How do you deal with tuning "non-singers"

That's basically my whole business these days...And it's a weird spot for a "producer." I usually say with these jobs, "I don't want to borrow any trouble..." Meaning, I'm not going to tell this guy from Iowa that I think the vocal sounds tuned to hell and back because it HAD to be. I'm not going to say, "Man, I really think you could sing that second line better..." (if they're singing remotely that is) or "Let me take another stab at that whole vocal." I'm not going to create more work for myself. I already do half the time...I'll hear something that bothers me in a bounce and I just can't let it go...even though the client would most assuredly not even notice.

But they're getting what they're paying for...and the way I look at it, for the most part, they aren't paying me for vocal production. It's amazing how this is the onyl freaking job in the world where there's no set pricing. In a day where a carton of Milk is $6, and streaming pays $.0005 per impression to the songwriters...people still bitch and moan about paying my pittance of a fee. In my instance, they're paying me to be a producer like a movie producer and then get music production basically for free. I coordinate everything, handle the session, mix and master. If you want to make a record, you're gonna have to pay for it.

Everyone with a computer and a $100 interface is making music now. It's been devalued to the point that a single in 1962 cost $.99 and it's a $1.29...so 30 cents in 60 years. On top of that the mechanical royalty has been set by a "Copyright Royalty Board" since the early 1900s...The rate for a mechanical royalty was .02 cents in 1907. 117 years later it's $12.4 cents. How lucky we are.

So - if no one else values me, I'm determined to value myself.

Like there's a gun to my head, and the bank's about to pull the trigger

So, question. If I am playing guitar, bass, whatever, if something is a couple cents out, I can hear it. If I try to sing, I can’t carry a tune in abucket. Abysmal. That doesn’t make sense to me that I can hear instruments marginally out, but I can’t hear it when I sing. Maddening. I would love to be a decent singer.

Edit: Is there any hope for me to become a half way decent singer?Plus its not like I have a voice with much character. Think Neil Young but thin and reedy. Ok, even thinner and reedier. And, I’m sixty. So what little range I had, is probably not going to improve much. I just find it very curious I can’t hear how out of tune I am while singing, and can’t adjust. Baffling to me.

Cheers,
Geoff

I try to at least do a blank check first.

Just went through it with a singer/talker guy who basically hates his voice.
lots of careful discussion during multiple takes..cadence and rhythm, lots of comping and lots of patience

I bet you’re charging more than I do lol.

Then again, maybe AI voices aren't that bad after all...

Kinda like Don Kirshner's progression, from The Monkees, to The Archies.
Not sure if I'm a Believer yet though.

The folks who bitch about upfront basic fee schedules get a pass from me. They aren't the demographic imo. Someone who comes in with an appreciation of their own time and the bucks to indulge in their dream will be more likely to value your time and your money. I don't work for free ever. I'll work cheap for those on a tight budget but are making a run up the hill and have legit invested in being their very best and can handle the uncomfortable (for some) truths about where the holes are in their presentation.It's typically arrangement voicings stuff as you'd know,maybe some pitch issues on the range extensions but to me that's easily sorted with proper vocal technique training. The ones who aren't even close to pitch but either can't or won't hear it get charged full rates and I'm happy as to explain it. You'd think that would chase the money off but it doesn't really. The ones it chases off were likely always gonna be a problem to get paid from so I'm grateful they just feck off under their own steam. But I don't take this kind of work as diminishing of my ability, I mean I used to but economics insist I get over myself and trudge on. I guess the option to go out and get some soul destroying job exists but I prefer to reassess my expectations and do what I ultimately gives me a better sense of myself. I can't or won't be judging myself on the gauge of work done for people who aren't  artists and don't have the creators soul. That they might not fully understand or appreciate what they are asking isn't my job to explain to someone who still won't fully appreciate what I'm offering except for the fee I charge, that they can appreciate and it gives them a metric to go by. For vocals that never stand a chance without complete tuning butchery, I charge for that almost as much for assembling a basic production. So a track I might have been able to adminstrate and produce for a few thousand bucks +/- with great players etc now costs between 4500-7000aud . Not sure we are supposed to disclose this type of info but I'm not bashful about my money at all. For an original song written for that person of course it's more. Letting someone sing badly over a song written for them is hard but I suppose this is where the life lesson of letting go is most needed. So I say John, charge accordingly for these extraordinary add ons, get your money, do the job and find a path to  gratitude because these jobs keep the shingle out for when those jobs who know how to appreciate you and respect your gift and guidance come along. We aren't  the sum of one job, we are in this for the long haul and to whatever extent in it to win it on our own terms. There are so many more people that do music because they can, I strongly sense you do music because it's who you actually are. People like us just have to be who we are. 

Idk if it’s different in Australia, but I’d be lucky to ever get another job if I ask for $2500 US a track. It’s just not happening. Or maybe it would happen twice a year…but I definitely undervalue myself and I should probably be screaming my hard fought accolades in this industry from the mountain top…but it’s just not my personality. I DESPISE sales.

But there’s not another job I can do that I can make this much money with this little time put in it. Now - I need MORE of those jobs, but hell - sometimes I can probably make like $80/hour and up when I consider how much time I’m actually spending on it. And by no means do I mean I’m skimping on these people…I track at the same studio and hire session guys…so there aren’t ever really any surprises. They use PT and so do I, so I have a template that I start with…so if I’m pulling session data from another tune from like the last time I was in, it’s pretty much 75% there. It’s awesome.

I’ve slowly raised my prices around 25-35% for new people and people haven’t really batted an eye. But in reality, the $1000/song seems to be the sweet spot at the moment.

Average track here is about 3k. There are many that will work for far less but that's they also have a reputation often for never delivering. The past year rates have increased but Ithink client base determines rate. I don't have much competition in my patch and those clients who choose me can afford it. States is saturated market and so much comp drives down fees maybe. If it were me I would find a way to have a story of an experience to sell, people want an experience and to be part of a story i think

Great tip!  Didn’t know you could do that…can it be done with guitar tracks?  Or do I need to play/program in piano chords (even if there’s no piano in the song) and go from there?  And do you need the more expensive versions to do that?  Thx