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Post by tonycamphd on Jul 13, 2014 19:14:14 GMT -6
Go Go Gobots! I probably should have posted this in the DIY section, but i wanted you guys to see emm now that i'm finally done!... well lol, i still have a few touches left to do on them, but they're 99% done, there's 3" of roxul rockboard 60 Tpinned to each other, with an air gap between the wood diffusor board and first piece, then 4" pyramid foam Tpinned to the roxul, to act anechoic like... It works amazing, i was yelling into it a few minutes ago, and it totally gobbles it up! I plan on using the absorbent side to catch the sonic blow by the mics so it minimally reflects back(maybe trick the room into sounding bigger than it is?) I think i'm pretty happy with these guys 8) left to do... weld wrenches on to adjuster nuts frame the gap on the diffusor side with 1" ground metal space the pyramids evenly, then use flat foam to bridge the gaps...done....with this at least 8)      
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 13, 2014 19:25:30 GMT -6
Very cool. Great job! So what would you use either side for?
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Post by tonycamphd on Jul 13, 2014 19:48:04 GMT -6
Thanx Johnkenn ,well, i'm a drummer primarily, i would have never bitten off a studio project of the size i'm chasing here, if drum sound wasn't the most important thing to me, so I'm doing everything i can to get this room(20'x16' tapering down to 13' with 8' ceilings)to be all it can be, i'm in the process of building a canopy out of welded aluminium, approximately 8x8' that rolls around the room, it's going to have about 9" of ultratouch insulation on top of it, with the 4" pyramids on the underside, this in effect should absorb the shit out of and "lift" the ceiling, derail early reflections from coming back into the mics and trashing the drum sound. The Gobots will be placed with the absorbent side toward the back of the appropriate drum mics in the most offensive areas, the theory is it will suck up the sonic blowby, and not allow it to hit the back of the mic on the return early reflections, then the gobots diffusion side should help to deflect sound waves making longer decays throughout the room, in turn making the room sound a little bigger. So far, all the shit i'm doing here seems to be working, the room is sounding bigger and better, if i can get a few more things dialed in, i should be good to go, i'm finally starting to get excited, i'm pushing 2 years on this project so far... mehhh. the gobots will be used for much more than just drums though, when i can, i'll do some acoustic guitar tracking, same tune, same mic placement, with and without GOBOTS! lol The diff is pretty dramatic. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 13, 2014 19:55:20 GMT -6
So you face the panels towards the ag's or the diffusers? What's the point of having them on both sides? Just to have the variety of being able to use either one?
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 13, 2014 19:58:37 GMT -6
Very impressive Tony!
Can't wait to see the canopy!
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Post by tonycamphd on Jul 13, 2014 20:07:32 GMT -6
So you face the panels towards the ag's or the diffusers? What's the point of having them on both sides? Just to have the variety of being able to use either one? Exactly, sometimes you want to open things up, sometimes tamp them down, it's subtle with a single unit, but both sides have an effect on the room regardless, especially in higher spl settings, think about a mic in super cardoid mode, when you speak behind it, you can still hear it pretty well, and that only gets more prominent with other polar patterns, there is no hiding from your room, the better it sounds, the better your recordings will sound, for drums, for everything, i'll even go as far as saying it's probably the most important and ignored part of this game we play. Acoustic guitar with a few of these, diffusion sides facing you, a couple 3 feet away, really starts to sparkle IME, have you tried tracking anything with yours yet? |
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Post by noah shain on Jul 13, 2014 22:36:23 GMT -6
Bad ass
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 13, 2014 22:48:23 GMT -6
So you face the panels towards the ag's or the diffusers? What's the point of having them on both sides? Just to have the variety of being able to use either one? Exactly, sometimes you want to open things up, sometimes tamp them down, it's subtle with a single unit, but both sides have an effect on the room regardless, especially in higher spl settings, think about a mic in super cardoid mode, when you speak behind it, you can still hear it pretty well, and that only gets more prominent with other polar patterns, there is no hiding from your room, the better it sounds, the better your recordings will sound, for drums, for everything, i'll even go as far as saying it's probably the most important and ignored part of this game we play. Acoustic guitar with a few of these, diffusion sides facing you, a couple 3 feet away, really starts to sparkle IME, have you tried tracking anything with yours yet? No - I haven't...been crazy busy tracking vocals and getting some mixes closed out. BUT - I have this Diffuser and a new Mic Rehab cap for my Miktek C5 ready to go...I need to get on it! Tomorrow morning! I've got to figure out a way to get that thing in front of my acoustic. I bet it would add some sparkle. I need to figure out a little rolling mount thing like yours. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Jul 13, 2014 23:10:21 GMT -6
