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Post by gravesnumber9 on May 8, 2024 11:44:26 GMT -6
I'm asking because I'm sort of leaning both ways and therefore not really maximizing either approach. In my case I do most of my tracking in my rehearsal studio and most of my mixing in my home studio. I do some overdubs in the home studio as well but things like drums, guitars, piano, etc are done in the larger room.
The problem is I have a few pieces in the rehearsal studio that I feel like I would use at the mix stage if I could. But I have them in the rehearsal studio under the theory of get the best imprint on the sound before digital conversion.
A good example would be my Distressor. It feels a bit silly to have a $1000+ piece of hardware that is getting used only on the way in when I could have it in my mixing rack where it would get used much more often. But on the other hand, I'm using the Distressor to create saturation and deliberate distortion so it feels like a "pre-conversion" tool.
If you could only do one or the other because of physical limitations like this, would you stack your best hardware on the tracking side or the mixing side?
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Post by jeremygillespie on May 8, 2024 11:50:25 GMT -6
If it was me, I’d have all that hardware in a rack on wheels that fit in my vehicle, and on the back make db25 patch points so you can roll it into the tracking space or the mixing space, plug in a db25 cable and GO!
If that’s not an option, I’d use it for tracking.
BUT, I’m fairly certain I saw that Eric Valentine is doing just the opposite. Clean tracking, mess with it afterwards. I mean, he’s got a slightly better track record than I do for hit records so maybe he has a point hahahahah
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Post by gravesnumber9 on May 8, 2024 11:58:32 GMT -6
If it was me, I’d have all that hardware in a rack on wheels that fit in my vehicle, and on the back make db25 patch points so you can roll it into the tracking space or the mixing space, plug in a db25 cable and GO! If that’s not an option, I’d use it for tracking. BUT, I’m fairly certain I saw that Eric Valentine is doing just the opposite. Clean tracking, mess with it afterwards. I mean, he’s got a slightly better track record than I do for hit records so maybe he has a point hahahahah The rack thing isn't an option because I'm doing too much recording and mixing. Just of my own stuff I'm recording probably 4 - 8 hours of material per week in addition to about the same amount of other people's stuff on average. And then it all has to be mixed. But yeah, you're hitting on my conundrum! I feel like if I'm gonna record clean I should just go all the way with it and bring all the good gear back home. But if I'm gonna get it at the source, I've got things like RND 535's and AS Opto's sitting in my mix rack that would get used on every single tracking session if they were in the studio. |
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Post by svart on May 8, 2024 12:06:49 GMT -6
Tracking by far. HW does still have one big lead on SW plugins and that's being more forgiving on the audio. I think the plugins are usually too aggressive, at least more so than the hardware they emulate.
But I think it's all relative. I'm not going to compress drums on the way in, but I'll smash them later.
I'll dig into vocals by 10dB+ on the way in and bass might get even more than that and I may or may not do more than that with plugs later.
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Post by gwlee7 on May 8, 2024 12:08:49 GMT -6
If you went "clean" what would you be tracking with? Your MOTU stuff?
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Post by seawell on May 8, 2024 12:09:12 GMT -6
I finally ponied up for a Flock Audio Patch for this reason. I was mostly using my gear during mixing but now it's really easy to switch it up between tracking and mixing. Not cheap but it has been totally worth it so far. If I had to only choose one or the other, I'd use hardware during mixing. It's real easy to paint yourself into a corner getting too much of a good thing tracking through hardware so once you make that mistake once or twice, it's easy to go too conservative to where you're not getting much mojo in the way you're using it.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on May 8, 2024 12:29:33 GMT -6
If you went "clean" what would you be tracking with? Your MOTU stuff? Well it would only be semi-clean because I'd be going through an A&H GS3000 into MOTU 24ai. Plus I'd still leave a the UA 4-710 there and a quartet of Trident S20 pres. But yes... in the end converted through MOTU. |
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Post by drumsound on May 8, 2024 12:30:47 GMT -6
In a two location situation like yours, I'd probably keep most of the things at the tracking space, but have a hardware mix bus chain at home. I track a lot of things with compression and some EQ. I like getting sounds that are both working in a faders up recall, but also can be worked with tonally later.
I really like mixing ITB, and just having a simple HW recall of just 2 pieces (a comp and EQ). So, even though I have outboard, most of it doesn't get used in mixdown.
I'm trying to get some new snakes, that might allow for more of my outboard effects to be utilized, but that's slightly a shits and giggles thing...
