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Post by gmichael on Jun 15, 2024 21:06:22 GMT -6
Gene "back in de House"!  Will ketchup here before bed... Chris Greetings kind friend! Thanks so much for staying touch through it all..it means a lot to me
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Post by gmichael on Jun 15, 2024 21:10:43 GMT -6
Thats the most efficient way to go about it to me. Just slapping it across the vocal can be made an even worse process without the anchoring reference.
Also, with sample pianos, we can adjust the tuning of piano to close the gap if it's just a piano/vox track. Not always ideal but sometimes it works a charm
Great tip! Didn’t know you could do that…can it be done with guitar tracks? Or do I need to play/program in piano chords (even if there’s no piano in the song) and go from there? And do you need the more expensive versions to do that? Thx Gits can get weird really quick and it's usually preferable to re-tune the guitar and retrack it,IF it's the only source of pitch it can work but I find melodyning guitars to a practice of diminishing returns. I'm sure it can be done but i find it much harder than tuning bad vocals. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 15, 2024 22:04:42 GMT -6
I finally figured out that it I scanned the piano with melodyne and then scanned the vocals, it does a reasonable job. Thats the most efficient way to go about it to me. Just slapping it across the vocal can be made an even worse process without the anchoring reference. Also, with sample pianos, we can adjust the tuning of piano to close the gap if it's just a piano/vox track. Not always ideal but sometimes it works a charm
Wait…what? You can make it follow an external reference? Like making the vocal snap to a slightly out of tune piano? |
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Post by russellcreekps on Jun 16, 2024 13:03:52 GMT -6
Thats the most efficient way to go about it to me. Just slapping it across the vocal can be made an even worse process without the anchoring reference. Also, with sample pianos, we can adjust the tuning of piano to close the gap if it's just a piano/vox track. Not always ideal but sometimes it works a charm
Wait…what? You can make it follow an external reference? Like making the vocal snap to a slightly out of tune piano? I would love to know how to do this… |
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Post by chessparov on Jun 16, 2024 15:50:54 GMT -6
Carefully?  |
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Post by Shadowk on Jun 17, 2024 5:43:30 GMT -6
For me melodyne is a just another tool with its own sound. If you want that not a hair out of place silky pop sound it’s great. Ironically though I don’t find it to be the best tuning tool, you already have to be good or it will sound weird.
Chances are if you are that good then you’ll be close enough constantly to nail it anyway. So it’s an effect plugin imv, personally I use it on backing vox all the time but for lead rarely if ever. Like a guitar bend sometimes I purposely mess around with tuning for effect or mood and in context it works perfectly. Melodyne always makes it sound weird.
For less than stellar like others mentioned I’d usually go Antares.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jun 17, 2024 7:12:08 GMT -6
Let me be clear, I don't tune the piano,I just let melowdyne scan it to learn the chords. Tuning can be to the piano or your choice of scale type and pitch. It can also read a guitar.
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Post by ml on Jun 17, 2024 8:09:54 GMT -6
Idk if it’s different in Australia, but I’d be lucky to ever get another job if I ask for $2500 US a track. It’s just not happening. Or maybe it would happen twice a year…but I definitely undervalue myself and I should probably be screaming my hard fought accolades in this industry from the mountain top…but it’s just not my personality. I DESPISE sales. But there’s not another job I can do that I can make this much money with this little time put in it. Now - I need MORE of those jobs, but hell - sometimes I can probably make like $80/hour and up when I consider how much time I’m actually spending on it. And by no means do I mean I’m skimping on these people…I track at the same studio and hire session guys…so there aren’t ever really any surprises. They use PT and so do I, so I have a template that I start with…so if I’m pulling session data from another tune from like the last time I was in, it’s pretty much 75% there. It’s awesome. I’ve slowly raised my prices around 25-35% for new people and people haven’t really batted an eye. But in reality, the $1000/song seems to be the sweet spot at the moment. I feel you on this one, negotiating fees in the music industry absolutely sucks, whether it’s for live performance or production work. People actually think you want to play at their wedding for free lol. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 17, 2024 8:39:15 GMT -6
