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Post by swurveman on Jul 30, 2014 19:19:27 GMT -6
As a challenge of engineering, I am trying to duplicate the drum sound of "You Don't know How It Feels" and finding it more difficult than imagined. The kick is very big, but relatively dry (without losing its size) compared to the snare, which is big as well but more roomy and either has a delay, some squashed room mic underneath or both. And then, there's the hi hat, which sounds like its a close mic, but I'm not sure. The kick and snare I believe are a combination of close mics and either overheads and rooms (or both), but I am struggling because when I add the overhead and room mics I can't blend the kick and snare to sound like Petty's song. If I add the overhead and rooms to the kick, it loses its punch. Perhaps they are EQ'ing the overheads and room mics to favor the snare. I don't know. I do know that the kick and snare have distinctly different sounds, but are both huge in different ways.
This is not your typical kick/snare combination sound. If anybody could offer some thoughts on how to get this sound, I'd appreciate it.
Frank
Here is my futile attempt so far:
https%3A//soundcloud.com/songflowerrecording/small-town-july-30
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Post by jeromemason on Jul 30, 2014 19:22:40 GMT -6
when I add the overhead and room mics I can't blend the kick and snare to sound like Petty's song. If I add the overhead and rooms to the kick, it loses its punch. Is your phase right on the rooms and overheads when you solo them WITH the kick and snare? |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jul 30, 2014 20:08:05 GMT -6
As a challenge of engineering, I am trying to duplicate the drum sound of "You Don't know How It Feels" and finding it more difficult than imagined. The kick is very big, but relatively dry (without losing its size) compared to the snare, which is big as well but more roomy and either has a delay, some squashed room mic underneath or both. And then, there's the hi hat, which sounds like its a close mic, but I'm not sure. The kick and snare I believe are a combination of close mics and either overheads and rooms (or both), but I am struggling because when I add the overhead and room mics I can't blend the kick and snare to sound like Petty's song. If I add the overhead and rooms to the kick, it loses its punch. Perhaps they are EQ'ing the overheads and room mics to favor the snare. I don't know. I do know that the kick and snare have distinctly different sounds, but are both huge in different ways. This is not your typical kick/snare combination sound. If anybody could offer some thoughts on how to get this sound, I'd appreciate it. Frank Here is my futile attempt so far: https%3A//soundcloud.com/songflowerrecording/small-town-july-30Is this the track from the album without crashes or is that a different one? |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,954 
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Post by ericn on Jul 30, 2014 20:21:56 GMT -6
I'm with Tony
I leave the 2 buss alone except if there is something that absolutely needs fixing.
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Post by winetree on Jul 31, 2014 0:56:09 GMT -6
Ericn,
I can't listen your soundcloud mixes, I need to update my system and I.E.
But the drums on the Petty tune sound like the big room at Sound City.
A combo of room and close micing thru that Neve console. They didn't need a lot of tricks.
They knew that room, where to place the drums and the mics to get that sound.
The studio was famous for it's drum sound.
It's hard to duplicate that sound without a great sounding kit, a big room, and great set-up.
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Post by unit7 on Jul 31, 2014 3:11:18 GMT -6
Sorry for not having anything to bring to the table, just wanted to say how much I love this album. Somebody told me that they did alternate mixes on all songs on the album, both on analog and digital desks, and then chose what they liked the best. Have no idea if it's true though.
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Post by gouge on Jul 31, 2014 3:20:43 GMT -6
I don't know the answer but I'd try MS out in front. set at seat height about 6 foot out.
that's the only method I've been able to get that type of sound. I call it the albini sound.
MS gets you the focus and punch of the kick and snare with the huge room sound of the room.
you can also try both card and Omni on the mid mic for different sounds. akg/c12 type mics work well. |
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Post by gouge on Jul 31, 2014 3:24:30 GMT -6
here is my attempt. raw track attached. it's a little wetter than your example but feeding in a little more of the close mics and or reducing the side mic can help adjust that.
https%3A//soundcloud.com/studiogestalt/track-1
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Post by tonycamphd on Jul 31, 2014 7:30:58 GMT -6
The TP record sounds great! The drums are way out front on my iPhone, yes, I just woke up, still laying here lol, and it sounds great on an iPhone speaker 8)
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Post by henge on Jul 31, 2014 7:39:31 GMT -6
I think it's Keltner on that tune right?
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Post by matt on Jul 31, 2014 7:56:29 GMT -6
There's a shaker or something like it panned hard left. Through earbuds it sounds like I'm standing just in front of the kit and above a little. It's the Sound City room, with Rick Rubin, Jeff Scott, and Joe Barresi at the desk. Killer ambiance. Kick and snare up the middle, hats panned a bit to the right but they seem to drift around. Could be the mangled youtube audio affecting the stereo field.
Thanks for posting, I haven't listened to this in a long time. Great production.
