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Post by shakermaker on Feb 27, 2024 18:50:18 GMT -6
Great vid. always really dig your vids, you go deeper than most of the yt ppl. curious, does this plugin have anything to do with the potential of you sell your api box? And possibly going in a "bit of a new direction"?  |
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Post by andersmv on Feb 27, 2024 19:00:30 GMT -6
Great vid. always really dig your vids, you go deeper than most of the yt ppl. curious, does this plugin have anything to do with the potential of you sell your api box? And possibly going in a "bit of a new direction"? Thanks, I’m trying to do a better job than most of the stuff I see out there… I’ve been thinking of selling the console for a while. First thing I checked out and reviewed was the Coil preamps, because a few people said they did well at line level too. Then I checked out the Undertone Pyra Sum, really amazing unit and lots of potential. Ziad reached out to me about the plugin, and I almost blew him off (I have a lot of software people reaching out to me on a weekly basis now and it’s generally not something I want to focus on too heavily), but the layout and concept of the Sidecar seemed really intriguing and similar to my workflow, so I gave it a try and was surprised how great it was. |
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Post by robo on Feb 27, 2024 19:59:56 GMT -6
This plugin is good! I was doing a mix revision for a client and the notes were broad enough that I was reinventing things a bit anyway. I just sent the revision with the plugin replacing three plugins on the master bus, so I guess I’ll probably be buying it!
It sounds quite a bit better oversampled in Reaper, so it’d probably benefit from some internal options for that (unless I’m missing something). I would also love to be able to swap the eq/compressor order. Regardless, the quality does seem to be high. Hopefully there will be more like this in the future.
The stand-alone eq is nice. The curves and saturation are integrated in a way I haven’t heard in software. I haven’t messed with it enough to know if it will become a staple.
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Post by bgrotto on Feb 27, 2024 20:38:55 GMT -6
It was too bad I didn't get as much traction as I was hoping with that one, as I literally spent months of work on that. UA ended up taking a lot of issues with my methodology at the end and copp'ed out on sharing any of it because they felt like there was too much of a different between Vintage and Modern API. Meh, anyway... This Pulsar Modular plugin  Difference in modern vs vintage API? Not sure the vision console is considerate vintage? I have the AlexB new Nebula version of Vision console and his 1608. I will test them on a mix soon FWIW, the larger format APIs definitely impart more of a sound than their smaller counterparts. We had a 1608 at my studio for years, and briefly even had a Box when we were waiting for the second half of that 1608 to get delivered. While I've never had the pleasure of working on a Vision, these days, I worked pretty regularly on a Legacy+. The Legacy desks definitely have more of a 'sound' than my 1608 did. And the Box was relatively transparent to my ears. It's no real surprise considering the layout and signal path of these desks that the larger ones create a more distinctive tone. So I think a comparison between the Vision plugs and something like a Box would indeed be a bit misleading. As the question of "vintage", I guess *maybe* the Legacy+ might be considered vintage, but when I think "vintage API" I'm generally thinking like early 70s L.A. Heider kind of stuff. I've been fortunate to work a couple times on API of that lineage, and the sonics on those things are indeed quite different from modern (or even Legacy-era "vintage-ish") API. |
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Post by ragan on Feb 27, 2024 23:40:14 GMT -6
Tangential, but I’ve really been digging, and using the hell out of, the UAD API Vision channel strip.
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Post by notneeson on Feb 28, 2024 0:25:32 GMT -6
Difference in modern vs vintage API? Not sure the vision console is considerate vintage? I have the AlexB new Nebula version of Vision console and his 1608. I will test them on a mix soon FWIW, the larger format APIs definitely impart more of a sound than their smaller counterparts. We had a 1608 at my studio for years, and briefly even had a Box when we were waiting for the second half of that 1608 to get delivered. While I've never had the pleasure of working on a Vision, these days, I worked pretty regularly on a Legacy+. The Legacy desks definitely have more of a 'sound' than my 1608 did. And the Box was relatively transparent to my ears. It's no real surprise considering the layout and signal path of these desks that the larger ones create a more distinctive tone. So I think a comparison between the Vision plugs and something like a Box would indeed be a bit misleading. As the question of "vintage", I guess *maybe* the Legacy+ might be considered vintage, but when I think "vintage API" I'm generally thinking like early 70s L.A. Heider kind of stuff. I've been fortunate to work a couple times on API of that lineage, and the sonics on those things are indeed quite different from modern (or even Legacy-era "vintage-ish") API. It was a revelation for me when I got stuff I had tracked on the Legacy AXS here in town back to my place and realized how much extra mojo you're getting off the large fader signal path. Thing is, that's not quite what you have on your masters. |
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Post by andersmv on Feb 29, 2024 21:29:52 GMT -6
You definitely get used to how nicely things stack and build up over time on sessions done all on API stuff. I did comparisons between my Box console and my friends 1608 utilizing the groups on a mix. It’s a subtle difference, but they are different. If you’re curious, search for MillSounds API on YouTube and go to the Part 3 video where I do comparisons between our consoles and Luna Summing. The Luna Summing did a good job too in my opinion, but was much more exaggerated to my ears than the real analog stuff I’ve worked on. Not a bad thing they voiced it like that, the API thing can be pretty subtle and leaves a lot of people a little stumped who are expecting a night and day analog difference.