Idk if it’s different in Australia, but I’d be lucky to ever get another job if I ask for $2500 US a track. It’s just not happening. Or maybe it would happen twice a year…but I definitely undervalue myself and I should probably be screaming my hard fought accolades in this industry from the mountain top…but it’s just not my personality. I DESPISE sales. But there’s not another job I can do that I can make this much money with this little time put in it. Now - I need MORE of those jobs, but hell - sometimes I can probably make like $80/hour and up when I consider how much time I’m actually spending on it. And by no means do I mean I’m skimping on these people…I track at the same studio and hire session guys…so there aren’t ever really any surprises. They use PT and so do I, so I have a template that I start with…so if I’m pulling session data from another tune from like the last time I was in, it’s pretty much 75% there. It’s awesome. I’ve slowly raised my prices around 25-35% for new people and people haven’t really batted an eye. But in reality, the $1000/song seems to be the sweet spot at the moment. I feel you on this one, negotiating fees in the music industry absolutely sucks, whether it’s for live performance or production work. People actually think you want to play at their wedding for free lol. We only have to be the lyricist, musician, singer, producer, mixer, masterer, we also have to be therapist, marketing and accounting too. |
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Post by wiz on Jun 17, 2024 15:45:30 GMT -6
I feel you on this one, negotiating fees in the music industry absolutely sucks, whether it’s for live performance or production work. People actually think you want to play at their wedding for free lol. We only have to be the lyricist, musician, singer, producer, mixer, masterer, we also have to be therapist, marketing and accounting too. That last sentence is why I stopped doing recording for money. I was getting cynical. A client asked me after we listened to his vocal take….” Doesn’t that just make you want to cry?”……. Referring to the fact he thought it was a moving performance (it was pretty bad) and I replied…..”not quite but it’s pretty bad”…… was time to stop…. I just couldn’t take it anymore cheers Wiz |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 17, 2024 16:42:59 GMT -6
We only have to be the lyricist, musician, singer, producer, mixer, masterer, we also have to be therapist, marketing and accounting too. That last sentence is why I stopped doing recording for money. I was getting cynical. A client asked me after we listened to his vocal take….” Doesn’t that just make you want to cry?”……. Referring to the fact he thought it was a moving performance (it was pretty bad) and I replied…..”not quite but it’s pretty bad”…… was time to stop…. I just couldn’t take it anymore cheers Wiz Holy shit. I’d never work again if I had that high a standard lol. It’s the cringiest part to me - people wanting the praise…but it’s part of the evolution of making music. I remember when I cared whether people liked my music or not. Lol. But yes - I totally understand where you’re coming from. The immediate “tell” in the studio if someone is a greenhorn or not is when they’re searching for a cookie/pat on the head. Like - you’re gonna be the one that this 15 year session guy is gonna go home and talk to his wife about. “Honey, you wouldn’t believe how talented this guy is that I played on today…I now can retire.” That being said - YOU KNOW when the players are interested - you don’t have to ask. But they are pros and give the same amount of effort regardless - at least anyone I’m gonna hire. They’re there to do a job, not be a snob. Sorry for the babble |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 17, 2024 16:45:42 GMT -6
Also - marketing is just something I despise. I always suss out what the goals are with clients…and I always tell them I can’t “make them a star” and won’t solicit anyone on their behalf. If you want to find someone to sell you the dream, they’re out there. I will give you a professional, competitive product from the song you give me…but what you do with it is up to you.
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Post by drumsound on Jun 17, 2024 16:58:20 GMT -6
We only have to be the lyricist, musician, singer, producer, mixer, masterer, we also have to be therapist, marketing and accounting too. That last sentence is why I stopped doing recording for money. I was getting cynical. A client asked me after we listened to his vocal take….” Doesn’t that just make you want to cry?”……. Referring to the fact he thought it was a moving performance (it was pretty bad) and I replied…..”not quite but it’s pretty bad”…… was time to stop…. I just couldn’t take it anymore cheers Wiz HAHAHAHA Who among us hasn't WANTED to say that to a client? |
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Post by russellcreekps on Jun 17, 2024 19:41:48 GMT -6
I have a day job but still make some decent walking around money doing it on the side…yes I have no time for myself but I also have no kids, and all my friends do, so what else am I gonna do in my spare time?! Hehe. I think it’s a nice middle ground because I can pick and choose who I work with…like do it for the love of the music, not to pay the bills. I remember really trying hard to make it a full time gig, taking anyone willing to pay and wanting to shoot myself in the face way too often. Now being a big time producer/mixer, that must be pretty damn cool…working with the best talent all the time!
PS. $2500 CAD ($25 USD) is pretty standard here for full production, mix and tuning…meaning a singer/songwriter type client (not a band).
