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Post by gwlee7 on Apr 24, 2024 19:11:49 GMT -6
God bless vanity projects. I’d much rather work for grateful and excited people as opposed to som smart ass cynical young dude that thinks he knows everything. I help you take your wife to eat from time to time.  |
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 24, 2024 20:35:09 GMT -6
God bless vanity projects. I’d much rather work for grateful and excited people as opposed to som smart ass cynical young dude that thinks he knows everything. I help you take your wife to eat from time to time.  |
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Post by drbill on Apr 24, 2024 20:50:14 GMT -6
Real estate has always been the best way to make money in the studio business. It's why virtually none of the iconic studios exist anymore. They have a go at it, and then sell the property.
As for AI, it will displace ALL of us in one way or another. It will not be a positive influence on the business overall even if one figures out a way to survive. The best days are behind us....
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Post by yotonic on Apr 24, 2024 20:54:48 GMT -6
The music business as I know it has been dying a slow death for a long time now. Well-known artists can’t make a living recording or touring. And as fewer people pay for music, business entities are scrubbing and sucking up any leftover pennies they can find. Kids don’t pay for music and they don’t go to see live music on a regular basis instead they spend their money on a big festival or a top 20 artist in the summer sheds. It’s become like a carnival business with the big ticket companies promoting anything that will get folks attention. Very few people want to hear new music until it is fed to them through the narrowing funnel. And even fewer want to go out and support live music on any sort of regular basis.
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Post by robo on Apr 25, 2024 8:52:39 GMT -6
So this thread is NOT about the new Real Estate album (meh), but about our impending doom. OK!
This thing seems like a cool way to stack harmonies sung by the same person, etc. Could be a good way to demo ideas (the trumpet example) when you’re out walking the dog or whatever.
The cost is the main problem…but there will be cheaper/better versions a year from now, so whatever.
Commercial studios have always existed in a competitive space, and it’s been shrinking since the 90’s. There will always be a niche market, however, and us freelancers/home studio folks will always have people looking for help.
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Post by smashlord on Apr 25, 2024 11:07:29 GMT -6
Real estate has always been the best way to make money in the studio business. It's why virtually none of the iconic studios exist anymore. They have a go at it, and then sell the property. As for AI, it will displace ALL of us in one way or another. It will not be a positive influence on the business overall even if one figures out a way to survive. The best days are behind us.... I think embracing technology, especially if it can make our work more efficient even at the cost of it not being as fun, is key to survival. I'm here looking at guitar amps and mics trying to figure out something to get to up my game and just yesterday I had a client prefer a Neural DSP amp sim over a '69 Marshall, through a variety of speakers, mics, Chandler pres and API EQs. I personally thought there was no comparison, but that is irrelevant. The take away is that a $99 piece of gear, that I dialed in a few minutes beat out a $10K+ recording chain in the client's eyes. Ultimately we all get into this to do something we enjoy, not just make money, but for those us that do do it as our main gig, at the end of the day, it's still a business and running a business requires making pragmatic choices as lame as that can be sometimes. $9900 in lower costs to do the same job for the client conceivably means the possibility of offering more competitive rates and capturing more clients. Is that what I would like to do? Hell no... amps, mics, etc... are more fun, but at the end of the day, if it comes down to it, working with amps sims is still better than a desk job (even though it arguably is a desk job!). |
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Post by Vincent R. on Apr 27, 2024 6:07:34 GMT -6
I received a demo from a good friend of mine using this. I thought it was an overly autotuned track, but had no idea it was an AI voice. Given how autotuned to hell most pop music is, this is going to make it rough for session pop singers. Luckily, my friend has hired me to re-record the track he sent me. Still, this could be a really cool tool, but also something that is going to make a bunch of session singers not needed.