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Post by theshea on Mar 4, 2024 11:21:33 GMT -6
demoing it. it does „a thing“ thats making it sound more like a record. i put it on the busses with the 8-channel option and played with the input and bias. both can shape the sound nicely. i did not use the eq or the comp as the song was already mixed. on the mixbus i choose the 2-channel and some subtle (well, +2db that is in API land) low and high shelf.
than i did the same with klanghelm sddr in desk mode as it offers transformer color, input saturation, x-crosstalk and low and high shelving. but the pm mdn sounded more finished. i really wanted to make the sddr work as i already own it and don‘t want to buy the pm men sidecar. but it seems worth it …
so with a few clicks it really did bring the mix more over the line, almost making mastering superflous. but i am still not shure if i like its widening effect. the bias knob is the real star.
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spud
Junior Member
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Post by spud on Mar 4, 2024 12:12:13 GMT -6
You can add less that 2db with the EQ by using the multiplier in the middle.
And for the widening, this is the 8ch mode which add this effect, it's less pronounced in 2ch mode.
This plugin(s) is (are) a bit expensive too me but worth it. I tested two mixes on which I put the EQ on all the tracks and the P455 just on the master bus (8ch mod) and I found that it really brought a big plus to the whole, really love this plugins!
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Post by theshea on Mar 5, 2024 13:40:26 GMT -6
You can add less that 2db with the EQ by using the multiplier in the middle. And for the widening, this is the 8ch mode which add this effect, it's less pronounced in 2ch mode. This plugin(s) is (are) a bit expensive too me but worth it. I tested two mixes on which I put the EQ on all the tracks and the P455 just on the master bus (8ch mod) and I found that it really brought a big plus to the whole, really love this plugins! yeah, the 8-channel on the busses is too much stereo widening. not much of my trial time left and i still haven‘t checked the eq yet! on another song i put it on vocal and drumbusses it did tuck the vocal into the mix perfectly. the saturation is very very nice. and again, it gave a more soundslikearecord sound … |
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Post by sentientsound on Mar 5, 2024 14:39:45 GMT -6
Playing with the 2ch/8ch, ADC, input drive and bias all shape the imaging in interesting ways for me here.
I've found a nice configuration which is:
Drums n Bass submaster: 2ch, clean ADC, input boost, a little high and low EQ help
Music Near submaster: 8ch, clean ADC, Line Amp on, bias tweaked until things come together and forward a bit, mild HP/LP like 70Hz/15k
Music Far submaster: 8ch, vibey ADC, bias dialed back, more aggressive selections of HP/LP like 90Hz/5k, low shelf cut to reduce proximity
I keep the vocals 'straight through' to the master bus.
This is getting me a really nice sense of dimension quickly along with the Silver Bullet doing its Aspect Ratio on the master.
Definitely a setup to mix into from the start IMO.
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Post by theshea on Mar 8, 2024 6:05:14 GMT -6
anyone demoed it against the silver bullet plugin? as both are some sort of mixbus mojo machines. my trial periods expires soon so no time to try em both …
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Post by sentientsound on Mar 8, 2024 12:46:29 GMT -6
anyone demoed it against the silver bullet plugin? as both are some sort of mixbus mojo machines. my trial periods expires soon so no time to try em both … I purchased both and have a HW SB (mkI). The hardware obviously has preamps but the plugin version is otherwise behaving similarly at modest settings. The HW pulls ahead in heavier drive but mine lacks those cool Mk2 features. I use the plugin a lot for the aspect ratio button on buses and for sound design with the more creative color modules or heavy blended saturation. The PM Sidecar is awesome and is much more versatile for EQ and filtering, but has a different tone and its own few variations in the image presentation. It probably goes without saying it's a matter of taste which one feels better on a full mix. It has a surprisingly nice gluey compressor. It isn't great at totally distorting things which the SB does well. Hope that helps... |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,086 
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Post by ericn on Mar 10, 2024 13:38:48 GMT -6
