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Post by Shadowk on Feb 14, 2024 8:54:05 GMT -6
Interesting you say that about mixers. I was taught that you create a +32 to +40 audio circuit and set the clip at +18 to +24 on a professional console. But the difficulty in mixers is the signal to noise loss in the summing circuit.
There is a lot of tube sounds that are not represented in pro audio tube equipment. Other than people clinging to the past, those sounds only represent half of its color wheel.
Aye, although times move on. The SSL BS for example:
<-90 dBu
(<–116 dB with respect to +26 dBu)
< –82.5 dBu
(<–108.5 dB with respect to +26 dBu)
Not exactly anything to be concerned with regarding summed noise from a desk side, the funny bit is the ADC is calibrated to 0 /+24 and that's because you're right +18 / +24 are actually standards, European EBU is +18, SMPTE (US) is +24 so even if the desk has +27dBU headroom the actual LED meter points for calibration is aligned to full scale 0dBfs EBU / SMPTE. The board might not clip but the converters will  ..
I keep it relatively green till the actual mastering process in the DAW just to be on the safe side.
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 14, 2024 15:15:47 GMT -6
I’m not sure I buy the “everything sounds the same” because everyone has the same tools. There were basically 3-4 “daws” before computers. Neve, API, SSL, et al. Everybody used basses, guitars, drums, keys etc and no one was desperately trying to change it up with something different. And how much are people hearing the Neve “Summing” in Luna? I’d bet in blind tests no one could tell the difference in any of the saturation plugs.
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 14, 2024 17:24:48 GMT -6
We all hear things are own way, there are people I respect , you, wiz, Quinn: who speak positively about Luna. I think great , glad it’s working for you. I found I reacted against it: could just be me !  |
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Post by wiz on Feb 14, 2024 17:29:23 GMT -6
We all hear things are own way, there are people I respect , you, wiz, Quinn: who speak positively about Luna. I think great , glad it’s working for you. I found I reacted against it: could just be me ! Hey Kcat what was it that you didn't like? cheers Wiz |
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Post by the other mark williams on Feb 14, 2024 18:33:57 GMT -6
We all hear things are own way, there are people I respect , you, wiz, Quinn: who speak positively about Luna. I think great , glad it’s working for you. I found I reacted against it: could just be me ! Hey Kcat what was it that you didn't like? cheers Wiz What he didn’t like is that it was made by UAD. Haha! Just kidding, Matt. |
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Post by audiospecific on Feb 14, 2024 18:52:10 GMT -6
Interesting you say that about mixers. I was taught that you create a +32 to +40 audio circuit and set the clip at +18 to +24 on a professional console. But the difficulty in mixers is the signal to noise loss in the summing circuit.
There is a lot of tube sounds that are not represented in pro audio tube equipment. Other than people clinging to the past, those sounds only represent half of its color wheel.
Aye, although times move on. The SSL BS for example:
<-90 dBu
(<–116 dB with respect to +26 dBu)
< –82.5 dBu
(<–108.5 dB with respect to +26 dBu)
Not exactly anything to be concerned with regarding summed noise from a desk side, the funny bit is the ADC is calibrated to 0 /+24 and that's because you're right +18 / +24 are actually standards, European EBU is +18, SMPTE (US) is +24 so even if the desk has +27dBU headroom the actual LED meter points for calibration is aligned to full scale 0dBfs EBU / SMPTE. The board might not clip but the converters will ..
I keep it relatively green till the actual mastering process in the DAW just to be on the safe side.
A customer once wanted the clip to be equal on both. So I made several H pad attenuators to level match it. Worked like a champ and the customer was happy about it.
One thing I find interesting that audio A/D don't have a limiter like other industrial A/D converters. But something tells me the Dangerous one has that or some sort of Diamond buffer to amplify the signal that otherwise would be clipped and a fast agc limiter vca to attenuate it just under clipping.