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Post by veggieryan on Apr 27, 2024 10:35:04 GMT -6
For the record, I thought this was a bad idea the first time I saw it:  |
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Post by thehightenor on Apr 27, 2024 12:04:28 GMT -6
Real estate has always been the best way to make money in the studio business. It's why virtually none of the iconic studios exist anymore. They have a go at it, and then sell the property. As for AI, it will displace ALL of us in one way or another. It will not be a positive influence on the business overall even if one figures out a way to survive. The best days are behind us.... Bill stop it! You're all doom and gloom  My take is way different and very optimistic compared to yours - by the time all the kids have developed zero skills because they've turned to a "robotic monkey at a typewriter" for their creative input, composing, lyrics, singing, arranging, beat making, playing, mixing, mastering it's a long list. Well, my unique and to date in demand skills as a professional musician of 42 years will be in far greater demand. I've made a living at being able to take my and other peoples music and giving it a unique twist and styling and making the unlikely outside-the-box ideas seem organic and natural. Once the lake is full of nothing but mediocre cookie cutter everything - I'll be left smiling and in even more demand. My wife just recently said to me - Mr Tenor you will have to delay your retirement - you're going to be needed and busier than ever! My wife is NEVER wrong |
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Post by chessparov on Apr 27, 2024 12:52:07 GMT -6
The Customer-ahem-Wife is always right! Excellent thought provoking posts all around. Will "Ketchup" soon. Thanks Guys, Chris |
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Post by chessparov on Apr 27, 2024 12:56:58 GMT -6
Where's the Tom Waits preset? Tom Waits for no Man. |
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Post by drbill on Apr 27, 2024 15:25:32 GMT -6
Real estate has always been the best way to make money in the studio business. It's why virtually none of the iconic studios exist anymore. They have a go at it, and then sell the property. As for AI, it will displace ALL of us in one way or another. It will not be a positive influence on the business overall even if one figures out a way to survive. The best days are behind us.... Bill stop it! You're all doom and gloom My take is way different and very optimistic compared to yours - by the time all the kids have developed zero skills because they've turned to a "robotic monkey at a typewriter" for their creative input, composing, lyrics, singing, arranging, beat making, playing, mixing, mastering it's a long list. Well, my unique and to date in demand skills as a professional musician of 42 years will be in far greater demand. I've made a living at being able to take my and other peoples music and giving it a unique twist and styling and making the unlikely outside-the-box ideas seem organic and natural. Once the lake is full of nothing but mediocre cookie cutter everything - I'll be left smiling and in even more demand. My wife just recently said to me - Mr Tenor you will have to delay your retirement - you're going to be needed and busier than ever! My wife is NEVER wrong How many associates do you have who are deep into AI as a professional - living through it's development for the last decade? Obviously (no disrespect intended) not your wife. I have brilliant tech friends who are terrified, and scrambling at warp speed to try to get out ahead of the onslaught. The very term "exponential" is going to get completely re-defined by the explosive "progress" that is being made. Almost weekly. Two years ago, I had the exact same opinion as yours. You're in the UK right? That might be part of the disconnect. It's impossible to really drill down and discuss this in the US without politics playing an intimate part of the discussion - and (IMO) faith based spirituality too. What does "trans-humanism" mean to you?? I'll just drop it at that and...out of respect to John, I won't go there. Suffice it to say, as concerned as I am about the music side of things, that is a tiny sliver of the perspective that is shifting radically due to AI. This whole discussion is growing and changing at an exponential pace that will leave us looking back at 2024 as the "quaint, good ol days". Look back at tech over the last 25 years. Incredible progress has been made - we send files, and videos instantly to the other side of the world. By 2030 the western world will be looking much much different as the exponential progress of machine learning will make 2000-2024 look like a few minutes in time by comparison. And, IMO, this "progress" will be decidedly not be an improvement for humanity - much less music. So, you may call yourself optimistic. I'll call you (again, no disrespect) a "head in the sand" kinda guy - not realizing what is actually on the horizon. I do appreciate your good naturedness though. Do you think that if AI can create a convincing Paul McCartney or Depeche Mode or JS Bach on steroids after a few short months of exponential machine learning that they cannot recreate "outside-the-box ideas that seem organic and natural" in a few years? If RGO is still around, feel free to bump this thread in 5+ years and we can re-assess. No doubt both of us will have a radically different perspective on the matter. Until then, I will have a sobering perspective with my eyes wide open, as I am responsible for a family and have viable concerns for my country and humanity overall. |