Difference in modern vs vintage API? Not sure the vision console is considerate vintage? I have the AlexB new Nebula version of Vision console and his 1608. I will test them on a mix soon FWIW, the larger format APIs definitely impart more of a sound than their smaller counterparts. We had a 1608 at my studio for years, and briefly even had a Box when we were waiting for the second half of that 1608 to get delivered. While I've never had the pleasure of working on a Vision, these days, I worked pretty regularly on a Legacy+. The Legacy desks definitely have more of a 'sound' than my 1608 did. And the Box was relatively transparent to my ears. It's no real surprise considering the layout and signal path of these desks that the larger ones create a more distinctive tone. So I think a comparison between the Vision plugs and something like a Box would indeed be a bit misleading. As the question of "vintage", I guess *maybe* the Legacy+ might be considered vintage, but when I think "vintage API" I'm generally thinking like early 70s L.A. Heider kind of stuff. I've been fortunate to work a couple times on API of that lineage, and the sonics on those things are indeed quite different from modern (or even Legacy-era "vintage-ish") API. Well Benny my friend, the first thought was Duh! You take the same console architecture and make it smaller it’s going to be cleaner, make it bigger it’s going to have more of the console sound. Always wanted to take a trip to LA spend a day at Round Badges with his CAPI/ retro inspired 1608 and then some time with a stock 1608. My wife and my bank account won’t let me😁. It’s all about the Transformers and opamps. |
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Post by bgrotto on Mar 10, 2024 14:39:49 GMT -6
FWIW, the larger format APIs definitely impart more of a sound than their smaller counterparts. We had a 1608 at my studio for years, and briefly even had a Box when we were waiting for the second half of that 1608 to get delivered. While I've never had the pleasure of working on a Vision, these days, I worked pretty regularly on a Legacy+. The Legacy desks definitely have more of a 'sound' than my 1608 did. And the Box was relatively transparent to my ears. It's no real surprise considering the layout and signal path of these desks that the larger ones create a more distinctive tone. So I think a comparison between the Vision plugs and something like a Box would indeed be a bit misleading. As the question of "vintage", I guess *maybe* the Legacy+ might be considered vintage, but when I think "vintage API" I'm generally thinking like early 70s L.A. Heider kind of stuff. I've been fortunate to work a couple times on API of that lineage, and the sonics on those things are indeed quite different from modern (or even Legacy-era "vintage-ish") API. Well Benny my friend, the first thought was Duh! You take the same console architecture and make it smaller it’s going to be cleaner, make it bigger it’s going to have more of the console sound. Always wanted to take a trip to LA spend a day at Round Badges with his CAPI/ retro inspired 1608 and then some time with a stock 1608. My wife and my bank account won’t let me😁. It’s all about the Transformers and opamps. Ha well I’m not so sure “smaller” equals “cleaner”….ever used a BCM10? To my ears at least, that’s a heckuva lot vibier than say an 88r… |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Mar 10, 2024 16:03:45 GMT -6
Well Benny my friend, the first thought was Duh! You take the same console architecture and make it smaller it’s going to be cleaner, make it bigger it’s going to have more of the console sound. Always wanted to take a trip to LA spend a day at Round Badges with his CAPI/ retro inspired 1608 and then some time with a stock 1608. My wife and my bank account won’t let me😁. It’s all about the Transformers and opamps. Ha well I’m not so sure “smaller” equals “cleaner”….ever used a BCM10? To my ears at least, that’s a heckuva lot vibier than say an 88r… 😁 note the comment about same architecture 😎 It’s funny how many people have been shocked that my little 32 input DDA Forum is so much cleaner than a DCM or other large frame DDA or for that matter any of the Mid priced large format Brit consoles of the 90’s. All are pretty much the same architecture, just more features and inputs and busses. You will also note that the specs for most of those consoles is based on a single channel driving the bus, because you start bringing up channels and the specs start looking bad! |
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Post by nomatic on Mar 10, 2024 16:18:31 GMT -6
I love this plugin direct into my hardware SB mK 1...
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Post by Quint on May 6, 2024 10:56:41 GMT -6
I've finally gotten around to further investigating this plugin. I'm hearing a lot to like in the various sound clips I've listened to. I need to demo this, but this has the potential to supplant the UAD API stuff I use. Seems like a cool plugin.
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Post by ragan on May 6, 2024 11:08:08 GMT -6
I couldn’t really find the ‘special’ in this when I demo’d it. Not sure if I was using it in the way that’s supposed to bring that out though. It seemed like kind of an odd setup. I should give it some more time because some people seem to really dig it.
