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Post by thehightenor on Mar 28, 2024 10:42:01 GMT -6
When I built my main hardware rack - I got all esoteric and decided I'd go XLR for the patchbay (like the mastering engineers do) it means I can put mic inputs on the patch bay
and the connections are very robust etc.
I never hot plug pre-amp channels with phantom 48v on them (I'm up on all that) and as this has just been for tracking and mixing with my HEDD 192 I've not had a need
for normalising.
I bought an expensive Network Sound 16 way male/female XLR patch bay and it has DB25 to XLR cables going patchbay to rack gear - the patch bay is full.
All has been good.
Now I want to add into my studio a Ferrofish A32 Pro 32x32 converter and I'm thinking I'll get a bantam patchbay for the A32 and eventually more rack hardware.
Is it bad practice for me to keep the XLR patchbay I already have and simply buy "XLR to bantam" patch leads for the times I want to interface between the two patch bays?
Or should I sell the XLR patchbay and put everything on the bantam patchbay?
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Post by ericn on Mar 28, 2024 11:32:20 GMT -6
Mixing types of bays is not a problem, I’ll bet you realize the convenience of TT and eventually switch out the XLR panels.
Check out MR patchbay.
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Post by drbill on Mar 28, 2024 11:47:31 GMT -6
Personally, I'd go TT.
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Post by doubledog on Mar 28, 2024 12:55:19 GMT -6
I have both. XLR patchbays (ART P16's) are simply for convenience (so I don't have to crawl behind the desk/racks) and go straight to mic pre inputs. Then my TRS patchbays are for I/O to the Apollo interface. Most of my mic pres (outputs) go through the TRS patchbays as well but are normalled so that I can patch in/out other stuff if I want to. Actually one TRS patchbay is for inputs and one is for outputs (there are 24 jacks and I have 16/16 I/O). So then some of the jacks (17-24) are only connected to outboard gear. I honestly have no idea if this is how others would do it but it's how it works for me!
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Post by anders on Mar 28, 2024 13:06:15 GMT -6
I am running Bantam patchbays, but have a separate XLR field for preamps (with tielines from a Bantam bay going out through male XLRs) so I can choose to use preamp mic inputs in the signal flow. There are some spare male & female XLRs hooked up to the bantam patchbay for convenience, for instance for sending things out for reamping or inserting into Eurorack through a reamp box.
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Post by nicksteinborn on Mar 28, 2024 13:26:53 GMT -6
Running an ART P16 for XLR mic inputs and 2 TT DB25 patchbays for the rest. I just send the outs of my pres to the TT and patch accordingly from there.
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 28, 2024 13:36:50 GMT -6
What’s the appeal for the TT? I can see if you need a shit ton of patching, have a console…but the convenience of a PB where you can switch from N to HN to thru - is so easy. And no soldering. Or maybe I’m thinking of something else.
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Post by nicksteinborn on Mar 28, 2024 13:45:02 GMT -6
The Redcos are TT/DB25 and easily switchable from the top of the unit. The Switchcrafts are twice the price and switchable from the front of the unit.
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Post by ericn on Mar 28, 2024 13:49:32 GMT -6
What’s the appeal for the TT? I can see if you need a shit ton of patching, have a console…but the convenience of a PB where you can switch from N to HN to thru - is so easy. And no soldering. Or maybe I’m thinking of something else. Density, switching jacks, robust switching jacks. |
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Post by thehightenor on Mar 28, 2024 14:05:52 GMT -6
Thanks guys - great stuff.
As ever very helpful and instructive.
