drum forum. So if you need a background kit to fill a song out and add a beat superior is great, if you need something more up front and fake for a modern rock song Steven Slate does the job. What I haven't found is a VSTI drum kit that can do both like a real acoustic can (which can be shaped from raw and responsive to tight and focussed), I'm looking at this currently www.soniccouture.com/en/products/g76-sun-drums/.
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Post by thehightenor on Jul 15, 2024 9:32:22 GMT -6
Like all things it depends on the song, quite a few 80's metal bands sounded like their hi-hats was take an early drum machine even though I know they mic'd a real kit. Superior for me has always been a bit more natural in terms of dynamics but as I've been saying for years (and as Ragan said) it's a bit flat & 2D however to avoid the clash caused by descriptive means I find all Toontrack kits phasey. That's what collapses the sounds and adds a nice bit of wash to the signal. It's somewhat like the Roland Kits, the TD-9 in terms of fidelity hits hard even if it sounds a bit fake but as you get up the ranks (TD-27, TD-50) it gets worse and worse in terms of phase or fidelity. I'm far from the only one whose mentioned this if you've ever looked at an e-drum forum. So if you need a background kit to fill a song out and add a beat superior is great, if you need something more up front and fake for a modern rock song Steven Slate does the job. What I haven't found is a VSTI drum kit that can do both like a real acoustic can (which can be shaped from raw and responsive to tight and focussed), I'm looking at this currently www.soniccouture.com/en/products/g76-sun-drums/. I've a got a big E kit by Drum Tec/ Roland TD-50x and the sounds in the Roland module are as naff as ever. But the playability and visceral feedback of their new digital snare/ride/hi-hats and using full size DrumTec shells is amazing. I always monitor the module as the latency is close to zero. I play like I'm on a real kit and virtually every nuance is transmitted over MIDI so when I trigger SD3 (which has a proper map for all these new digital Roland surfaces) the results imho really great. All those tiny velocity and timing nuances are right there in the MIDI file for post triggering SD3. It would be impossible to programme it.
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Post by ragan on Jul 15, 2024 9:39:00 GMT -6
I did the same thing with my Roland TD-25. It was pretty good. Always took some fixing/massaging after the fact, but not a lot.
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Post by Dan on Jul 15, 2024 10:09:32 GMT -6
Yeah you can just eq and distort it and throw it in a room. Honestly send the drums to a room, crush it, blend it in. Send them to the same room or reverb you’re sending everything else too. Same settings. Just crush it. Then send the drum bus (with the crushed room) to the main reverb too. Works every time
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Post by Dan on Jul 15, 2024 10:14:57 GMT -6
The standard used to be Alesis D4 and those 90s records sound better than what comes out now. If they could make that sound good, people can make Superior Drummer sound good much more easily.
Godflesh - Streetcleaner used an HR-16 and sounds amazing.
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Post by thehightenor on Jul 15, 2024 10:26:45 GMT -6
I did the same thing with my Roland TD-25. It was pretty good. Always took some fixing/massaging after the fact, but not a lot. I think Roland made some big strides with the TD-50x - it’s not a cheap set up but those digital control surfaces output a lot of DATA and it adds up to less editing. I can track a song and leave it untouched - maybe a tiny edit here and there - no more than an acoustic performance! The key for me is using an RME interface - their MIDI driver has sub 1ms MIDI jitter and it makes a big difference to preserving the feel of the performance. It’s not 100% of an acoustic kit but it’s a solid 90% there and i can get the last 10% editing and mixing. Works for the genres I produce in and I love Rooms of Hansa, Decades, Hitmaker, Legends of Rock those SDX sampled are superb! As I said, I wouldn’t use it for a jazz trio
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Post by Shadowk on Jul 15, 2024 15:32:03 GMT -6
Like all things it depends on the song, quite a few 80's metal bands sounded like their hi-hats was take an early drum machine even though I know they mic'd a real kit. Superior for me has always been a bit more natural in terms of dynamics but as I've been saying for years (and as Ragan said) it's a bit flat & 2D however to avoid the clash caused by descriptive means I find all Toontrack kits phasey. That's what collapses the sounds and adds a nice bit of wash to the signal. It's somewhat like the Roland Kits, the TD-9 in terms of fidelity hits hard even if it sounds a bit fake but as you get up the ranks (TD-27, TD-50) it gets worse and worse in terms of phase or fidelity. I'm far from the only one whose mentioned this if you've ever looked at an e-drum forum. So if you need a background kit to fill a song out and add a beat superior is great, if you need something more up front and fake for a modern rock song Steven Slate does the job. What I haven't found is a VSTI drum kit that can do both like a real acoustic can (which can be shaped from raw and responsive to tight and focussed), I'm looking at this currently www.soniccouture.com/en/products/g76-sun-drums/. I've a got a big E kit by Drum Tec/ Roland TD-50x and the sounds in the Roland module are as naff as ever. But the playability and visceral feedback of their new digital snare/ride/hi-hats and using full size DrumTec shells is amazing. I always monitor the module as the latency is close to zero. I play like I'm on a real kit and virtually every nuance is transmitted over MIDI so when I trigger SD3 (which has a proper map for all these new digital Roland surfaces) the results imho really great. All those tiny velocity and timing nuances are right there in the MIDI file for post triggering SD3. It would be impossible to programme it. It’s not the size of your kit chief, it’s what you do with it.