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Post by bgrotto on May 6, 2024 11:25:49 GMT -6
I couldn’t really find the ‘special’ in this when I demo’d it. Not sure if I was using it in the way that’s supposed to bring that out though. It seemed like kind of an odd setup. I should give it some more time because some people seem to really dig it. It’s lived on my drum buss since I got it. Love the tone, compression, and eq, and i especially love the way they interact. |
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Post by Quint on May 6, 2024 11:37:51 GMT -6
I couldn’t really find the ‘special’ in this when I demo’d it. Not sure if I was using it in the way that’s supposed to bring that out though. It seemed like kind of an odd setup. I should give it some more time because some people seem to really dig it. For what it's worth, and if you haven't read it, the GS thread for this plugin has a lot of good discussion and suggestions on how to use and gain stage this plugin. The gain staging seems to be particularly important, while also maybe being a little unorthodox, so I could see how someone might miss the "special" on a first demo. I'm going to be sure to go thru that thread again whenever I demo this, and try out the settings, as suggested. |
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Post by Quint on May 6, 2024 11:39:16 GMT -6
I couldn’t really find the ‘special’ in this when I demo’d it. Not sure if I was using it in the way that’s supposed to bring that out though. It seemed like kind of an odd setup. I should give it some more time because some people seem to really dig it. It’s lived on my drum buss since I got it. Love the tone, compression, and eq, and i especially love the way they interact. How do you feel this compares to hardware, generally speaking? Given your hardware setup, that seems like a pretty good endorsement of the Pulsar if you're using it on your drum buss. |
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Post by bgrotto on May 6, 2024 12:21:18 GMT -6
It’s lived on my drum buss since I got it. Love the tone, compression, and eq, and i especially love the way they interact. How do you feel this compares to hardware, generally speaking? Given your hardware setup, that seems like a pretty good endorsement of the Pulsar if you're using it on your drum buss. It’s definitely simplified my recalls. Haha. the compression and the subtle tone changes are what make me favor it. Theres a nice variety of dimensionality available from the different tone options, and I find they help postition the drums front/back position nicely. the compressor is simply awesome. I generally use the lower ratio one, and it’s tough to make it sound bad. Just dial attack for transient shape and release for groove and density, and bobs yer uncle. the linked input/output is a cool way to adjust overall sense of fidelity. I like that it doesn’t feed the compression so you can experiment more freely. And the bias control has a nice darkening / softening effect. Again great for front to back positioning. this all combines to make for quick and easy experimenting that would otherwise require a LOT of patching with hw. |
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Post by Quint on May 6, 2024 12:49:00 GMT -6
How do you feel this compares to hardware, generally speaking? Given your hardware setup, that seems like a pretty good endorsement of the Pulsar if you're using it on your drum buss. It’s definitely simplified my recalls. Haha. the compression and the subtle tone changes are what make me favor it. Theres a nice variety of dimensionality available from the different tone options, and I find they help postition the drums front/back position nicely. the compressor is simply awesome. I generally use the lower ratio one, and it’s tough to make it sound bad. Just dial attack for transient shape and release for groove and density, and bobs yer uncle. the linked input/output is a cool way to adjust overall sense of fidelity. I like that it doesn’t feed the compression so you can experiment more freely. And the bias control has a nice darkening / softening effect. Again great for front to back positioning. this all combines to make for quick and easy experimenting that would otherwise require a LOT of patching with hw. But is it a convenience/ease of use/practicality thing, or do you actually feel like it sounds just as good as hardware? Not even API hardware, specifically. Just hardware, in general, and all of the sort of tone, 3-D etc. that comes with it. Tough question, I realize. I'm just genuinely curious to hear your thoughts on the matter, as I would trust your opinion on this. Ultimately, I'm gonna test it out myself, but I don't have an API console to compare against, so I'm still curious to hear others opinions, and I believe you have worked on API vintage consoles before, and also just generally are well versed in hardware. |
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Post by bgrotto on May 6, 2024 12:56:20 GMT -6
It’s definitely simplified my recalls. Haha. the compression and the subtle tone changes are what make me favor it. Theres a nice variety of dimensionality available from the different tone options, and I find they help postition the drums front/back position nicely. the compressor is simply awesome. I generally use the lower ratio one, and it’s tough to make it sound bad. Just dial attack for transient shape and release for groove and density, and bobs yer uncle. the linked input/output is a cool way to adjust overall sense of fidelity. I like that it doesn’t feed the compression so you can experiment more freely. And the bias control has a nice darkening / softening effect. Again great for front to back positioning. this all combines to make for quick and easy experimenting that would otherwise require a LOT of patching with hw. But is it a convenience/ease of use/practicality thing, or do you actually feel like it sounds just as good as hardware? Not even API, specifically. Just hardware, in general, and all of the sort of tone, 3-D etc. that comes with it. Tough question, I realize. I'm just genuinely curious to hear your thoughts on the matter, as I would trust your opinion on this. Ultimately, I'm gonna test it out myself, but I don't have an API console to compare against, so I'm still curious to hear others opinions, and I believe you have worked on API vintage consoles before, and also just generally are well versed in hardware. Yep work regularly (and teach!) on legacy + desks, and used to own a 32ch 1608 at my own studio. Id say the plug sounds as good as hardware, yes. But to be honest, that answer would require a bit of an essay to fully explain so take it with a grain of salt! |
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