kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 28, 2024 2:04:24 GMT -6
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Post by Dan on Feb 28, 2024 7:19:54 GMT -6
Where is it made? Is the cabinet braced? How durable/disposable are the plate amps? Is the cabinet resonant? How much does the ring radiator tweeter beam?
The reviewer said absolutely nothing and only compared a cheap, small three way speaker to a more expensive way speaker with an 8” cone crossed over to 1” dome tweeter. Those usually have crossover issues unless they do some crazy stuff like have a woofer so limited that it never moves (Yamaha HS8 uses a woofer probably made from recycled Sapporo cans and still beams!) or use a very expensive woofer and an oversize tweeter.Quested H108 and V2108 crossover a 1.125” tweeter with the phase flipped. It has a dark top end. Of course a three way system is going to have a better midrange at the cost of an additional, maybe audible crossover.
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 28, 2024 7:37:41 GMT -6
Ask the company Dan, everyone knows Barefoot makes shit !
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Post by enlav on Feb 28, 2024 7:43:54 GMT -6
I've been interested in these considering they're the most affordable barefoot models to date (as far as my memory goes). It seems like the a vocal number of people who bought them as soon as possible are dealing with a noise floor issue that is seemingly higher than expected (and acknowledged by barefoot sound?). This is what I've gathered reading around so far.
I'm hoping I can make it out to a showroom at some point to hear them in person but I should probably be focusing on paying off bills first.
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Post by andersmv on Feb 28, 2024 8:06:02 GMT -6
I think Barefoot sorted the noise issue, just needed a firmware update (but they have to be shipped back). Apparently it was a few early serial numbers and they've pulled all of them. Looks like they're gearing up for Atmos world as well.
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Post by svart on Feb 28, 2024 8:15:17 GMT -6
I dunno man. I said it before and I'll say it again, I auditioned the footprint 01's when I was in the market for new monitors and they were so weirdly disappointing that I'm still mad about it. All I heard was how amazing barefoot monitors were, and all the reviews of the Footprint 01's had similarly glowing reviews to the tapeop article above..
And they weren't amazing. Weird imaging issues, weird frequency response. It was apparent from the moment of playback.
I would implore anyone looking at these to test before you buy, or at least confirm you have the ability to return them.
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 28, 2024 8:35:35 GMT -6
^^This^^, completely agree as these are also a brand new design, $1,000 above the Kali 3 way, $400 below Dyn 48.
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Post by andersmv on Feb 28, 2024 8:48:31 GMT -6
I dunno man. I said it before and I'll say it again, I auditioned the footprint 01's when I was in the market for new monitors and they were so weirdly disappointing that I'm still mad about it. All I heard was how amazing barefoot monitors were, and all the reviews of the Footprint 01's had similarly glowing reviews to the tapeop article above.. And they weren't amazing. Weird imaging issues, weird frequency response. It was apparent from the moment of playback. I would implore anyone looking at these to test before you buy, or at least confirm you have the ability to return them. I wouldn't overthink it, I've had the same reaction to a LOT of really well loved speakers. I just can't get around Genelecs, and I spent years on some larger 3 way mains in a nice room doing my best to get used to them. If you don't like them, just move on until you find something that works!
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Post by Dan on Feb 28, 2024 8:54:18 GMT -6
^^This^^, completely agree as these are also a brand new design, $1,000 above the Kali 3 way, $400 below Dyn 48. The new Kali SM-5-C is out of stock everywhere, is 1000 a speaker, and requires a paired LEA amplifier that costs another thousand or more.
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 28, 2024 9:35:04 GMT -6
I was referring to the cheaper In8v2, which are available.
Thx for the reference was unaware of that model!
“ The key to the SM-Series? high performance is its 3-way coincident architecture. This design allows for the ultra-lifelike imaging of a coaxial speaker, while delivering the low distortion and midrange clarity that only a 3-way can achieve.
Not only are the midrange and tweeter coaxial, they are also coincident, meaning that they are physically time aligned and thus phase coherent from all angles.
The SM-Series speakers are acoustic point sources, and particular care has been given to the transition from the midrange to the baffle. This transition is seamless to the edge of the speaker, resulting in an engrossing stereo image where details are lifelike and crisp.