Exactly, sometimes you want to open things up, sometimes tamp them down, it's subtle with a single unit, but both sides have an effect on the room regardless, especially in higher spl settings, think about a mic in super cardoid mode, when you speak behind it, you can still hear it pretty well, and that only gets more prominent with other polar patterns, there is no hiding from your room, the better it sounds, the better your recordings will sound, for drums, for everything, i'll even go as far as saying it's probably the most important and ignored part of this game we play. Acoustic guitar with a few of these, diffusion sides facing you, a couple 3 feet away, really starts to sparkle IME, have you tried tracking anything with yours yet? No - I haven't...been crazy busy tracking vocals and getting some mixes closed out. BUT - I have this Diffuser and a new Mic Rehab cap for my Miktek C5 ready to go...I need to get on it! Tomorrow morning! I've got to figure out a way to get that thing in front of my acoustic. I bet it would add some sparkle. I need to figure out a little rolling mount thing like yours. before i went all crazy with these, i used to just put em on a bar stool like the one id sit on to play, or anything that would holdem up and not contribute any bad reflections, you'll find something, i'm real curious to see what you come up with? |
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Post by odyssey76 on Jul 14, 2014 3:07:57 GMT -6
Go Go Gobots! I probably should have posted this in the DIY section, but i wanted you guys to see emm now that i'm finally done!... well lol, i still have a few touches left to do on them, but they're 99% done, there's 3" of roxul rockboard 60 Tpinned to each other, with an air gap between the wood diffusor board and first piece, then 4" pyramid foam Tpinned to the roxul, to act anechoic like... It works amazing, i was yelling into it a few minutes ago, and it totally gobbles it up! I plan on using the absorbent side to catch the sonic blow by the mics so it minimally reflects back(maybe trick the room into sounding bigger than it is?) I think i'm pretty happy with these guys 8) left to do... weld wrenches on to adjuster nuts frame the gap on the diffusor side with 1" ground metal space the pyramids evenly, then use flat foam to bridge the gaps...done....with this at least 8) Brilliant idea Tony. I'm really interested in hearing the a/b with the acoustic guitar. This is the type of DIY that I can handle (no soldering lol) and I agree that this part is often overlooked. Did you weld the frames yourself or did you find them somewhere…..I assume they are a custom job built by you? I'm also very curious to see that canopy you're talking about. Never crossed my mind to build a mobile ceiling absorber. Awesome job, I'm going to have to start thinking about more treatment.  |
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Post by gouge on Jul 14, 2014 3:27:31 GMT -6
They look awesome.
i use 4 custom built 8' high x 4' wide battened absorbers behind the kit plus a cloud over in our untreated blockwork room and we get such a big sound.
it is so worth doing what you are doing.
when we're not using them for drums they go in the iso room.
one thing i notice clearly with mine is they certainly make the room sound much bigger.
bigger surface areas work better as well.
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Post by henge on Jul 14, 2014 6:00:56 GMT -6
Those are so cool Tony!Can't wait to see the canopy.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 14, 2014 6:17:27 GMT -6
Whoa, that's some serious DIY Tony, well done !
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Jul 14, 2014 6:37:49 GMT -6
I like those a lot!.. I did one similar out of rock wool but it doesn't look nothing as good as these. Nice work.
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Post by svart on Jul 14, 2014 6:57:11 GMT -6
Lose the acoustic foam, it actually hurts your high end absorption from the rock wool behind like that. Also, the holes in the side become tuned absorbers like that. It might be best to just have one large oblong hole in the sides.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jul 14, 2014 7:12:41 GMT -6
They look rad man.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 14, 2014 7:37:19 GMT -6
Lose the acoustic foam, it actually hurts your high end absorption from the rock wool behind like that. Also, the holes in the side become tuned absorbers like that. It might be best to just have one large oblong hole in the sides. Without the dimensions can't be sure but I think from the picture there are enough and the holes are big enough that it won't end up as a tuned absorber. |
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Post by gouge on Jul 14, 2014 7:39:54 GMT -6
It is only a tuned absorber if it's a sealed box. I'm not so sure it is from the pics.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 14, 2014 7:41:59 GMT -6
We used to build a giant 4x2 ft diffusers with an absorber on the back with simple heavy duty castors, they were a pain to build but pretty darn effective!
