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Post by svart on May 16, 2024 13:58:14 GMT -6
Having built a 33609/2254, the biggest issue would be calibration and potential drift. It's hard to get these things calibrated correctly. Did you see all those pots on the board in the video? There's like a dozen pots that need to be set and a lot of them can only be set in a certain order or it won't work. I'd fear that the cheapness would eventually show up in parts drifting in tolerance and the calibration going out of whack. It's possible they scaled the circuit values to mitigate how touchy the pot settings are, but I doubt it. Welp, there goes my plan of buying 2x Alctron 540s to have an ersatz 33609. I might be inclined to think the Alctrons might be more "authentic" to the original design. Pics of the 540 guts look much less cluttered and the transformers look more like copies in terms of size/shape/build than the "midas" transformers in the Berhringer. |
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Post by christophert on May 16, 2024 15:15:48 GMT -6
Use a plugin
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Post by chessparov on May 16, 2024 15:31:07 GMT -6
Emu's will never fly.  |
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Post by jacobamerritt on May 16, 2024 15:45:20 GMT -6
If this sounds as good as the UAD 33609 doing about 2-3 dB of reduction (just kissing it) over my mix bus, I would be pretty happy with it. It's not so much the compression characteristic I like about the 33609 on a master bus, it's more the tone. Rounds off the low end just a little bit while making it feel punchier, and a slightly more open sounding high end (although I've always kind of suspected that it's more of a slight harmonic excitement in the high end than anything). This thing will have to have that same color to it to sell me on it, I'm rarely using a 33609 to push drums or anything hard. I do use it on acoustic guitars quite a bit, and I heard a similar kind of pleasant improvement in the Behringer video on their acoustic guitar sample. If its only 'as good' but not better, Im curious why you would spend money on hardware to replace a plugin you already have. Or maybe you don't have that plugin, but like it from trialing? |
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Post by andersmv on May 16, 2024 16:01:35 GMT -6
If this sounds as good as the UAD 33609 doing about 2-3 dB of reduction (just kissing it) over my mix bus, I would be pretty happy with it. It's not so much the compression characteristic I like about the 33609 on a master bus, it's more the tone. Rounds off the low end just a little bit while making it feel punchier, and a slightly more open sounding high end (although I've always kind of suspected that it's more of a slight harmonic excitement in the high end than anything). This thing will have to have that same color to it to sell me on it, I'm rarely using a 33609 to push drums or anything hard. I do use it on acoustic guitars quite a bit, and I heard a similar kind of pleasant improvement in the Behringer video on their acoustic guitar sample. If its only 'as good' but not better, Im curious why you would spend money on hardware to replace a plugin you already have. Or maybe you don't have that plugin, but like it from trialing? I've been using the plugin forever. I was just saying it for the sake of argument (there was a comment about comparing it to a plugin) that if it sounded as good as the UA plugin, I think it would be worth the money. So ya, my baseline for it as hardware would probably be "it needs to sound better than the UAD plugin". |
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Post by Oneiro on May 16, 2024 16:55:42 GMT -6
As far as clones and all that, it's similar to music and art in general. A lot more noise, a lot less informed/experienced ears who are making their thing work. They're having fun, it's not a big deal. More access, more democracy. Hard to argue against the progress. It all sounds fine.
But sometimes you hear truly great work where you can feel a more careful approach was taken and surprise, surprise, there's just a lot more cork-sniffing or whatnot. You find out the tech modded stuff with old transformers, the producer has a crazy weird desk, they went to a million old school studios with the OG stuff, etc. I'm not saying that's always the case, but sometimes what I think some long for are the days of bigger, stable companies that don't compromise - and that just doesn't exist anymore. It's just a different time. Now, if you want immense attention to detail, it will be a smaller shop doing batches, usually a former tech who knows their shit and is making stuff for people who know what they're after and can hear a difference. Is it THE difference? Of course not.