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Post by thehightenor on Apr 27, 2024 15:39:43 GMT -6
Bill stop it! You're all doom and gloom [img alt=" " src="//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/embarrassed.png" class="smile" style="max-width:100%;"] My take is way different and very optimistic compared to yours - by the time all the kids have developed zero skills because they've turned to a "robotic monkey at a typewriter" for their creative input, composing, lyrics, singing, arranging, beat making, playing, mixing, mastering it's a long list. Well, my unique and to date in demand skills as a professional musician of 42 years will be in far greater demand. I've made a living at being able to take my and other peoples music and giving it a unique twist and styling and making the unlikely outside-the-box ideas seem organic and natural. Once the lake is full of nothing but mediocre cookie cutter everything - I'll be left smiling and in even more demand. My wife just recently said to me - Mr Tenor you will have to delay your retirement - you're going to be needed and busier than ever! My wife is NEVER wrong How many associates do you have who are deep into AI as a professional - living through it's development for the last decade? Obviously (no disrespect intended) not your wife. I have brilliant tech friends who are terrified, and scrambling at warp speed to try to get out ahead of the onslaught. The very term "exponential" is going to get completely re-defined by the explosive "progress" that is being made. Almost weekly. Two years ago, I had the exact same opinion as yours. You're in the UK right? That might be part of the disconnect. It's impossible to really drill down and discuss this in the US without politics playing an intimate part of the discussion - and (IMO) faith based spirituality too. What does "trans-humanism" mean to you?? I'll just drop it at that and...out of respect to John, I won't go there. Suffice it to say, as concerned as I am about the music side of things, that is a tiny sliver of the perspective that is shifting radically due to AI. This whole discussion is growing and changing at an exponential pace that will leave us looking back at 2024 as the "quaint, good ol days". Look back at tech over the last 25 years. Incredible progress has been made - we send files, and videos instantly to the other side of the world. By 2030 the western world will be looking much much different as the exponential progress of machine learning will make 2000-2024 look like a few minutes in time by comparison. And, IMO, this "progress" will be decidedly not be an improvement for humanity - much less music. So, you may call yourself optimistic. I'll call you (again, no disrespect) a "head in the sand" kinda guy - not realizing what is actually on the horizon. I do appreciate your good naturedness though. Do you think that if AI can create a convincing Paul McCartney or Depeche Mode or JS Bach on steroids after a few short months of exponential machine learning that they cannot recreate "outside-the-box ideas that seem organic and natural" in a few years? If RGO is still around, feel free to bump this thread in 5+ years and we can re-assess. No doubt both of us will have a radically different perspective on the matter. Until then, I will have a sobering perspective with my eyes wide open, as I am responsible for a family and have viable concerns for my country and humanity overall. My eldest son in doing a Masters degree in AI deep learning and neural networks I’m fairly up on it - he’s top of his entire year. He’s told me all the reasons it’s going to be great for me as a human creative and musician, I’ve adapted over the last 42 years to all the things they said would put me out of work …. never happened. As I said, I’m an optimist and I don’t scare easily. I’m not going to panic about something I do understand. As for it thinking out side the box like a human. I’m tempted to ask my son to log in and explain why it’s never going to happen, he actually understands this stuff from the ground up (he takes after his grandfather who was a maths genius) I’m got my mums music genes So Bill, no I don’t think what I do will ever be replicated because what I do isn’t a function of “intelligence” per se or the processing of a data set. I think there’s going to be a time where people are going to be impressed with AI as a veneer of creativity and grow bored with it much quicker than you are currently worried about. If someone produces generic musical drivel then yep ok an AI will do that quicker but if you think it’s going to replace actual human art - in my opinion no it’s not going to happen. It’s not human. And hey, I turned 60 last year, I’ve made my pot - I can retire from it all if I want. But I’m sticking around, I smell opportunity. If music creation is about to become “plug-ins” - I’m going be the “vintage hardware” people pay through the nose for |
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Post by plinker on Apr 27, 2024 15:40:31 GMT -6
 GAME OVER, MAN!!! |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Apr 27, 2024 16:43:52 GMT -6