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Post by gouge on Jul 14, 2014 7:58:05 GMT -6
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Post by gouge on Jul 14, 2014 8:23:00 GMT -6
Grate diffuser and 4" insulation over is also a mix that gets a lot of love
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Post by svart on Jul 14, 2014 8:25:10 GMT -6
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Post by tonycamphd on Jul 14, 2014 9:12:57 GMT -6
Thanx Fella's! yes odyssey76 , these were made out of square tube i'd gotten to build an EMT 140 plate clone, but i cut a few lengths too short 8/ I love to weld, it's totally fun man 8) hi svart , the foam is of the 4" pyramid variety, exposed flat surface(even roxul/OC703 reflects more than the pyramid)the pyramid foam is virtually useless on its own, but of great effect with all that roxul behind it, it's shape has an anechoic chamber like quality, they really grab a hold of the hi end and diffuse what doesn't get absorbed nicely, i thought it was a nice way of finishing 3 layers of roxul, a 1.5" air gap, and a wood block obstruction/reflector(back side of diffusor) that sends any frequencies that got through, back the other way to hit all those layers again, last night when i was yelling into it, it was creepy how great it absorbed, so i'm happy. Also, the side wood panes, i considered and researched what you said, they are primarily a frame(most guys just use 1x4 w/no cutout), with 90% of the material cut away, so they cannot be tuned(to any critical degree, every object has a resonance) as they're too open, and most importantly, they will only be seeing tangential stimulation as these are mobile, adjustable and directional devices that will be focused in the user desired direction. Hope that helps. also, those units u made look great man! |
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Post by svart on Jul 14, 2014 9:22:08 GMT -6
Thanx Fella's! yes odyssey76 , these were made out of square tube i'd gotten to build an EMT 140 plate clone, but i cut a few lengths too short 8/ I love to weld, it's totally fun man 8) hi svart , the foam is of the 4" wedge variety, exposed flat surface(even roxul/OC703 reflects more than the pyramid)the pyramid foam is virtually useless on its own, but of great effect with all that roxul behind it, it's shape has an anechoic chamber like quality, they really grab a hold of the hi end and diffus what doesn't get absorbed nicely, i thought it was a nice way of finishing 3 layers of roxul, a 1.5" air gap, and a wood block obstruction/reflector(back side of diffusor) that sends any frequencies that got through, back the other way to hit all those layers again, last night when i was yelling into it, it was creepy how great it absorbed, so i'm happy. Also, the side wood panes, i considered and researched what you said, they are primarily a frame(most guys just use 1x4 w/no cutout), with 90% of the material cut away, so they cannot be tuned(to any critical degree, every object has a resonance) as they're too open, and most importantly, they will only be seeing tangential stimulation as these are mobile, adjustable and directional devices that will be focused in the user desired direction. Hope that helps. also, those units u made look great man! I've been in and worked in a few professional anechoic chambers. Their pyramids are made of rock wool type material, not foam, and are feet deep, not inches! They have warnings on the doors and railings on all the walkways to hold onto because the effect is so strong you lose your balance since the ear has nothing to hear reflections from. Your brain uses more environmental sounds to locate your body in space and steady it than most people understand! Thanks, I simply figured out the area needed for a certain % of absorption for the range of frequencies related to a standard hole saw size. I then just mixed the hole sizes and figured out how many holes of each were needed to match the % of area required for the absorption percentage. At that point it was just drilling a bunch of holes through 1/4 veneer. It's just nailed to an already built broadband absorber I had. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Jul 14, 2014 9:34:22 GMT -6
Thanx Fella's! yes odyssey76 , these were made out of square tube i'd gotten to build an EMT 140 plate clone, but i cut a few lengths too short 8/ I love to weld, it's totally fun man 8) hi svart , the foam is of the 4" wedge variety, exposed flat surface(even roxul/OC703 reflects more than the pyramid)the pyramid foam is virtually useless on its own, but of great effect with all that roxul behind it, it's shape has an anechoic chamber like quality, they really grab a hold of the hi end and diffus what doesn't get absorbed nicely, i thought it was a nice way of finishing 3 layers of roxul, a 1.5" air gap, and a wood block obstruction/reflector(back side of diffusor) that sends any frequencies that got through, back the other way to hit all those layers again, last night when i was yelling into it, it was creepy how great it absorbed, so i'm happy. Also, the side wood panes, i considered and researched what you said, they are primarily a frame(most guys just use 1x4 w/no cutout), with 90% of the material cut away, so they cannot be tuned(to any critical degree, every object has a resonance) as they're too open, and most importantly, they will only be seeing tangential stimulation as these are mobile, adjustable and directional devices that will be focused in the user desired direction. Hope that helps. also, those units u made look great man! Thanks, I simply figured out the area needed for a certain % of absorption for the range of frequencies related to a standard hole saw size. I then just mixed the hole sizes and figured out how many holes of each were needed to match the % of area required for the absorption percentage. At that point it was just drilling a bunch of holes through 1/4 veneer. It's just nailed to an already built broadband absorber I had. Thats cool and true, but i'm not building an actual anechoic chamber, just a very good local absorber, the 4" pyramid foam IS very effective up high(there are plenty of spec sheets out there showing this), the pyramid shape reflects highs that would normally bounce back from a flat surface, farther into the rest of the absorber, you can hear the diff with/without the foam on these units, and in the end, hearing is believing, it also finishes these things off nicely imo |
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