In the end, it's a meal. It could be your kitchen or it could be Noma or whatnot. No one else but you can tell you that something tastes good, but it often helps to know what those three star Michelin places are capable of.
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Post by copperx on May 16, 2024 18:12:54 GMT -6
Welp, there goes my plan of buying 2x Alctron 540s to have an ersatz 33609. I might be inclined to think the Alctrons might be more "authentic" to the original design. Pics of the 540 guts look much less cluttered and the transformers look more like copies in terms of size/shape/build than the "midas" transformers in the Berhringer.
A bit tangential, but I got the N-Sonic (Alctron) 1073, and I thought it sounded great but felt that it had a little bit less high end extension and not so focused mids compared to the AML ez1073. After reading the manual of the GAP Pre-73, of which the Alctron is a copy, I realized that it comes with the 600 ohm termination by default. I switched it to the normal termination and lo and behold, I can't tell them apart. It's a bit crazy because the Alctron is using bargain-basement transformers while the AML has Carnhills.
I mention this because, isn't the 2254 basically a 1073 plus the diode bridge, or something like that? (I'm no EE). Maybe Alctron nailed it. I need to try the 540.
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Post by doubledog on May 16, 2024 21:02:51 GMT -6
I thought it was the other way around - I thought Alctron was the OEM (or at least the base model) of all these other brands (like GAP, etc)? |
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Post by thehightenor on May 17, 2024 2:37:08 GMT -6
What are you guys doing with your 33609?
I’ve never really found a use for it where I haven’t preferred a different compressor.
I really don’t like them on the mix bus - it’s a meh for me - I considerably prefer a vari-mu (sometimes paired with an ssl VCA)
I have used one on a piano oh pair - sounded pretty good there.
Generally though, I always struggled to love this comp - looking for enlightenment.
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on May 17, 2024 3:43:01 GMT -6
I do wonder whether stuff like this is better than a quality plug emu...I have no idea honestly. Real transformers, would likely sound better than code? |
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Post by thehightenor on May 17, 2024 4:00:06 GMT -6
I do wonder whether stuff like this is better than a quality plug emu...I have no idea honestly. Real transformers, would likely sound better than code? I’ve discovered on my journey to ITB channel mixing that once you have some really decent hardware colouration on the stereo mix bus that this top down effect means you’re not looking for it in the same way from plug-ins as you already have enough on tap on the stereo bus. |
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Post by kcatthedog on May 17, 2024 4:02:04 GMT -6
Agreed, I use my ob always while tracking and then find I use less plugs while mixing.
But, I have been flirting with getting a few special comps to use during mix down: a 33609 clone would be one of those: loved the ua plug on my drum buss.
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Post by lowlou on May 17, 2024 4:25:54 GMT -6
All this is doing is making me want the Stam or Audioscape clones.
No trust in Behringer, and by extension, chinese factories.
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Post by thehightenor on May 17, 2024 5:03:28 GMT -6
All this is doing is making me want the Stam or Audioscape clones. No trust in Behringer, and by extension, chinese factories. hey I have some Audioscpae gear and it's fantastic as is all my boutique hand made British and USA gear. But equally I have a Behringer X32 digital mix desk and compact XR18 digital mixer that have been workhorse units for my band and are made in China. So there's nothing inherently wrong with a factories location. My apple iPhone is made in China. Focusrute Clarrett's are made in China are they are beautifully made. I have several Fender Classic Vibe guitars that were made in China and the fit and finish exceed guitars costing far more. Some Chinese stuff is cr*p but so is some stuff made elsewhere. I think one has to be careful about broad sweeping generalised statements. |
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Post by lowlou on May 17, 2024 5:10:27 GMT -6
The problem, *for me*, is about human rights, mainly ! I avoid chinese and russian products for the time being.
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Post by thehightenor on May 17, 2024 6:01:01 GMT -6
The problem, *for me*, is about human rights, mainly ! I avoid chinese and russian products for the time being. Ah I see - fair enough. |
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Post by lowlou on May 17, 2024 6:23:46 GMT -6
(I hate that the Behringer Moog Taurus clone sounds so good...)