Amplification The SM-5-C requires a power amplifier. Kali recommends bi-amplifying the speakers using an LEA amplifier with at least 100W per channel. For example, the LEA Connect 164 160W per channel 4-channel amplifier is the minimum choice for a pair of SM-5-Cs. Configuration files for LEA amplifiers can be found by clicking this link. Refer to the user?s manual for instructions for programming the LEA amplifier”
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Barefoot 3
Feb 28, 2024 11:01:44 GMT -6
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 28, 2024 11:01:44 GMT -6
^^This^^, completely agree as these are also a brand new design, $1,000 above the Kali 3 way, $400 below Dyn 48. Hmmm. Tell me more about these Kali 3 ways
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kcatthedog
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Barefoot 3
Feb 28, 2024 11:30:29 GMT -6
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 28, 2024 11:30:29 GMT -6
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 28, 2024 16:49:44 GMT -6
I've got the Kali 3 Way In-5. It's reliable and accurate enough. Not super transparent, but well balanced., pretty good imaging.
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Post by noob on Feb 28, 2024 17:00:40 GMT -6
I dunno man. I said it before and I'll say it again, I auditioned the footprint 01's when I was in the market for new monitors and they were so weirdly disappointing that I'm still mad about it. All I heard was how amazing barefoot monitors were, and all the reviews of the Footprint 01's had similarly glowing reviews to the tapeop article above.. And they weren't amazing. Weird imaging issues, weird frequency response. It was apparent from the moment of playback. I would implore anyone looking at these to test before you buy, or at least confirm you have the ability to return them. I always thought the 01's were awesome, but never for mixing and accuracy. However, I think the 03's are a much cleaner design for a 3-way. The 01 and 02 crossovers seem kind of tilted towards hip hop and dance production, whereas these 03's will probably be much more balanced overall - just my guess though because of their design.
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Feb 28, 2024 18:44:55 GMT -6
Where is it made? Is the cabinet braced? How durable/disposable are the plate amps? Is the cabinet resonant? How much does the ring radiator tweeter beam? The reviewer said absolutely nothing and only compared a cheap, small three way speaker to a more expensive way speaker with an 8” cone crossed over to 1” dome tweeter. Those usually have crossover issues unless they do some crazy stuff like have a woofer so limited that it never moves (Yamaha HS8 uses a woofer probably made from recycled Sapporo cans and still beams!) or use a very expensive woofer and an oversize tweeter.Quested H108 and V2108 crossover a 1.125” tweeter with the phase flipped. It has a dark top end. Of course a three way system is going to have a better midrange at the cost of an additional, maybe audible crossover. So glad you're back, man. Don't fade out on us from the energy overload though! Coming out hot.
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Post by jeremygillespie on Feb 29, 2024 6:26:46 GMT -6
For what it’s worth, to the folks saying they are made for hip hop and dance music or whatever… meh not really. Ryan Freeland uses them and makes some of the most beautiful acoustic records I’ve ever heard.
Also, I got my footprint 01’s when they came out and I have yet to blow up one of their plate amps (whatever that is) or blow my ear drums out with the beaming junk tweeters 😁
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kcatthedog
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Barefoot 3
Feb 29, 2024 6:39:40 GMT -6
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 29, 2024 6:39:40 GMT -6
I respect Dan’s concerns, but the truth is in the listening.I thought the tape op review well considerd.
He made it clear that for him they are just tools, he needed to learn them as he was used to his 2 way monitors , then, use, critique his mix and validate, which he also did .
I know we will debate gear quality, till the cows come home and that there are peeps here with deep knowledge and expertise and my but is, sure, but it all comes down to the awareness and skill of the engineer.
A bad one’s mixes will suck on good gear, a good one, will always make good mixes, on good or not so good gear.
But, this is my anecdotal awareness of Barefoots, peeps either talk them up or down: I don’t know , never tried them: still interested in the 3’s.
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Post by thehightenor on Feb 29, 2024 8:21:58 GMT -6
Budget ATC 25's maybe? .... a very similar design approach - even down to the side port.
If they sound OK the price seems good.
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Post by noob on Feb 29, 2024 8:24:48 GMT -6
For what it’s worth, to the folks saying they are made for hip hop and dance music or whatever… meh not really. Ryan Freeland uses them and makes some of the most beautiful acoustic records I’ve ever heard. Of course, I know a ton of people with 01's who work on all types of genres. I don't think they were actually *made* for club music, I just think the crossovers are weird and even though it's technically a 3-way, things can get pretty hazy in the low mids. Yet, amazing bass/sub response though, which is what those genres are all about. I actually know a mastering engineer who uses 01's as his only monitor in a tiny little room, and does amazing work. Sometimes things just don't really make sense logically, but it's all about the specific person and how they hear the music, how well they know their monitors/room.
