ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Feb 28, 2024 11:20:01 GMT -6
"I is not handy" is one of my defining characteristics. Yeah, guess who this has me thinking of 😁 |
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,098
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Post by ericn on Feb 28, 2024 16:31:09 GMT -6
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Post by chessparov on Feb 28, 2024 19:59:13 GMT -6
Practicing my clickbait headlines for future YouTube possibilities. Anyway - if I sawed off the middle of this desk so I could scoot my monitor back - it shouldn’t be an issue with it structurally right? I normally have it on the main desk scooted back as close to the front ledge as it will go back…but my monitor has always been in front of the speakers and I suspect futzing with sound…so I’d like to cut that center part of the ledge off and scoot it back to at least be even with the speakers.  I'm not at all convinced about small computer monitors messing with the sound. My wife helped me double blind ABX test my 24" monitor being placed between my ATC 25's (which are set back on proper stands in a 5ft triangle with my sitting position) I was blind folded and led into the studio onto my seat and music played back and I had to determine if the 24" Dell monitor was there on the desk or not. We repeated the process about 20 times (crazy I know) and I had to say THERE - NOT THERE and my lovely patient wife recorded the result. It was great myth busting experience for me, I was just guessing - there was absolutely no way I could tell if the PC monitor was there or not. To verify, the 24" monitor does not cover up any part pf my ATC 25's as the tweeters and mids are placed approx. 4 feet apart and the bass drivers 5 feet apart. So there it is - in my world, in my studio, my 24" PC monitor is completely invisible to my ears when placed in front of ATC 25's which are set back on stands. Next "first Date" I'll try that Blindfold thing. ("Do my Speakers make me sound Fat?) Actually I'm pretty Digital BTW.  Also very Psychic. Lots of ESPN experiences. And fully Monitored too. Chris |
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Post by thehightenor on Feb 29, 2024 2:05:28 GMT -6
I'm not at all convinced about small computer monitors messing with the sound. My wife helped me double blind ABX test my 24" monitor being placed between my ATC 25's (which are set back on proper stands in a 5ft triangle with my sitting position) I was blind folded and led into the studio onto my seat and music played back and I had to determine if the 24" Dell monitor was there on the desk or not. We repeated the process about 20 times (crazy I know) and I had to say THERE - NOT THERE and my lovely patient wife recorded the result. It was great myth busting experience for me, I was just guessing - there was absolutely no way I could tell if the PC monitor was there or not. To verify, the 24" monitor does not cover up any part pf my ATC 25's as the tweeters and mids are placed approx. 4 feet apart and the bass drivers 5 feet apart. So there it is - in my world, in my studio, my 24" PC monitor is completely invisible to my ears when placed in front of ATC 25's which are set back on stands. Is it supposed to be a 5ft equilateral triangle? Or does it matter the length - more just equilateral? In my case it is more or less an equilateral triangle of about 4.5ft. The most important element in setting up ATC 25’s is the mid driver is more or less exactly at sitting ear height - so I bought height adjustable stands. |
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Post by thehightenor on Feb 29, 2024 2:09:24 GMT -6
I know this…I have a ton more space and my reading glasses work better. My first thought was it was a little dark now that it’s farther away…I need to maybe think about a new monitor. One more sidebar. If you're using regular reading glasses and not ones that are factored for computer usage you may want to look into that. I primarily wear glasses only to read, but the glasses I wear for work (3 monitors all day) are specific to having monitors out in front. Whether you get them from your eye doctor or order online at a place like eyebuydirect, etc., you can use your prescription (if you have one) and specify they're for computer usage. It takes into account the distance between you and the monitor, which regular reading glasses do not. I use bifocal glasses the bottom section does reading distance and the top section does computer monitors and sheet music at arms length. This means, my computer monitor has to be at arms length from my eyes and therefore I’m restricted to a single 24” monitor so that I am certain of zero interference with my ATC 25’s. And anyway I hate screens they so distract from music making and I have a hot key on my keyboard to screen blank and I try to keep the screen blanked as much as possible especially listening back to anything. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 1, 2024 11:44:12 GMT -6
I can pop up the before and after…honestly doesn’t seem to change that much on the trinnov graphs. And I guess it doesn’t really matter if the point of the trinnov is to make it flat. The phase seems to be a little better on the graph. Does it sound different? I haven’t had enough time with it yet. I thiiiink it might have a little better center image. I know this…I have a ton more space and my reading glasses work better. My first thought was it was a little dark now that it’s farther away…I need to maybe think about a new monitor. This might be a dumb question, but is it possible you're having issues because your amphions are somwhat behind your desk? They are probably reflecting right off of that surface in front of them, wouldn't be surprised if that's causing phasing or reflection issues at all. Have you ever tried using isolation pads and putting them directly on the desk? Now I'm paranoid lol. I think I responded that putting them there gave me a 5' triangle from my listening position. So, I'd like to keep them there. What would you put on that surface to reduce reflection? |
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 1, 2024 11:46:32 GMT -6
