|
|
Post by hadaja on Jun 21, 2024 19:41:07 GMT -6
+/-12db could mean up to 24db out.
But hey We know what a 44 should really sound like so not a big deal for me.
I was surprised how strong the magnets were in the warm mic. Obviously stronger then the RCA but possibly even stronger then the AEA.
So not so sure the R44ce and the WA44 are exactly the same.
They were both the same in sound signature.
Noticeable difference in 44bx due to modern construction methods.
I did like the less low end in the WA-44 over the 44bx. YOu wouldnt use that klow end anyone on most sources.
The 2.5 micron ribbon on the wa44 still did a very good job of catching the transient detail.
Cant remember which paper I read about 1.8 micron versus 2.5 microns and the long versus short motor assembly of each can have a big effect on the transients. By just reducing to a smaller ribbon thickness doesn't necessarily equate to a better sound.
Many factors at play here.
But I did like WA44. Does it replace a 44bx - NO.
Does it replace a R44ce - YES in my book.
But my genre of reading will vary different to your genre of books.
Over and out !
|
|
|
|
Post by frans on Jun 22, 2024 3:44:30 GMT -6
+/- 12db - a bit funny. Why would you want to present something like that, why not go for "from-to +/- 2dB" so we roughly can see where it's at?
The other thing - i checked out all the "lifter/whatever/inline barrel/whatnot" gadgets and the only one that IMHO did the job was the one from Royer. And i got a couple of good preamps with high gain to compare. Because i got preamps roughly sorted into three camps: high gain, mid gain, low gain... and use them accordingly for whatever signal comes in so i do not have to pad down preamps when the signal is too hot (makes for a different input Z). For the cases where the dozend of high gain preamps are busy and i need another track inbetween with a low output Grampian ribbon or so and i'm not in the mood to unplug any cables, i got for the Royer thingy.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Jun 22, 2024 9:47:21 GMT -6
+/- 12db - a bit funny. Why would you want to present something like that, why not go for "from-to +/- 2dB" so we roughly can see where it's at? The other thing - i checked out all the "lifter/whatever/inline barrel/whatnot" gadgets and the only one that IMHO did the job was the one from Royer. And i got a couple of good preamps with high gain to compare. Because i got preamps roughly sorted into three camps: high gain, mid gain, low gain... and use them accordingly for whatever signal comes in so i do not have to pad down preamps when the signal is too hot (makes for a different input Z). For the cases where the dozend of high gain preamps are busy and i need another track inbetween with a low output Grampian ribbon or so and i'm not in the mood to unplug any cables, i got for the Royer thingy. That would make sense... Who in the room can hear above 16K? Please raise your hands. |
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Jun 22, 2024 11:46:52 GMT -6
Can I turn my hearing aids up first?
Chris
|
|
|
|
Post by frans on Jun 23, 2024 5:14:28 GMT -6
Can I turn my hearing aids up first? Chris WHAT....? |
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on Aug 21, 2024 13:21:28 GMT -6
I just had an RCA and Warm side by side. With this pair if there's gain difference, it's very slight. This RCA is darker on top, which gives it that mid-centric focus we like in many Neumann. The Warm is more open up top, which de-emphasizes the nice mid push of the RCA. I didn't hear anything with any low bass to comment on that. Proximity effect felt the same. Same kinda vibe overall. My audition was through a late 40's Gates SA series preamp (think Coil CA-70), then same again through an RCA BA-33B (mid- 60's discrete transistor). No noted changes from the preamp swap.
|
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on Aug 21, 2024 21:08:14 GMT -6
Tracked a bunch of percussion with it today….sounded like a ribbon….
Used a Yeti mug as a cowbell. Boost 400 +20, HPF 100ish, and LPF the top 12/oct around 4k gets you there in a pinch…..
|
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on Aug 21, 2024 21:22:15 GMT -6
Tracked a bunch of percussion with it today….sounded like a ribbon…. Used a Yeti mug as a cowbell. Boost 400 +20, HPF 100ish, and LPF the top 12/oct around 4k gets you there in a pinch….. so Doug, is it worth the $ in your opinion? |
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on Aug 21, 2024 21:26:47 GMT -6
Of course, if you want a 44. I’d be surprised if the AEA sounds any different on average. Plenty of other (lighter/smaller) choices if 44 means nothing to you. It won’t make me sell my RCA. AEA prob wouldn’t either. The only things that look any different are the knurls of the thumbscrews, the phillips head versus flathead screws, and the damn thing looks too new so you’ll need to buy a few packs of cigarettes and wipe a booger or 2 into the raised chrome striping. The metalwork is more chrome/shiny looking versus the more matte finish of the RCA. I doubt the RCA ever looked as shiny. The cable on the Warm needs to have slack added between the mic and the clamp, it won't rotate 90 degrees in the yoke as-is. Easy enough to do. ——
Oh, you probably meant the Yeti cowbell…cowbell prob cheaper than Yeti? : ) |
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Aug 21, 2024 22:16:53 GMT -6
For not THAT much more... Am dreaming of an (Active) Cloud 44. With the 2 Voicings. Someday. Maybe. Flat was better on my Tenor-ish top. Bright better on deeper Bari Keys.  Chrus |
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on Aug 21, 2024 22:23:41 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by hadaja on Aug 22, 2024 14:18:28 GMT -6
For not THAT much more... Am dreaming of an (Active) Cloud 44. With the 2 Voicings. Someday. Maybe. Flat was better on my Tenor-ish top. Bright better on deeper Bari Keys. Chrus I have the CLoud 44a for a few years now. Nice enough mic, but with the Warm 44 now out just save time and money and get the WA44. The Cloud 44 doesnt sound like a 44bx. IT just shares simialr design but doesnt really sound like an original at all. the 2 x toggle switch is not that magic . It really is a no brainer, because the WA44 is a little cleaner sounding then the RCA 44bx you most liekly will get enough gain out your standard preamp to make it work quite well without using a booster. |
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Aug 22, 2024 17:50:15 GMT -6
Hmm... Gotta try next NAMM.
