|
Post by indiehouse on May 15, 2024 9:08:28 GMT -6
What’s the word on this one? I’ve largely stopped buying plugs, but this has me intrigued for some reason. Rick Carson seems like a good dude.
|
|
|
Post by indiehouse on May 15, 2024 9:11:47 GMT -6
That and his Sontec is on sale, which I remember him saying that it would be unlikely to ever go on sale.
|
|
|
Post by nomatic on May 15, 2024 9:19:40 GMT -6
The new plug is really great and so is the sontec...
|
|
|
Post by Dan on May 15, 2024 9:24:30 GMT -6
Looks cool. Sontec is cool but it advertises as a lot more than it is: a digital eq with slight distortion. The other make believe plugs are kinda stupid. Good Math lol
|
|
|
Post by nomatic on May 15, 2024 9:27:52 GMT -6
The Sontec works very well for mastering and I have owned the Knif Soma , Buzz Rec 2.2 the Berry Porter ect in Hardware.. Your comment is reductionist..
|
|
|
Post by phantom on May 15, 2024 13:40:38 GMT -6
The Sontec works very well for mastering and I have owned the Knif Soma , Buzz Rec 2.2 the Berry Porter ect in Hardware.. Your comment is reductionist.. reductionist huh?
|
|
|
Post by nomatic on May 15, 2024 14:53:31 GMT -6
I don't think reducing a plug-in that obviously was created with care and frankly performs very well can be simply reduced to a EQ with distortion. It works very much like hardware in operation.
|
|
hey212
Junior Member
Posts: 61
|
Post by hey212 on May 15, 2024 15:43:39 GMT -6
The company that did the DSP for the hardware unit, Spectral Design (now Cube-Tec), still works on plugins for Steinberg. It's too bad this isn't their plugin, they could have just ported over the original code. Although, I guess technically SPL owns that code so they would have had to license it.
|
|
|
Post by viciousbliss on May 15, 2024 15:54:14 GMT -6
The Sontec works very well for mastering and I have owned the Knif Soma , Buzz Rec 2.2 the Berry Porter ect in Hardware.. Your comment is reductionist.. You're saying it compares favorably to those hardware pieces?
|
|
|
Post by Dan on May 15, 2024 16:21:34 GMT -6
I don't think reducing a plug-in that obviously was created with care and frankly performs very well can be simply reduced to a EQ with distortion. It works very much like hardware in operation. It works nothing like the hardware. It is a prewarped bilineal transform old school digital eq with some sort of distortion on it. Either a circuit model or a polynomial wave shaping function. It has neither the phase response nor the distortion of the hardware. That is physically impossible for an eq that can be run at sample rates where the distortion and the filters alias. It is known now how to make digital eqs that work like analog filters using trapezoidal integration so it is possible to model most analog eqs as ideal models of electric circuits. Metric Halo chose not to. Also the filters alias on any eq run at 44.1 or 48 kHz. That’s what cramping is. No amount of pre warping the coefficients or post warping with a linear phase filter will make it perfect unlike simply running the eq at a higher sample rate. Even for this, any distortion or non-linear response like dynamics means you need a second anti-alias filter. The signal is upsampled, it has mirror images, these are filtered out, the signal is processed, the signal is decimated and filtered back to the starting sample rate. If the processing is linear, you can skip one of the anti alias filters. This is what pro q3 natural phase mode, eq8, and Weiss eq mp do. Metric Halo Sontec instead warps the filter.
|
|
|
Post by notneeson on May 15, 2024 16:50:35 GMT -6
If it sounds good, it is good.
|
|
|
Post by the other mark williams on May 15, 2024 17:01:57 GMT -6
If it sounds good, it is good. And the MH Sontec sounds good
|
|
|
Post by nomatic on May 15, 2024 17:35:20 GMT -6
The Sontec works very well for mastering and I have owned the Knif Soma , Buzz Rec 2.2 the Berry Porter ect in Hardware.. Your comment is reductionist.. You're saying it compares favorably to those hardware pieces? I think it does.. Frankly as my experience increases over the years the need for mixing and mastering hardware is less important. I have some very discerning mastering clients that could not tell if I switched from hardware to all in the box. The Sontec plug in is really good in use and I could easily do all my masters in the box. I love hardware as I have 6 figures worth but the tools are getting really good in software.