One more sidebar. If you're using regular reading glasses and not ones that are factored for computer usage you may want to look into that. I primarily wear glasses only to read, but the glasses I wear for work (3 monitors all day) are specific to having monitors out in front. Whether you get them from your eye doctor or order online at a place like eyebuydirect, etc., you can use your prescription (if you have one) and specify they're for computer usage. It takes into account the distance between you and the monitor, which regular reading glasses do not. I use bifocal glasses the bottom section does reading distance and the top section does computer monitors and sheet music at arms length. This means, my computer monitor has to be at arms length from my eyes and therefore I’m restricted to a single 24” monitor so that I am certain of zero interference with my ATC 25’s. And anyway I hate screens they so distract from music making and I have a hot key on my keyboard to screen blank and I try to keep the screen blanked as much as possible especially listening back to anything. Wish I could figure out the shortcut in Ventura...I used to use I think ctrl-shift-power to make the screen blank...but seems like since Ventura, when I do that, it just pops back up after 10 seconds or so. |
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Post by noob on Mar 1, 2024 11:50:08 GMT -6
This might be a dumb question, but is it possible you're having issues because your amphions are somwhat behind your desk? They are probably reflecting right off of that surface in front of them, wouldn't be surprised if that's causing phasing or reflection issues at all. Have you ever tried using isolation pads and putting them directly on the desk? Now I'm paranoid lol. I think I responded that putting them there gave me a 5' triangle from my listening position. So, I'd like to keep them there. What would you put on that surface to reduce reflection? You can definitely reduce the desk reflections with a mat, ideally acoustic fabric, or some type of desk pad. Acoustic foam also would also diffuse that direct reflection a bit, but I assume you want to be able to put things on top of the desk and use it from time to time. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 1, 2024 11:54:49 GMT -6
Now I'm paranoid lol. I think I responded that putting them there gave me a 5' triangle from my listening position. So, I'd like to keep them there. What would you put on that surface to reduce reflection? You can definitely reduce the desk reflections with a mat, ideally acoustic fabric, or some type of desk pad. Acoustic foam also would also diffuse that direct reflection a bit, but I assume you want to be able to put things on top of the desk and use it from time to time. Well, I don't ever set anything in front of the speakers. Gonna google - but didn't know there was acoustic fabric? I'm not sure I have any Auraulex left...but that's pretty ugly anyway. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 1, 2024 11:57:18 GMT -6
Hmm...maybe I could make a little 2" "absorber" to put on each shelf in front of the monitors.
(Now that I’m a man and can use power tools)
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Post by noob on Mar 1, 2024 11:58:43 GMT -6
You can definitely reduce the desk reflections with a mat, ideally acoustic fabric, or some type of desk pad. Acoustic foam also would also diffuse that direct reflection a bit, but I assume you want to be able to put things on top of the desk and use it from time to time. Well, I don't ever set anything in front of the speakers. Gonna google - but didn't know there was acoustic fabric? I'm not sure I have any Auraulex left...but that's pretty ugly anyway. It doesn't really have to be acoustic fabric per se, even though it does exist for curtains and such. It could just be carpet/fabric/mat material, anything besides a hard desk surface. |
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,098
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Post by ericn on Mar 1, 2024 12:10:54 GMT -6
This might be a dumb question, but is it possible you're having issues because your amphions are somwhat behind your desk? They are probably reflecting right off of that surface in front of them, wouldn't be surprised if that's causing phasing or reflection issues at all. Have you ever tried using isolation pads and putting them directly on the desk? Now I'm paranoid lol. I think I responded that putting them there gave me a 5' triangle from my listening position. So, I'd like to keep them there. What would you put on that surface to reduce reflection? In the Grand old days of running Giant JBL 4560 mid- bass horns stacked live we found in rooms with reflective floors trapezoid pieces of heavy carpet with a nice thick pad would cut early reflections in the mid range. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 1, 2024 13:55:25 GMT -6
Now I'm paranoid lol. I think I responded that putting them there gave me a 5' triangle from my listening position. So, I'd like to keep them there. What would you put on that surface to reduce reflection? In the Grand old days of running Giant JBL 4560 mid- bass horns stacked live we found in rooms with reflective floors trapezoid pieces of heavy carpet with a nice thick pad would cut early reflections in the mid range. Just got some carpet installed and have some left over. Might cut that to shape and see what happens. |
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,098
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Post by ericn on Mar 1, 2024 14:07:19 GMT -6
In the Grand old days of running Giant JBL 4560 mid- bass horns stacked live we found in rooms with reflective floors trapezoid pieces of heavy carpet with a nice thick pad would cut early reflections in the mid range. Just got some carpet installed and have some left over. Might cut that to shape and see what happens. Might as well it’s free and if it works it works. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 1, 2024 14:47:39 GMT -6
Just got some carpet installed and have some left over. Might cut that to shape and see what happens. Might as well it’s free and if it works it works. I have no idea if I'm hearing reflections...or what that means to my ears...guess I will find out. |
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,098
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Post by ericn on Mar 1, 2024 15:11:44 GMT -6
If it effects anything sonically and you like it run with it!