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Post by thehightenor on Mar 28, 2024 14:07:51 GMT -6
The Redcos are TT/DB25 and easily switchable from the top of the unit. The Switchcrafts are twice the price and switchable from the front of the unit. The Switch craft TT is really incredible and so is the price! I'd love one but it will take some saving up. |
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Post by thehightenor on Mar 28, 2024 14:10:34 GMT -6
db what do you use for patch leads? Some bantam patchleads like ones which are custom made with VanDamme cable and Neutrik plugs are $25 each! |
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Post by drbill on Mar 28, 2024 14:11:36 GMT -6
What’s the appeal for the TT? I can see if you need a shit ton of patching, have a console…but the convenience of a PB where you can switch from N to HN to thru - is so easy. And no soldering. Or maybe I’m thinking of something else. Density, switching jacks, robust switching jacks. With VERY few intermittents. Over decades, I can count the intermittents on less than one hand, and I really don't take care of my bays very well. On cheaper TRS bays, I've had that many intermittents in one session.... |
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Post by drbill on Mar 28, 2024 14:16:25 GMT -6
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Post by drbill on Mar 28, 2024 14:22:16 GMT -6
db what do you use for patch leads? Some bantam patchleads like ones which are custom made with VanDamme cable and Neutrik plugs are $25 each! PS - with enough I/o and a smartly designed bay that is 1/2 normalled, I find very minimal patch cable use anymore. Most of the time I'm rarely using a handful of cables. Before, when I had everything set up as tie lines, I was using hundreds. I'll try to find a pic. Each insert send and return essentially takes two patch bays and is good for 48 channels. I have them set up this way : Bay 1 PT OUT 1-48 1/2 normalled into Outboard Gear IN 1-48 Bay 2 Outboard Gear OUT 1-48 1/2 normalled into PT IN 1-48 The entire send/return for 48 channels is made with only having 2 patch bays, and ZERO cables needed for those inserts. All routing is done inside PT, and there is zero need for patch cables in normal use. |
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Post by drbill on Mar 28, 2024 14:27:21 GMT -6
Tie Line - non-normalled "traditional setup" patch bay :  1/2 Normalled smart setup patch bay : Attachment DeletedWhen I set up the new studio CRM, I was thinking console, tie lines, traditional.... It took about a week before I wanted to put a bullet in my head, and figured out that I needed to tear everything down and start over. And that "start over" cost a bunch of money, some burned fingers and several weeks. But was well worth it long term. |
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Post by thehightenor on Mar 28, 2024 14:50:23 GMT -6
Tie Line - non-normalled "traditional setup" patch bay : View Attachment1/2 Normalled smart setup patch bay : View AttachmentWhen I set up the new studio CRM, I was thinking console, tie lines, traditional.... It took about a week before I wanted to put a bullet in my head, and figured out that I needed to tear everything down and start over. And that "start over" cost a bunch of money, some burned fingers and several weeks. But was well worth it long term. Right - got it! That's genius .... I need to do some planning on paper and thinking about how I can do something similar. I can already see the me dropping my XLR bay and putting everyone on a TT. Thank you for those photos - that's a very graphic demonstration of your point. |
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Post by thehightenor on Mar 28, 2024 14:51:47 GMT -6
Thanks for those links. Really helpful. |
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Post by thirdeye on Mar 28, 2024 15:08:20 GMT -6
We have Redco db25 TT bays for everything except mic preamp inputs. We keep several XLRM to TT and XLRF to TT around for patching in outside gear or need to go to the XLR bay.
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Post by ericn on Mar 28, 2024 15:11:10 GMT -6
Density, switching jacks, robust switching jacks. With VERY few intermittents. Over decades, I can count the intermittents on less than one hand, and I really don't take care of my bays very well. On cheaper TRS bays, I've had that many intermittents in one session.... I do not consider generic TRS bays useful for anything except vent panels. |
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Post by ericn on Mar 28, 2024 15:15:28 GMT -6
Nickel for the win, gold and silver are to soft and wear away. One besides tie lines and mults an extra bay with a couple of phase reversal pairs, ground lift and maybe a couple of iso transformers keeps everything handy. If you standardize and pretty much bring everything to the bays you will find your drawer of adapters gets smaller because all you need is to adapt to TT. |
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Post by drbill on Mar 28, 2024 15:18:25 GMT -6
With VERY few intermittents. Over decades, I can count the intermittents on less than one hand, and I really don't take care of my bays very well. On cheaper TRS bays, I've had that many intermittents in one session.... I do not consider generic TRS bays useful for anything except vent panels. Haha!!!  |
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Post by drbill on Mar 28, 2024 15:25:30 GMT -6
For perspective : EVERY input/output on EVERY module comes up on the TT bays (barely countable) in this studio. David set this stuff up right..... This is the guy who pulled me HARDCORE into TT / EDAC patch bays with EDAC M to EDAC M patch snakes to group all bays, racks, interfaces together. Once you've done a deal to hook up this kind of gear, you begin to realize how important interconnects are. Attachment DeletedAttachment Deleted |
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Post by thehightenor on Mar 28, 2024 15:52:37 GMT -6
For perspective : EVERY input/output on EVERY module comes up on the TT bays (barely countable) in this studio. David set this stuff up right..... This is the guy who pulled me HARDCORE into TT / EDAC patch bays with EDAC M to EDAC M patch snakes to group all bays, racks, interfaces together. Once you've done a deal to hook up this kind of gear, you begin to realize how important interconnects are. View AttachmentView AttachmentThat looks like a large music store! |
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Post by ericn on Mar 28, 2024 15:53:54 GMT -6
For perspective : EVERY input/output on EVERY module comes up on the TT bays (barely countable) in this studio. David set this stuff up right..... This is the guy who pulled me HARDCORE into TT / EDAC patch bays with EDAC M to EDAC M patch snakes to group all bays, racks, interfaces together. Once you've done a deal to hook up this kind of gear, you begin to realize how important interconnects are. View AttachmentView AttachmentAs it should be! I at one point even had stereo links on mono compressors at the bay & a bay dedicated to SMPTE. Why? Hate digging in racks ! |
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