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Post by russellcreekps on Jul 6, 2024 17:25:08 GMT -6
Agreed to work with a client who comes to the monthly open mic I host, cuz he seemed like a great raw talent. I now know ‘raw’ doesn’t work for me, lol. Spent two full days tracking vox and even after that amount of time, just spent an entire day tuning, and only got through the verses….choruses tmrw. He wants to work on more tracks together, but I’m not so sure…I’m torn because his songs are good and he has a ton of potential, but I can’t lose this much time on another production with him. What do others typically do in this type of scenario? (Besides wiz, hehe). Thinking contract the time consuming stuff out (I pity the fool that takes the job!), just a hard pass, or something else? |
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Post by drumsound on Jul 6, 2024 18:07:30 GMT -6
Agreed to work with a client who comes to the monthly open mic I host, cuz he seemed like a great raw talent. I now know ‘raw’ doesn’t work for me, lol. Spent two full days tracking vox and even after that amount of time, just spent an entire day tuning, and only got through the verses….choruses tmrw. He wants to work on more tracks together, but I’m not so sure…I’m torn because his songs are good and he has a ton of potential, but I can’t lose this much time on another production with him. What do others typically do in this type of scenario? (Besides wiz , hehe). Thinking contract the time consuming stuff out (I pity the fool that takes the job!), just a hard pass, or something else? Honestly, I charge hourly. |
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Post by russellcreekps on Jul 6, 2024 18:12:25 GMT -6
Thx, yeah I would do that but I don’t think I’m efficient enough yet to feel fair about charging hourly.
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Post by drumsound on Jul 6, 2024 18:21:24 GMT -6
Thx, yeah I would do that but I don’t think I’m efficient enough yet to feel fair about charging hourly. Working is working. Some things take time, and that's all there is to it. |
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Post by russellcreekps on Jul 6, 2024 18:24:15 GMT -6
True dat! But I thought music wouldn’t be work |
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Post by teejay on Jul 7, 2024 16:36:13 GMT -6
I admire the work and talent it takes to make terrible to mediocre sound deceptively good. I just don’t know how these people do anything acceptable live.
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Post by russellcreekps on Jul 7, 2024 19:03:03 GMT -6
I admire the work and talent it takes to make terrible to mediocre sound deceptively good. I just don’t know how these people do anything acceptable live. Me too! (on the first point) …I’m banging my head against the wall with this client! Damn I really dislike tuning bad singers…so much more enjoyable (and way less time consuming) when it’s just a little fix here and there, but doing almost the whole track is killing me! …once I tune one line (not hard), it makes the next one obviously out, then gotta go back and make sure they all sound authentic with all other lines, etc etc etc. K, venting done, nose to the grindstone again. On your second point, there’s a very well known singer in a big band (who shall remain nameless)…they came out probably a little before tuning was a big thing. Recently heard he’s know to do a ridiculous amount of overdubs. Heard them live twice years ago, sounds like a phenomenal vocalist on recordings, but live was terrible. Thought maybe the first time was just a bad night, maybe a cold, so gave em a second shot…wanted my money back after the 2nd date. Imo, shouldn’t do anything live (professionally) if you’re bad enough that people would want a refund. chessparov I can only dream! |
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Post by chessparov on Jul 7, 2024 20:16:03 GMT -6
And on the 8th Day... Drunken Karaoke was created. |
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Post by paulcheeba on Jul 8, 2024 0:56:02 GMT -6
I’m lucky I don’t have to deal with any. Life is too short.
I can’t stand bad bass playing and having wasted months of my life cutting up tracks and I refuse to do that anymore.
I touch up singing with Melodyne a little and time BV’s with vocalign. I usually just run BV’s through auto tune if I can get away with it.
At the moment I’m doing my favourite thing which is drum libraries and these guys are so good it’s easy just gating the the kick and toms. The groove falls into place.
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Post by chessparov on Jul 8, 2024 1:18:53 GMT -6
I find the great Popular Music Singers who were Drummers (at least for a time/Paging Marvin/T.P./Peter Rivera (Rare Earth)/Levon Helm/ Karen Carpenter et al )... To be a fascinating sub set. Mel Torme' was a darn good Jazz Drummer too! Chris |
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Post by ninworks on Jul 8, 2024 2:33:42 GMT -6
I find the great Popular Music Singers who were Drummers (at least for a time/Paging Marvin/T.P./Peter Rivera (Rare Earth)/Levon Helm/ Karen Carpenter et al )... To be a fascinating sub set. Mel Torme' was a darn good Jazz Drummer too! Chris I agree. Phil Collins, Steve Perry, Gino Vannelli, were also drummers. |
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