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Post by popmann on Mar 1, 2024 20:53:14 GMT -6
I wish id seen this earlier. We have the same desk! ive modified where the front legs mount on mine to slide the 88key Kronos up under….and I took a saw to the same area, BUT i left a strip connecting it in the back…and put a VESA arm mount , which ironicallymeant I had to take another chunk from that strip that was left. i dont know if a pic would help….I mean at this point, you've removed it all together, looks like? Its heavy duty pressed “wood” it will probably be fine. You're way was easier!  |
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Post by popmann on Mar 1, 2024 21:04:27 GMT -6
Front where i moved the legs (out wider) to get the keys up under…. Attachment DeletedYou know….you gotta have a game controller in a recording studio. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 1, 2024 22:15:37 GMT -6
I wish id seen this earlier. We have the same desk! ive modified where the front legs mount on mine to slide the 88key Kronos up under….and I took a saw to the same area, BUT i left a strip connecting it in the back…and put a VESA arm mount , which ironicallymeant I had to take another chunk from that strip that was left. i dont know if a pic would help….I mean at this point, you've removed it all together, looks like? Its heavy duty pressed “wood” it will probably be fine. You're way was easier! View AttachmentI thought about doing exactly that actually - but I didn’t trust myself to make that precise of a cut lol. |
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Post by popmann on Mar 2, 2024 0:10:35 GMT -6
The tricky part was less the cut as getting the border reattached after...I seem to remember it needs some kind of little routed slot out of the middle for it to poke it's little part in...I don't think I have a traditional routing tool...don't remember exactly how I achieved it.
Legs were easy, if you ever need to move them...they're just...you just move the leg base holders from memory. I mean--PIA having to put the thing on it's side...
You can't really tell in my first Ipad pic, but when I bought it, I affixed a long plastic window box (like for plants) to the backside to hide cables and plugs, etc...I can't complain...I mean I've had this desk for...at least 3 studio iterations at two houses...and memory has it priced at like $599? I mean--usually studio furniture was SOO crazy priced...the compromise was when I had the big rack of analog goodies, I had a third roll around floor standing rack. I built that one with some recovered rack rails from an old refridge sized unit I had back in the day...I'm handy cuz I'm cheap! Ha. Probably still have the rails in the garage!! Repurposed the wood of the rack a while back for a ramp for my elderly pup.
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Post by thehightenor on Mar 2, 2024 6:57:46 GMT -6
I use bifocal glasses the bottom section does reading distance and the top section does computer monitors and sheet music at arms length. This means, my computer monitor has to be at arms length from my eyes and therefore I’m restricted to a single 24” monitor so that I am certain of zero interference with my ATC 25’s. And anyway I hate screens they so distract from music making and I have a hot key on my keyboard to screen blank and I try to keep the screen blanked as much as possible especially listening back to anything. Wish I could figure out the shortcut in Ventura...I used to use I think ctrl-shift-power to make the screen blank...but seems like since Ventura, when I do that, it just pops back up after 10 seconds or so. Another small area I prefer the customisation Windows offers. Windows allows you to create a blank screen saver shortcut to put on the quick launch task bar. It's become second nature now, anyone who comes to work with me in the studio always comments on how the screen is off for all playback - it makes a big difference to me - I think screens are very distracting from the music - it's the equivalent of closing your eyes to listen back to something. I see people with 2 or even 3 huge screens or even more amazing to me a huge TV sized screen 55" + ..... I literally cannot image anything worse! |
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Post by thehightenor on Mar 2, 2024 7:02:48 GMT -6
This might be a dumb question, but is it possible you're having issues because your amphions are somwhat behind your desk? They are probably reflecting right off of that surface in front of them, wouldn't be surprised if that's causing phasing or reflection issues at all. Have you ever tried using isolation pads and putting them directly on the desk? Now I'm paranoid lol. I think I responded that putting them there gave me a 5' triangle from my listening position. So, I'd like to keep them there. What would you put on that surface to reduce reflection? Again test test test. Get someone to put something on the desk or not on desk and whilst your blindfolded .... say whether the treatment is there or not. I have busted so many myths about this stuff - starting with PC screens. My ATC's are behind my desk and at ear level and my desk is NOT introducing any reflections I could detect on a double blind ABX. I have things on my desk - many controllers - they are acting as diffusers. |
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Post by the other mark williams on Mar 2, 2024 10:35:35 GMT -6
Now I'm paranoid lol. I think I responded that putting them there gave me a 5' triangle from my listening position. So, I'd like to keep them there. What would you put on that surface to reduce reflection? Again test test test. Get someone to put something on the desk or not on desk and whilst your blindfolded .... say whether the treatment is there or not. I have busted so many myths about this stuff - starting with PC screens. My ATC's are behind my desk and at ear level and my desk is NOT introducing any reflections I could detect on a double blind ABX. I have things on my desk - many controllers - they are acting as diffusers. Can you post a pic of your desk setup, Mr. Tenor? Would love to see it. |
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