Bill stop it! You're all doom and gloom My take is way different and very optimistic compared to yours - by the time all the kids have developed zero skills because they've turned to a "robotic monkey at a typewriter" for their creative input, composing, lyrics, singing, arranging, beat making, playing, mixing, mastering it's a long list. Well, my unique and to date in demand skills as a professional musician of 42 years will be in far greater demand. I've made a living at being able to take my and other peoples music and giving it a unique twist and styling and making the unlikely outside-the-box ideas seem organic and natural. Once the lake is full of nothing but mediocre cookie cutter everything - I'll be left smiling and in even more demand. My wife just recently said to me - Mr Tenor you will have to delay your retirement - you're going to be needed and busier than ever! My wife is NEVER wrong How many associates do you have who are deep into AI as a professional - living through it's development for the last decade? Obviously (no disrespect intended) not your wife. I have brilliant tech friends who are terrified, and scrambling at warp speed to try to get out ahead of the onslaught. The very term "exponential" is going to get completely re-defined by the explosive "progress" that is being made. Almost weekly. Two years ago, I had the exact same opinion as yours. You're in the UK right? That might be part of the disconnect. It's impossible to really drill down and discuss this in the US without politics playing an intimate part of the discussion - and (IMO) faith based spirituality too. What does "trans-humanism" mean to you?? I'll just drop it at that and...out of respect to John, I won't go there. Suffice it to say, as concerned as I am about the music side of things, that is a tiny sliver of the perspective that is shifting radically due to AI. This whole discussion is growing and changing at an exponential pace that will leave us looking back at 2024 as the "quaint, good ol days". Look back at tech over the last 25 years. Incredible progress has been made - we send files, and videos instantly to the other side of the world. By 2030 the western world will be looking much much different as the exponential progress of machine learning will make 2000-2024 look like a few minutes in time by comparison. And, IMO, this "progress" will be decidedly not be an improvement for humanity - much less music. So, you may call yourself optimistic. I'll call you (again, no disrespect) a "head in the sand" kinda guy - not realizing what is actually on the horizon. I do appreciate your good naturedness though. Do you think that if AI can create a convincing Paul McCartney or Depeche Mode or JS Bach on steroids after a few short months of exponential machine learning that they cannot recreate "outside-the-box ideas that seem organic and natural" in a few years? If RGO is still around, feel free to bump this thread in 5+ years and we can re-assess. No doubt both of us will have a radically different perspective on the matter. Until then, I will have a sobering perspective with my eyes wide open, as I am responsible for a family and have viable concerns for my country and humanity overall. The trans-humanist thing is very concerning. And it's not surprising that a lot of the biggest AI pushers are very much excited by the idea of trans-humanism despite the fact that it is self-evidently a terrifying prospect to anyone not deluded by the spirit of the age. I work closely with a lot of these folks in my day job (they are leading the charge on a certain type of AI use case) and they are generally very intelligent and friendly but they also genuinely believe they are saving humanity by "pushing evolution forward". Yikes. Scary. Nonetheless, as I've gotten more and more familiar with how this stuff works I've become more and more convinced that this new Tower Of Babel is going to fall short just as we have fallen short in all the other ways that we have tried to turn ourselves in to gods. And, as I've said, I think the ironic outcome of all of this is that the value of God created humanity will only increase and the untouchable nature of what makes humans what we are... the "created in God's image" part... will prove to be a whole lot harder to replicate than the trans-humanist crowd thinks. That's the heavy spiritual side. On the practical side. Yes, everything is going to change. We're talking change on the level of the introduction of controlled electricity. That's the closest analogy I can find to get people to understand the magnitude of what's coming. Electricity fundamentally changed us as a species in so many ways it's pointless to even count them (start the way we sleep and then keep going...), this will do the same. Finally drbill, I share your complete lack of faith in any of the corporate or government powers to guide us through this change. And that is the real concern. But that can change. I think once the magnitude of what's happening really dawns on people the general population will wake up and recognize that the WWF clown show that has become American governance needs to end and it's time to start bringing in some real leaders to shape our future responsibly. Yes. I'm an optimist. |
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Post by christopher on Apr 27, 2024 17:20:44 GMT -6
The only use for AI I can think of is stuff that no human wants to do. So in that spirit.. Can anyone here write a better ballad about a guy smuggling weapons into jail the hard way? 🤣 Warning: don’t click this link if you don’t want to be disturbed suno.com/song/b33c1e1c-70a3-44fe-aabc-766a8b2f913a |
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Post by ml on Apr 27, 2024 18:12:38 GMT -6
You guys need to cheer up! When I was in music school there was a running joke amongst the music faculty how classical music has been dying for the past 100 years!