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 14, 2024 19:20:25 GMT -6
We all hear things are own way, there are people I respect , you, wiz, Quinn: who speak positively about Luna. I think great , glad it’s working for you. I found I reacted against it: could just be me ! Hey Kcat what was it that you didn't like? cheers Wiz I thought things sound too homogenized. I was also going up the luna meaning curve and could just get stuff done faster in logic. I’ve demoed Luna 3-4 times, but it’s just never clicked for me. Your tracks sound great to me, so guess it’s just me ! |
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 14, 2024 19:22:54 GMT -6
Hey Kcat what was it that you didn't like? cheers Wiz What he didn’t like is that it was made by UAD. Haha! Just kidding, Matt. Ha ha good one, nah they released Luna before they screwed us with the new subscriber sweetheart Ultimate deal and gratuitous rationales: that was the last straw for me! |
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Post by notneeson on Feb 14, 2024 21:39:04 GMT -6
Hey Kcat what was it that you didn't like? cheers Wiz I thought things sound too homogenized. I was also going up the luna meaning curve and could just get stuff done faster in logic. I’ve demoed Luna 3-4 times, but it’s just never clicked for me. Your tracks sound great to me, so guess it’s just me ! Irrespective of Luna: one of the cool things a big API console or high end summing box can do is bring cohesion. Homogeneity isn’t the goal, obviously, but these ideas are related in a way. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 14, 2024 23:35:54 GMT -6
Fair enuff, but I didn’t mean homogenized in a good way. I’ve had all the UA channel strips and extensions, found I hardly used the channel strips and that the extensions were too much of a good thing, but the neve more so than the api.
Anyway, that was just how I felt, obviously there are lots of peeps using luna and who are pleased. i was just poking fun based on shadowk’s earlier comment.
These are all just tools and if they are working for you/others: that the point.
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Post by notneeson on Feb 15, 2024 0:03:59 GMT -6
Fair enuff, but I didn’t mean homogenized in a good way. I’ve had all the UA channel strips and extensions, found I hardly used the channel strips and that the extensions were too much of a good thing, but the neve more so than the api. Anyway, that was just how I felt, obviously there are lots of peeps using luna and who are pleased. i was just poking fun based on shadowk’s earlier comment. These are all just tools and if they are working for you/others: that the point. I’m right there with you. Just goes to show that this stuff is tricky to execute in the digital realm. |
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Post by ragan on Feb 15, 2024 0:10:18 GMT -6
I’m not sure I buy the “everything sounds the same” because everyone has the same tools. There were basically 3-4 “daws” before computers. Neve, API, SSL, et al. Everybody used basses, guitars, drums, keys etc and no one was desperately trying to change it up with something different. And how much are people hearing the Neve “Summing” in Luna? I’d bet in blind tests no one could tell the difference in any of the saturation plugs. I've had so many instances where someone makes something rad and I go dig up what magic gear they used and find out they used more or less the same gear I do. |
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Feb 15, 2024 0:29:16 GMT -6
This is kind of a fun thread though, in an unhinged kind of way. I need some counseling! But I want it mic'd up.
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 15, 2024 1:48:16 GMT -6
Testing, testing, 1,2,3:but, being unhinged is my one area of expertise: please, don’t take it away from me !! |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 15, 2024 13:28:53 GMT -6
I would need Luna to do everything I know how to do in Logic before I would consider switching. I use Logic's editing features regularly. Swipe comp a vocal, easy. Edit volume, easy. Flex pitch, ( on occasion) and other features I don't use yet.
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Post by Dan on Feb 15, 2024 20:26:32 GMT -6
Hey it’s Dan. I quit because I wasn’t in a good place, was wasting long hours posting to argue with people instead of completing work, and am still not in the best place but have restarted after getting more work. Deleting my account was the only way to finish my work. Sorry if I was a dick.