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Post by noob on Feb 29, 2024 8:34:31 GMT -6
Budget ATC 25's maybe? .... a very similar design approach - even down to the side port. If they sound OK the price seems good. That was my first thought when I saw the design and the side ports.
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Barefoot 3
Feb 29, 2024 12:24:28 GMT -6
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 29, 2024 12:24:28 GMT -6
At under $2000, it’s an interesting design price point, of course, the proof is in the listening pudding!
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Post by ericn on Feb 29, 2024 14:16:44 GMT -6
Budget ATC 25's maybe? .... a very similar design approach - even down to the side port. If they sound OK the price seems good. Maybe a slight influence in appearance, but really there isn’t much else you can do with a 3 way near field. Other than that very different drivers and priorities as well as Amp and front end.
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Post by ericn on Feb 29, 2024 14:37:02 GMT -6
^^This^^, completely agree as these are also a brand new design, $1,000 above the Kali 3 way, $400 below Dyn 48. Hmmm. Tell me more about these Kali 3 ways While they do punch a bit above their price point and I do recommend them for the $, in your room with your taste maybe as a second set but not as your only monitors. First of all an inexpensive 3 way is always going to have a lot of compromises. Your splitting your driver budget 3 ways rather than in 2 and if you tramp you need another ch of amplification and DSP. I really find them fun for home theater, so so for music. The $90 Scanspeak mid in my Questeds kick the Kali mid up and down the block, yes the DSP and driver. Choice in the Kali results in a flatter response, but I can’t critically listen to the Kali’s nearly as long. Every time I spend time with the Kali after 5 minutes I find myself thinking if they had spent more everywhere and doubled the price they could have a very cool speaker, I want better drivers amps etc. The other thing is for real pin point imaging they could have made the design decision to mount the tweeter on the same axis as the woofer / mid. Mount the tweet in a enclosure shaped like a phase plug for the mid, used a really ridged mount and delay to time align the 3 drivers, the mid is aligned via DSP so why not the HF. Not bad but a speaker that really leaves you wondering what could have been. One thing on 3 ways vs 2 ways, one of the biggest advantages of a 3way is that you can pretty much cover the entire vocal range with one driver and no crossover mucking things up, always remember that you still have to intergrate 3 drivers together so while you don’t have an x over in the vocal range, you still have 2 crossovers rather than 1 mucking things up. Overall neither technique is superior just different.
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Post by noob on Feb 29, 2024 14:39:18 GMT -6
Budget ATC 25's maybe? .... a very similar design approach - even down to the side port. If they sound OK the price seems good. Maybe a slight influence in appearance, but really there isn’t much else you can do with a 3 way near field. Other than that very different drivers and priorities as well as Amp and front end. Absolutely agree with you here. Two very different approaches, but also a $4-5k difference in price. Barefoot tends to prioritize technological speaker innovation, more "advanced" materials, while ATC is entirely focused on accuracy and natural acoustic representation. No doubt the 25's would sound much more accurate, especially in transient response and midrange, I'd much rather get their A/B class amps than the class D in the 03's. All that being said, I am excited to hear the 03's and hear what they can do.
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Post by ericn on Feb 29, 2024 14:50:35 GMT -6
Maybe a slight influence in appearance, but really there isn’t much else you can do with a 3 way near field. Other than that very different drivers and priorities as well as Amp and front end. Absolutely agree with you here. Two very different approaches, but also a $4-5k difference in price. Barefoot tends to prioritize technological speaker innovation, more "advanced" materials, while ATC is entirely focused on accuracy and natural acoustic representation. No doubt the 25's would sound much more accurate, especially in transient response and midrange, I'd much rather get their A/B class amps than the class D in the 03's. All that being said, I am excited to hear the 03's and hear what they can do. I have a near field 3 way design that I have been playing with since Volt announced their 6.5 in woofer. Unless you go active most of the x over is padding down the mid and tweeter. Doing it with DSP just makes things easy but the only amps I currently have 6 matching ch of are the Stewart World 2.1 s in the live rack, not nearly the detail I want for these and a bit of overkill.
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