Thanks!
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,083 
|
Post by ericn on Aug 22, 2024 21:18:58 GMT -6
Warm's mics have been a mixed bag. I thought the 47 was really good. The 67 was a mud pit. Looking forward to hearing it next to originals and possibly the AEA recreations though. The price is certainly right on it. Thought the 47 was good and the 67 sounds good on first blush, but it completely falls apart when you start EQing it. Yeah but 2024 JK isn’t the market, 15-20 years ago you just might have fallen hard! |
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,083
|
Post by ericn on Aug 22, 2024 21:23:07 GMT -6
I would be careful comparing this with their other mics, those circuits on the condensers and tube mic are a lot more complicated with more variables. A lot less things to consider with the 44 design specifically, I don't want to turn this into comparisons with all the other warm gear threads. I'm struggling to find anything (aside from the ribbon thickness) they really skimped or cut corners on with this one. They could have easily tried to hit the $500-$600 price point and done this cheaper, it doesn't look like Warm did that. Here's what I wrote on the purple site: I've got a couple of thoughts after reading through here. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't AEA use neodymium magnets as well in their 44 series (might use them in all their mics)? I was pretty sure they did, but looking at their website and the manuals for the 44 series, I don't see anything confirming that. I think I'm right, so the Warm is using a similar magnet to the top clone of this design.
As far as price, I'm seeing a lot of comparisons to the AEA R84 and the Coles. The R84 is like $1200 new and the Coles 4038 are getting close to $1500 at this point. I think the Coles is priced too far out of the range to be a fair comparison, the R84 is definitely a contender (and I see they've lowered the price to almost $1000 today on the R84 . Smart move). There's definitely a lot of similarities between the 44 series and the R84, so sonically I think that's fair game for some comparisons. The Coles sounds nothing like a 44 type mic though, so I really don't see any point comparing them. Different enough to warrant having both and just liking one more than the other.
The Cloud 44 is another good consideration, but I don't think they make the passive one anymore, so you're stuck with the Active version that's $1500 now (which is the one you want anyway, it's great). I got to work with a pair of the Cloud 44's for years and although I like them a lot for certain things (best drum room mic I've found), I didn't like them as much on acoustic instruments and preferred the AEA's. That's definitely my opinion, but objectively I'll just say that it doesn't sound like the AEA R44 or any of the vintage 44's I've used. I would classify it as it's own sound. Not a bad thing by any means, but it's definitely not a 44 clone in my experience.
I don't have as much experience with the Stagers, they've all knocked my socks off in my limited uses. Again though, I havn't heard anything from them that made me think they can do the 44 thing. All original designs doing their own thing, and their larger ribbon models are $1500 and up (which takes them out of the "fair comparison" category in my opinion).
There really isn't any magical, unobtanium thing as far as doing a 44 clone. I think all the other mics that Warm clones are a much more complicated can of worms, but in this specific instance and design, I think there's potential to pull this off well. You need big honking magnets, a large ribbon and a good transformer. The body of the mic is icing on the cake, as the acoustics of the housing and cage definitely come into play. The one thing I'm seeing is the thicker ribbon material they're using, and I would bet that was an intentional decision. Less likely to get damaged in shipping, less likely to get damaged by the people buying it and less returns. This is probably going to be a lot of people's first ribbon purchase, you don't have to baby these things but you do have to be careful. I baby my gear and I've had to re-ribbon my AEA R88 twice in the last 10 years. The first time, I'm really not sure what happened. One side was just responding differently, the ribbon came loose a bit somehow. The second time, my dog saw a squirrel outside, freaked out and managed to knock it over on the Latch Lake stand. Leave it to that fur ball to have enough stupid to pull that off .
As I already said, it's easy enough to send one of these in to be re-ribboned. Pitman Microphones (formerly ENAK) charges $185 to do a re-ribbon, so if you're concerned about the thicker ribbon stock from Warm, that's an easy solution. I would be curious to see what Warm is tensioning these at from the factory, I know AEA does theirs pretty low. At some point, it would be great to have a pair of the WA-44's and send one off to be re-ribboned and hear the difference.
They got the ribbon size right at least, magnets look like they're right, the transformer is right, they can do it at $1k because they're making a lot at once and they're not hand made like the AEA's, it make sense. In this specific instance, I really doubt they've cut any corners. There just isn't much to these old RCA ribbon mics, it looks like Warm understood the assignment, did their homework and have probably made a really good mic. I'm looking forward to trying them at some point.Very different but the attention to detail is still what it’s all about, in a condenser you have to get the circuit & the capsule right, consider in a classic condenser the original tolerances were pretty easy to meet. In a ribbon it’s all about the simple motor and diaphragm, even with modern CNC it’s a bitch. |
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on Aug 23, 2024 10:59:03 GMT -6
Had it 18ish inches over a fiddle during a live recording with vocal, acoustic guitar, and fiddle. Sounded like a 44, with the extra size from the proximity effect.
|
|