|
|
|
Post by tasteliketape on May 15, 2024 17:38:03 GMT -6
MH. Stated inverse gain linking the controls not with in Pro Tools . They are working on a fix
|
|
|
Post by viciousbliss on May 15, 2024 20:42:38 GMT -6
You're saying it compares favorably to those hardware pieces? I think it does.. Frankly as my experience increases over the years the need for mixing and mastering hardware is less important. I have some very discerning mastering clients that could not tell if I switched from hardware to all in the box. The Sontec plug in is really good in use and I could easily do all my masters in the box. I love hardware as I have 6 figures worth but the tools are getting really good in software. I've only ever gotten to compare the Massive Passive at Access Analog to plugins. Only the PA SPL PQ felt on par with it. Last time I compared this Sontec plugin with the PQ plugin, I vastly preferred the PQ. That PQ plugin has as much transient energy as most any hardware that I've tried. My masters can sound a little flat without it, even if I'm using stuff like a VSM-2 and a SHMC. I'm still debating about whether I really need a hardware equalizer. The Curve Bender plugin doesn't really get close in the video that's out there, but apparently a lot of other hardware eqs are much easier to emulate.
|
|
|
Post by bgrotto on May 15, 2024 21:01:33 GMT -6
the machine head plug weirdly caught my eye too. hoping we can eventually get to some discussion about that piece of software in this thread.
|
|
|
Post by the other mark williams on May 15, 2024 23:46:10 GMT -6
the machine head plug weirdly caught my eye too. hoping we can eventually get to some discussion about that piece of software in this thread. Here’s hoping! 🍺
|
|
|
Post by indiehouse on May 16, 2024 4:54:51 GMT -6
the machine head plug weirdly caught my eye too. hoping we can eventually get to some discussion about that piece of software in this thread. Pffft. It operates nothing like the hardware. This is a hyperpre pseudo-elliptical digital zapper with a hint of flux capacitor interference.
|
|
|
Post by indiehouse on May 16, 2024 4:58:25 GMT -6
But seriously tho, from what I gather, it's based on a hardware from the early 00's from SPL that was essentially running DSP, loosely based on something emulating tape? So, that begs the question, how many tape plugs does one need? How is this better than the two handfuls of tape and other saturation plugs I already have?
|
|
|
Post by nomatic on May 16, 2024 5:10:29 GMT -6
I dig the mixhead right in front of my Silver Bullet MK1. It adds just a touch of the love butter....
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on May 16, 2024 7:43:31 GMT -6
Yeah…I thought it was a really nice subtle pusherizer…but I’m usually trying to get the edge off of my recordings in my particular genre. Not much need for pushing a pedal steel into distortion.