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Post by unit7 on Jul 31, 2014 8:04:04 GMT -6
I think it's Keltner on that tune right? Nope, Steve Ferrone on all tracks on that album, except on 'To find a friend' drums played by Ringo Starr! |
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Post by tonycamphd on Jul 31, 2014 8:09:44 GMT -6
here is my attempt. raw track attached. it's a little wetter than your example but feeding in a little more of the close mics and or reducing the side mic can help adjust that. https%3A//soundcloud.com/studiogestalt/track-1cool, that snare sounds like a loose tuned 14" rack tom with a strainer on it 8) |
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Post by tonycamphd on Jul 31, 2014 8:18:47 GMT -6
I think it's Keltner on that tune right? Nope, Steve Ferrone on all tracks on that album, except on 'To find a friend' drums played by Ringo Starr! drum track makes the TP tune imo, i usually gauge drums by how they stand alone(see bonham out takes), this drum track simple as it is, is stoney and swingy and can be enjoyed with no other music. Steve F is a heavy weight musician, there is a lot more than just 2/4 boom tap going on there. |
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Post by matt on Jul 31, 2014 8:22:21 GMT -6
From an article posted on BMI:
Using Sound City’s exceptional ambiance as their chief weapon, Rubin and Scott set out to capture the beautiful simplicity of Ferrone’s backbeat during the making of Wildflower‘s lead-off single, “You Don’t Know How It Feels.”
“They really put up a lot of room mics on that one,” recalls Ferrone. “Since Sound City’s such an old room, there can be a lot of buzzes and stuff at first. But once you work it for a bit, it sounds fantastic. You can hear that.
“After a few takes Rick didn’t like the way the cymbals were crashing in the room,” continues Ferrone, “so I just said, ‘Why don’t I just play the part without any crashes at all and you can overdub them after?’ He said, ‘Cool!’ And we did it that way for just one take, and that turned out to be the take they used. Only we forgot to go back and add the cymbal parts! Ever since then all these people would come up to me and say, ‘You know, I kept waiting for a crash all the way through that song . . . and there never was one. Great idea!’ And of course it was a total accident.”
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 31, 2014 8:35:33 GMT -6
It's the room, the room, plus the ultimate Neve console, plus the drummer's snare hand and the way it's tuned and miked. I'd say try a little gate on the snare to get closer to the Petty track. This is a fun experiment, good luck.
Oh, you MUST check out Dave Grohl's movie "Sound City", it explains a lot.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jul 31, 2014 8:45:34 GMT -6
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Post by swurveman on Jul 31, 2014 9:30:42 GMT -6
This track doesn't have crashes. I don't know about the album. I believe they were going to overdub the crashes, but decided not to. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jul 31, 2014 9:33:19 GMT -6
This track doesn't have crashes. I don't know about the album. I believe they were going to overdub the crashes, but decided not to. The album does, track doesn't. Really grooves. I was on my phone last night and didn't get a listen, but checked it out this morning. Your track sounds good. As everyone above said, you need some more room on the track. I'll agree with that statement. You're in the ballpark though. A bit more work and I think you'll be where you want to be. Nice work. |
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Post by swurveman on Jul 31, 2014 9:34:18 GMT -6
Is your phase right on the rooms and overheads when you solo them WITH the kick and snare? I'll check. Thanks. I've read about delaying the ambient mics by a few milliseconds to get rid of the slight phasing. |
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Post by swurveman on Jul 31, 2014 9:39:09 GMT -6
I don't know the answer but I'd try MS out in front. set at seat height about 6 foot out.
that's the only method I've been able to get that type of sound. I call it the albini sound.
MS gets you the focus and punch of the kick and snare with the huge room sound of the room.
you can also try both card and Omni on the mid mic for different sounds. akg/c12 type mics work well. I've got a mono mic to work with that focuses on the kick and snare. Too late for the MS, but thanks for the tip. |
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Post by swurveman on Jul 31, 2014 9:44:14 GMT -6
It's the room, the room, plus the ultimate Neve console, plus the drummer's snare hand and the way it's tuned and miked. I'd say try a little gate on the snare to get closer to the Petty track. This is a fun experiment, good luck. Oh, you MUST check out Dave Grohl's movie "Sound City", it explains a lot. Yeah, the tuning/tone of the snare is really great. Adds a lot to the overall pop. I wonder how much of the hi hat sound it bleeding through the snare, if any at all. I'll check out the gating. Thanks. |
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Post by swurveman on Jul 31, 2014 9:45:53 GMT -6
This track doesn't have crashes. I don't know about the album. I believe they were going to overdub the crashes, but decided not to. The album does, track doesn't. Really grooves. I was on my phone last night and didn't get a listen, but checked it out this morning. Your track sounds good. As everyone above said, you need some more room on the track. I'll agree with that statement. You're in the ballpark though. A bit more work and I think you'll be where you want to be. Nice work. Thanks. I'm going to look at the room phasing with the close mics and see if that clears things up. |
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Post by swurveman on Jul 31, 2014 9:49:03 GMT -6
I'm with Tony I leave the 2 buss alone except if there is something that absolutely needs fixing. I used the API 2500 on the close drum bus- with a UAD 1176 crushing the room mics and then layering them in- and a bit of Smart C2 on the 2 Buss. I'll take off the Smart and see what happens. Thanks. |
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Post by gouge on Jul 31, 2014 17:15:17 GMT -6
here is my attempt. raw track attached. it's a little wetter than your example but feeding in a little more of the close mics and or reducing the side mic can help adjust that. https%3A//soundcloud.com/studiogestalt/track-1cool, that snare sounds like a loose tuned 14" rack tom with a strainer on it 8) it's an 8" 1970's premier snare tuned to medium with a drum dial. 2 pieces of moon gel on the top. mics were atm45 on top and ksm137 under.
you raise a good point about loose tuning. the kick in my sample is tuned loose. I had a drum tech I know come in and tune the kit just prior to that session. he left the snare as is but tunes his kicks loose which makes the kick sound much much bigger than I could get with a normallish tension.
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