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Post by gravesnumber9 on May 8, 2024 12:31:47 GMT -6
Tracking by far. HW does still have one big lead on SW plugins and that's being more forgiving on the audio. I think the plugins are usually too aggressive, at least more so than the hardware they emulate. But I think it's all relative. I'm not going to compress drums on the way in, but I'll smash them later. I'll dig into vocals by 10dB+ on the way in and bass might get even more than that and I may or may not do more than that with plugs later. You know what? This is kind of pushing more towards "emphasis on the mix" in my case. Because most of my final vocals are done in mix room. It's also where I do reamping for bass. So kind of funny that you mention those two things. That's definitely an argument for keeping the "A" gear in the mix room. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on May 8, 2024 12:38:31 GMT -6
In a two location situation like yours, I'd probably keep most of the things at the tracking space, but have a hardware mix bus chain at home. I track a lot of things with compression and some EQ. I like getting sounds that are both working in a faders up recall, but also can be worked with tonally later. I really like mixing ITB, and just having a simple HW recall of just 2 pieces (a comp and EQ). So, even though I have outboard, most of it doesn't get used in mixdown. I'm trying to get some new snakes, that might allow for more of my outboard effects to be utilized, but that's slightly a shits and giggles thing... And this is how this started in my head... same thing. I'm using a lot of my hardware less and less in the mix. I still use my 2-bus chain on everything, but a lot of the color comps and things aren't getting used as much as they once did. |
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Post by eyebytwomuchgeer on May 8, 2024 12:52:09 GMT -6
This is my exact situation. I have most of my HW in the tracking studio. If I could only have one option, all of the HW would be at the tracking room. I just recently started a small mixing station in my house (away from the tracking studio)
I have a very small lunchbox at home with, mainly, dirt boxes and diy stuff. At my home mixing station, I have 2 VP28, a Bereich03 Density, 2 AML 1084s and then a pair of Radial Re-amp boxes.
I do a lot of rough mixing in the tracking space, then I listen as I’m driving home. I try to make small changes with the distortion boxes at home (as compression and EQ I can emulate with plug-ins to a decent extent). I seem to favor the VP28 and Density for distortion though. So they are at home, with everything but the density backed up in the tracking space.
I use the 1084s for distortion and HW eq moves as well.
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Post by gwlee7 on May 8, 2024 12:53:28 GMT -6
If you went "clean" what would you be tracking with? Your MOTU stuff? Well it would only be semi-clean because I'd be going through an A&H GS3000 into MOTU 24ai. Plus I'd still leave a the UA 4-710 there and a quartet of Trident S20 pres. But yes... in the end converted through MOTU. I think you would be well served to make yourself to do it that way. It would force you to really hone in on mic choices and placements because you will obviously want "board tape" rough mixes that sound good. Plus then all your toys are in the mix room to really put the finish on everything. I have heard enough of your work to know that you can get great live sounds. EDITED TO ADD: Having now read your response to drumsound, maybe track it like you want to sound from the start. If that is what you have been doing, then you are doing it right. I really like what I have been hearing from your band. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on May 8, 2024 12:58:11 GMT -6
Well it would only be semi-clean because I'd be going through an A&H GS3000 into MOTU 24ai. Plus I'd still leave a the UA 4-710 there and a quartet of Trident S20 pres. But yes... in the end converted through MOTU. I think you would be well served to make yourself to do it that way. It would force you to really hone in on mic choices and placements because you will obviously want "board tape" rough mixes that sound good. Plus then all your toys are in the mix room to really put the finish on everything. I have heard enough of your work to know that you can get great live sounds. EDITED TO ADD: Having now read your response to drumsound , maybe track it like you want to sound from the start. If that is what you have been doing, then you are doing it right. I really like what I have been hearing from your band. Thanks! Maybe I just need to bring the Distressor home. I find it "Distressing" every time I walk into that room and see it not getting enough use. Or maybe I should just sell it. |
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Post by niklas1073 on May 8, 2024 13:18:31 GMT -6
All hw on tracking. Im going that way despite i could have hw in mixing i choose not to.
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Post by nobtwiddler on May 9, 2024 8:24:00 GMT -6
I think in this particular situation, I would use all the hardware during tracking.
The logic being if I could achieve the sonics I want during tracking, then mixing could be as easy as throwing up the faders (so to speak) back at home.
It also has the added luxury of being totally re-callable, mixing in the box.
I have done many sessions where I captured all the sounds I wanted during tracking, and afterwards did a "ruff" mix, that was accepted as a final!