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Post by thehightenor on Jul 15, 2024 15:48:57 GMT -6
I've a got a big E kit by Drum Tec/ Roland TD-50x and the sounds in the Roland module are as naff as ever. But the playability and visceral feedback of their new digital snare/ride/hi-hats and using full size DrumTec shells is amazing. I always monitor the module as the latency is close to zero. I play like I'm on a real kit and virtually every nuance is transmitted over MIDI so when I trigger SD3 (which has a proper map for all these new digital Roland surfaces) the results imho really great. All those tiny velocity and timing nuances are right there in the MIDI file for post triggering SD3. It would be impossible to programme it. It’s not the size of your kit chief, it’s what you do with it. Seriously though, the drums being full sized makes a huge difference to the "experience" of playing. When you hit a floor tom - if the drum is the size of a floor tom it totally cements the illusion of playing a real floor tom and also the head has a bit more give and feels right. I have one of those vibrating drum stools (Porter and Davies) and that makes a big difference to the experience and illusion I'm playing an acoustic kit - hugely helps the feel I can achieve. Mrs Tenor tried it out whilst listening to a Bon Jovi track and had an inexplicable smile on her face - I don't think she's ever experienced Bon Jovi's music so intimately.
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Post by Shadowk on Jul 15, 2024 16:47:00 GMT -6
It’s not the size of your kit chief, it’s what you do with it. Seriously though, the drums being full sized makes a huge difference to the "experience" of playing. When you hit a floor tom - if the drum is the size of a floor tom it totally cements the illusion of playing a real floor tom and also the head has a bit more give and feels right. I have one of those vibrating drum stools (Porter and Davies) and that makes a big difference to the experience and illusion I'm playing an acoustic kit - hugely helps the feel I can achieve. Mrs Tenor tried it out whilst listening to a Bon Jovi track and had an inexplicable smile on her face - I don't think she's ever experienced Bon Jovi's music so intimately. They’re all bouncy mesh heads to me, real kits are one thing but when it comes to e-drums I ain’t too bothered what they are as they’re again all the same to me.
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Post by thehightenor on Jul 16, 2024 0:48:35 GMT -6
Seriously though, the drums being full sized makes a huge difference to the "experience" of playing. When you hit a floor tom - if the drum is the size of a floor tom it totally cements the illusion of playing a real floor tom and also the head has a bit more give and feels right. I have one of those vibrating drum stools (Porter and Davies) and that makes a big difference to the experience and illusion I'm playing an acoustic kit - hugely helps the feel I can achieve. Mrs Tenor tried it out whilst listening to a Bon Jovi track and had an inexplicable smile on her face - I don't think she's ever experienced Bon Jovi's music so intimately. They’re all bouncy mesh heads to me, real kits are one thing but when it comes to e-drums I ain’t too bothered what they are as they’re again all the same to me. Well they solved the bouncy heads years ago and that’s no longer an issue - but as you say. A drum is a drum is a drum. I feel the same about acoustic kits, I like to think I can make anything sound good.
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Post by BenjaminAshlin on Jul 17, 2024 1:21:16 GMT -6
I did the same thing with my Roland TD-25. It was pretty good. Always took some fixing/massaging after the fact, but not a lot. I think Roland made some big strides with the TD-50x - it’s not a cheap set up but those digital control surfaces output a lot of DATA and it adds up to less editing. I can track a song and leave it untouched - maybe a tiny edit here and there - no more than an acoustic performance! The key for me is using an RME interface - their MIDI driver has sub 1ms MIDI jitter and it makes a big difference to preserving the feel of the performance. It’s not 100% of an acoustic kit but it’s a solid 90% there and i can get the last 10% editing and mixing. Works for the genres I produce in and I love Rooms of Hansa, Decades, Hitmaker, Legends of Rock those SDX sampled are superb! As I said, I wouldn’t use it for a jazz trio I have owned a few different module brands and overall roland is the best for triggering and latency. (sounds still suck) The digital ride and snare are just the same technology (piezos) with the controller and A/D moved into the cymbal its self. They don't really output a lot of data. You only need positional sensing and velocity. Sure they do some additional calculations onboard, parallel processing of signals, but it isn't vastly different from what they were doing before. Largely it just locks you into the roland ecosystem with a proprietary connection for their acoustic sized cymbals taking market share away from the likes of ATV.
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Post by thehightenor on Jul 17, 2024 5:48:20 GMT -6
I think Roland made some big strides with the TD-50x - it’s not a cheap set up but those digital control surfaces output a lot of DATA and it adds up to less editing. I can track a song and leave it untouched - maybe a tiny edit here and there - no more than an acoustic performance! The key for me is using an RME interface - their MIDI driver has sub 1ms MIDI jitter and it makes a big difference to preserving the feel of the performance. It’s not 100% of an acoustic kit but it’s a solid 90% there and i can get the last 10% editing and mixing. Works for the genres I produce in and I love Rooms of Hansa, Decades, Hitmaker, Legends of Rock those SDX sampled are superb! As I said, I wouldn’t use it for a jazz trio I have owned a few different module brands and overall roland is the best for triggering and latency. (sounds still suck) The digital ride and snare are just the same technology (piezos) with the controller and A/D moved into the cymbal its self. They don't really output a lot of data. You only need positional sensing and velocity. Sure they do some additional calculations onboard, parallel processing of signals, but it isn't vastly different from what they were doing before. Largely it just locks you into the roland ecosystem with a proprietary connection for their acoustic sized cymbals taking market share away from the likes of ATV. They seem to have more zones and the zones they have a super responsive - amazingly responsive. The digital hihat/snare/ ride combo are really stunning imho. Buying the TD-50x system has made an enormous difference to the quality of the grooves in achieving with my E drum rig. Roland are class leading imho.
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