|
|
|
Post by Dan on May 16, 2024 8:41:38 GMT -6
But seriously tho, from what I gather, it's based on a hardware from the early 00's from SPL that was essentially running DSP, loosely based on something emulating tape? So, that begs the question, how many tape plugs does one need? How is this better than the two handfuls of tape and other saturation plugs I already have? There’s no way in hell it will be better than the modern tape plugs but it might be cool effect for sample based music. A lot of the older primitive distortion stuff has unintended uses like inflator being free gain on low passed guitars, vintage warmer as a fuzz, mcdsp analog channel’s tape head bump as a crazy resonant filter, etc. the gearspace crowd defending old and primitive digital things continues in many threads or even the guys there and random audiophiles online on hifi forums who criticize anti-alias filters or if apple knows how to write a single precision multiplier and if that effects the sound. This machine head was some primitive algorithm that ran on Motorola 56k chips, the same as pro tools tdm. Now we have tape plugs over sampling massively to emulate the effect of a bias tone on the signal like Satin and Chow Tape but this might be a cool “warmifier” in some way. The old metric halo distortion plugs are pretty cool but are just a bunch of cool colored wave shapers for messing stuff up and there’s really no need to use them over something hardware modeled that’s much more complex like even decapitator and Saturn or something cleaner like the various soft clippers and stuff like apulsoft apshaper that uses novel techniques to remove digital artifacts. Quality of algorithms and sound quality went out the window years ago for popular music and supposedly professional equipment that’s unrepairable and often built with what as might as well be counterfeit parts with intentionally lofi features like clipped diodes and slew rate limiters. Gearslutz took a big nosedive a few years ago in apologizing for inferior mass market products and now you get warned or shot down by the shills for pointing it out. Some of this stuff is one step above a dull distorted Behringer jrc4580 circuit and is praised for features that were considered major sonic defects in earlier equipment. Then you have stuff like the repackaged Metric Halo channel strip exactly the same as it was 20 years ago when it was worse than the Renaissance and Oxford line but people praised it who didn’t even have to use it for low latency monitor mixes because of celebrity producer endorsement. One of these same producers also caused the craze of multibanding guitar parts instead of automating an eq or using a dynamic eq after those came out and became outdated after dynamic eq (not just in the expensive and clean Weiss EQ1-DYN) came out (Voxengo gliss and hofa iq eq are ancient but dirtier) and was then made very popular by mcdsp aea400, vladg nova-67p, and waves f6 coming out in quick succession yet people still go to ancient posts and interviews and extol outdated advice that screws up the harmonics of the tone in a gross way whenever there’s a big resonance or proximity effect and I’m not even sure that producer uses multiband processing like that anymore based on his more recent, cleaner if more uniform productions. Yes the industry had more money then but the digital tools were far worse. There’s a ton of brown and dull recordings that went trough a ton of aliased processors and others that sound like white noise and ripped paper from different processors and the loudness war. Fart bass was popular for a period in parallel on kick and bass. Is this good? Not really because it dates like the recording and not just like older recording tech or old film stock. Instead of the art aiming to create a hyper reality, it falls off into the uncanny valley. The general public is clueless and many of them don’t even know which instruments or which or what a voice with natural vibrato sounds like or even singing without vibrato. Yet always the answer from the gear industry is a new special form of distortion that will make you sound like the past or hide poor recordings made with junky equipment that now the internet won’t even acknowledge is junky.
|
|
|
Post by Dan on May 16, 2024 8:53:16 GMT -6
Yeah…I thought it was a really nice subtle pusherizer…but I’m usually trying to get the edge off of my recordings in my particular genre. Not much need for pushing a pedal steel into distortion. Honestly for voices and cymbals try tdr de-edger and my new obsession, tdr arbiter. Arbiter is like a more controllable dbx 902/520 that doesn’t sound like crap. Soothe I use on bad mics with bad hf microresonances like China and many of the independent condensers but have only needed it once or twice and was able to just render the demo. A lot of the big mic manufacturer condensers might only have 1-2 big resonances to eq (maybe dynamically eq now) out but the smaller ones can have a lot of little ones that add this harshness that soothe solves. I haven’t found out a way to get rid of overloaded capsule distortion. The tape plugs are subtle to cartoony and I only love them for junky guitar tones and fake stuff like amp sims, vsti synths, and drum kits. Stuff like Kramer tape, McDSP analog channel, and psp vintage warmer mostly add harshness.
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on May 16, 2024 9:05:21 GMT -6
That's one thing about driven sounds that I have a philosophical dissonance with...Sometimes overdriving stuff just sounds like poor engineering to me. (I know it was on purpose) I'm just saying that my initial thought is "oh man that snare is overdriving the amp" instead of "oh man, that's a bold decision to choose to overdrive that snare." Just saying, there's a fine line between cool distortion and a mistake...
|
|
|
Post by gravesnumber9 on May 16, 2024 9:36:40 GMT -6
Slightly off topic but more on topic than we were before... their plugins look hilarious. "Kevin's Limiter" literally has no parameters or meters whatsoever. "Good Math" is summarized as maybe it'll sound better maybe it'll sound worse, who knows?
Anyone ever try any of these?
|
|