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Post by Dan on Feb 15, 2024 20:41:14 GMT -6
Hardware IME can be faster in a couple of scenario's, one you're a self tracker with at least a couple of years experience that knows exactly how to hit all the sweet spots of your equipment. At that stage nothing ever really needs to change, or you subscribe to the CLA methodology of HW set and forget which actually means you've got an assistant that makes everything sound like gold before it even gets mixed. When mixing became the art of polishing turds multiple times HW became the opposite of convenient.. Well, Deleted, it’s called getting what you paid for. If they want a bespoke mix, they can pay bespoke prices… I agree 100%. If they want to pay me for recording, which they never ever do, we can go to a place that has a lot of really modern and flexible stuff that will not destroy their sound by attacking or releasing too fast or too slow and great monitoring to get it closer to the finish line as it goes in or I can recommend they go somewhere cool. But they never ever do, almost never communicate with the pro guys I get ahold of by word of mouth, and if they have an advance nowadays, I think they want to pocket it and record it themselves or have their buddies do it because often most of these bands who don’t play live all the time cannot play their own songs and cannot afford to have someone else play them. If they end up with superior drummer samples being scooped and distorted to hell and back that’s how it goes. Most of them cannot even afford to use more interesting plugs so get drum levelered and the meat hammer for vocals that is Oxford dynamics. Then I will use Kotelnikov on various instrumental busses to fit their “performances” together dynamically by controlling both the peak the average volume at the same yoke and something cool on two bus and eq or distort it to The reference. It’s drastic but that’s what these most of these musicians, their budgets, and material that doesn’t inspire me deserve. When they can play it, yeah I often don’t need more than using whatever parametric eq I feel like into whatever half decent compressor I feel like and my two bus “compressor” might be u-he satin just to soften and glue things a tiny bit but I’ve only worked with few artists who were all there on the way in and what came off the board or interface just needed some basic eq and limiting. |
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Post by stratboy on Feb 15, 2024 21:01:52 GMT -6
Hey it’s Dan. I quit because I wasn’t in a good place, was wasting long hours posting to argue with people instead of completing work, and am still not in the best place but have restarted after getting more work. Deleting my account was the only way to finish my work. Sorry if I was a dick. Glad to have you back. Appreciate your knowledge and willingness to share. Self care takes a personal kind of courage. Please continue to take good care of yourself! |
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Post by geoff738 on Feb 15, 2024 21:10:02 GMT -6
Hey it’s Dan. I quit because I wasn’t in a good place, was wasting long hours posting to argue with people instead of completing work, and am still not in the best place but have restarted after getting more work. Deleting my account was the only way to finish my work. Sorry if I was a dick. Welcome back. Appreciate your insights. Take care of yourself. Cheers, Geoff |
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Post by skav on Feb 15, 2024 21:40:31 GMT -6
Hey it’s Dan. I quit because I wasn’t in a good place, was wasting long hours posting to argue with people instead of completing work, and am still not in the best place but have restarted after getting more work. Deleting my account was the only way to finish my work. Sorry if I was a dick. Welcome back! May you attain the the moderation you need. BTW interesting choice of name |
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 15, 2024 21:40:34 GMT -6
Hey Dan, welcome, sounds like that helped you move through something.
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Post by Dan on Feb 15, 2024 21:49:46 GMT -6
Hey it’s Dan. I quit because I wasn’t in a good place, was wasting long hours posting to argue with people instead of completing work, and am still not in the best place but have restarted after getting more work. Deleting my account was the only way to finish my work. Sorry if I was a dick. Welcome back! May you attain the the moderation you need. BTW interesting choice of name i like those old krks and b&ws. Still on the replacement krk v6s4 and they’re far from bulletproof… |
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Post by the other mark williams on Feb 15, 2024 23:10:37 GMT -6
Hey it’s Dan. I quit because I wasn’t in a good place, was wasting long hours posting to argue with people instead of completing work, and am still not in the best place but have restarted after getting more work. Deleting my account was the only way to finish my work. Sorry if I was a dick. Welcome back, Dan - hope you’re on the path to feeling better. 👍 |
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Post by drumsound on Feb 15, 2024 23:30:22 GMT -6
Hey Kcat what was it that you didn't like? cheers Wiz What he didn’t like is that it was made by UAD. Haha! Just kidding, Matt.  Hey it’s Dan. I quit because I wasn’t in a good place, was wasting long hours posting to argue with people instead of completing work, and am still not in the best place but have restarted after getting more work. Deleting my account was the only way to finish my work. Sorry if I was a dick. I'm glad you're taking care of yourself. Be Well! |
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Post by Dan on Feb 16, 2024 0:00:15 GMT -6
Hey it’s Dan. I quit because I wasn’t in a good place, was wasting long hours posting to argue with people instead of completing work, and am still not in the best place but have restarted after getting more work. Deleting my account was the only way to finish my work. Sorry if I was a dick. Welcome back, Dan - hope you’re on the path to feeling better. 👍 I think a good lesson is to take care of your body and accept you have no control over your at-will corporate employment and need to just accept what you have. Also the best work is done without thinking about it while doing it. Zen Mind, Simple Mind stuff. |
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