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Post by drumsound on May 17, 2024 9:46:30 GMT -6
(I hate that the Behringer Moog Taurus clone sounds so good...) The synth division is where they excel. |
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Post by copperx on May 17, 2024 10:31:22 GMT -6
What are you guys doing with your 33609? I’ve never really found a use for it where I haven’t preferred a different compressor. I really don’t like them on the mix bus - it’s a meh for me - I considerably prefer a vari-mu (sometimes paired with an ssl VCA) I have used one on a piano oh pair - sounded pretty good there. Generally though, I always struggled to love this comp - looking for enlightenment.
1-2 db reduction on the drum bus makes it sing, although my experience is with the Chandler LTD-2.
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Post by svart on May 17, 2024 10:53:51 GMT -6
I might be inclined to think the Alctrons might be more "authentic" to the original design. Pics of the 540 guts look much less cluttered and the transformers look more like copies in terms of size/shape/build than the "midas" transformers in the Berhringer.
A bit tangential, but I got the N-Sonic (Alctron) 1073, and I thought it sounded great but felt that it had a little bit less high end extension and not so focused mids compared to the AML ez1073. After reading the manual of the GAP Pre-73, of which the Alctron is a copy, I realized that it comes with the 600 ohm termination by default. I switched it to the normal termination and lo and behold, I can't tell them apart. It's a bit crazy because the Alctron is using bargain-basement transformers while the AML has Carnhills.
I mention this because, isn't the 2254 basically a 1073 plus the diode bridge, or something like that? (I'm no EE). Maybe Alctron nailed it. I need to try the 540.
I think people really overblow the "magic" from certain parts. It's more important that the sum of the parts is equivalent in overall design and function. And yes, the 2254 is essentially a 1073 preamp with the diode bridge and another interstage transformer. |
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Post by chessparov on May 17, 2024 11:20:46 GMT -6
All this is doing is making me want the Stam or Audioscape clones. No trust in Behringer, and by extension, chinese factories. Agree... First part. IMHO "depends/case by case" 2nd part. But... Still love to get an Audioscape Opto someday. Chris |
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Post by christopher on May 17, 2024 11:31:12 GMT -6
When I see these things, it always makes me think “someone” decided they could increase profit margins by having China build it for them, thinking they are climbing some ladder of wealth. And after the first run, the factory over there is like.. “well we could just sell these ourselves and make more profit than being hired out”
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Post by chessparov on May 17, 2024 11:35:32 GMT -6
The problem, *for me*, is about human rights, mainly ! I avoid chinese and russian products for the time being. Not an expert here-obviously. But... If working on the Oktava/Soyuz assembly line, keeps one more person NOT in a Munitions Factory. That's A-OK with me. AFAIK some Chinese Factories treat their workers better than others. Chris *Yep. I was real tempted to make some Russian and Chinese jokes.  |
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Post by christopher on May 17, 2024 11:40:33 GMT -6
Great point. I’d like it even better if they get some tech jobs, sit around all day playing videos games and drinking.. complain when the live band at lunch is only an a-lister from 20 years ago
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Post by gravesnumber9 on May 17, 2024 12:28:52 GMT -6
The problem, *for me*, is about human rights, mainly ! I avoid chinese and russian products for the time being. Not an expert here-obviously. But... If working on the Oktava/Soyuz assembly line, keeps one more person NOT in a Munitions Factory. That's A-OK with me. AFAIK some Chinese Factories treat their workers better than others. Chris *Yep. I was real tempted to make some Russian and Chinese jokes. That's exactly how I feel about it. Though without getting into the details and bogging this down in international diplomacy, China might be a little different in this respect as some businesses are state owned but, for example, I see no problem with buying a guitar from Epiphone that is maded by skilled luthiers at a Gibson owned factory in China (Masterbilt series which are awesome). |
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