Simply because the sounds we originally recorded were perfect.
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Post by thirdeye on May 9, 2024 8:45:52 GMT -6
I am tracking with less compression these days, so I would leave the compressors in the mix room. As long as there's good preamps to track with, I would be set. EQ's though I would put in a rack to take to both the tracking room and mixing room. The BLA PBR8 with the built in patchbay is great!
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nas
Full Member
Posts: 42 
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Post by nas on May 9, 2024 10:37:59 GMT -6
I think some very gentle compression or some peak limiting on the way is a good idea to keep things fairly smooth and even. It will make life a little easier when mixing. That being said, these days we're all in 24 or 32 bit so this gives you a lot of dynamic range and tracking at lower levels on the way in without any compression or limiting is just fine... in fact I've been doing that for the mast majority of tracking sessions with no problems at all and saving most of the processing with hardware and software for mixing. Either is fine so go with what makes you feel more conformable and helps capture an inspired performance.
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Post by mcirish on May 9, 2024 10:45:54 GMT -6
Hardware for tracking. I rarely use any hardware anymore for mixing. Too many recalls. I do like having some really nice compressors on the way in though.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on May 9, 2024 11:07:52 GMT -6
I am tracking with less compression these days, so I would leave the compressors in the mix room. As long as there's good preamps to track with, I would be set. EQ's though I would put in a rack to take to both the tracking room and mixing room. The BLA PBR8 with the built in patchbay is great! No matter where I land I'll have EQ available at tracking through my console and enough "hero" preamps to have some mix and match options. It's really a matter of compressors. Do I want my Distressors, LA2A clones, SB4000, RND535 etc etc for tracking or mixing. |
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Post by EmRR on May 9, 2024 13:03:34 GMT -6
Hardware for tracking. I rarely use any hardware anymore for mixing. Too many recalls. I do like having some really nice compressors on the way in though. this ^ I'll only add that there are definitely vintage compressors that are too finicky to really trust during tracking, especially on a multi-song session. Then I'll probably print them back later. |
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Post by thirdeye on May 9, 2024 14:07:47 GMT -6
I am tracking with less compression these days, so I would leave the compressors in the mix room. As long as there's good preamps to track with, I would be set. EQ's though I would put in a rack to take to both the tracking room and mixing room. The BLA PBR8 with the built in patchbay is great! No matter where I land I'll have EQ available at tracking through my console and enough "hero" preamps to have some mix and match options. It's really a matter of compressors. Do I want my Distressors, LA2A clones, SB4000, RND535 etc etc for tracking or mixing. I am doing things differently than I have in the past, and for me, I would want all that outboard in my mixing room if I only had one choice. I'll get a good amount of color or clarity during tracking through different mic/preamp/EQ combos. I'm definitely not afraid to push a preamp either if it sounds good. But that is usually enough for me these days. I track with HDX and Lynx, and in Pro Tools on each channel I'll use a AAX DSP channel strip of choice and tweak as needed. On bass and vocals, I'll usually add AAX DSP Arouser or another compressor to taste if needed. I've been happy with the results. With vocals especially, I've been happier lately tracking with no compression (I know, it's freaking crazy-I would not have said that even a few years ago). |
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Post by Johnkenn on May 9, 2024 14:18:39 GMT -6
Just fundamentally, I think having HW during tracking is the more important thing...at least to me. I'd rather have a a quality file for me to screw up over a shitty file that I can't fix.
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Post by ragan on May 9, 2024 14:20:36 GMT -6
I finally went back to tracking my vocals through hardware and it is so much more enjoyable, from the perspective of me as the singer and the perspective of me as the guy mixing/producing it.
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Post by thehightenor on May 9, 2024 14:43:21 GMT -6
My mantra has always been ….
“Get the magic sauce at the source”
Track with hardware, bake in the tone and then you’ll get way more action out of your plug-ins.
Plug-ins are great for manipulation and control but their weak point is generating analog vibe (no surprise there)
So bake it in at the source.
Plus, compressors and preamps sound better pre A/D they never sound quite as good to my ears in post.
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Post by Dan on May 9, 2024 20:34:38 GMT -6
I dunno man. Depends what you have. If you have some tube pre or something, hell yeah shove it on guitar or vocals or bass or something if you’re allowed to adjust the tone and the musician digs it. If not, I don’t care to mess with anything in front of them. Record it clean. Mess with it later to be usable. Use your cool stuff later that changes the sound to make it not suck or make it audible.
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