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Post by antipodesjosh on Apr 27, 2024 20:34:53 GMT -6
I work in technology with AI, and so far it's been a net improvement to my job. ChatGPT and GitHub Co-pilot are real time-savers.
We build AI-powered products as well, and most of the successful use-cases for it are in automating annoying tasks - parsing large volumes of data and summarising them, or finding structured information inside free-form text.
I can imagine similar quality-of-life improvements making their way into DAWs. "AI bot, time align these drums for me", or "tune this vocal, but not too much", or "tell me what's wrong with the guitars in this mix?".
I'm not yet worried about AI stealing my day job. It just frees me up to do the interesting parts (thinking about the customer problem) and accelerates some of the tedious parts for me (writing the code, writing tests, writing documentation).
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Post by christophert on Apr 27, 2024 20:49:02 GMT -6
IMO if you are a songwriter, and to some degree a producer, then you are in for very tough times - start packing your bags.
There are plenty of people who will still make music - irrespective of AI.
My gut told me a few years ago to only ever write when I get paid for it (film) or for enjoyment, to slow down on production where I need to spend unpaid time on polishing an artists work, and focus nearly totally on recording / mixing / and mastering.
I don't have any fears about AI - I will continue to have plenty of work > musicians will still play live, and will always want to record in nice rooms with great equipment and experienced engineers.
Live music will continue to be around, and people will always want to hear their favorite artists at home on some sort of recorded medium.
AI can't play a local gig.
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Post by viciousbliss on Apr 27, 2024 21:26:35 GMT -6
This is really a lot simpler than we're thinking. It's all about what the consumer market wants. In 1999 we learned that they would gladly prefer 128 mp3s for free. In our modern era we know that people will pay good money to see acts that you couldn't give away after 1991 like New Kids and Vanilla Ice. Music used to serve a lot more purposes than it does today. People stopped forming bands as often as in the past going back two decades. Guys who would've dedicated themselves to a band in 1978 ended up in college or in jail in 2002. Today it seems to just be a background thing for social media and its interactions. Either background music in someone's video or playing in the background at whatever event they're at. Full immersion VR is inevitable too. And great session players will able to be replicated by AI.
Traditional society is already over. How many here have seen the fertility rates? Been dropping like a rock since 2008. There are a lot more options than pure trans-humanism. You could stay as you are and just load up on nanotech in maybe about a decade so you don't age or develop terrible health. More intelligence means less violence and destruction. I'm always surprised when I go on Youtube or political sites and people are worried about being in a Terminator movie. Not remotely possible. In those movies it's like AI has this huge growth, time machines exist, and everything else is locked into whatever year the movie was produced.
With mass automation we'll have to see big changes in society. People worry too much about jobs and money as if job loss it the only thing that will be changing. Even anarchists worry about this. The big corporations are gonna replace us all and we'll still have to pay a premium price for everything. It's more likely the corporations will become obsolete as their products won't be necessary anymore. More technology means we can do more on our own, be more self-sufficient. These corporations are going to lose their power over the populace for the most part. Do what you can now, it's tough to plan for the future. Perhaps it won't require any planning at all on our part. The big dystopia never ends up arriving. Maybe this era is the worst dystopia.
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