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Post by Shadowk on Apr 28, 2024 8:48:53 GMT -6
Km84s also are great on vocals. I’ve used schoeps mk4s and 41s for vocals quite often Not many people use sdcs on vocals just because it looks strange in the studio but they sound great I do and I think when it comes to quality vs. cost they just can't be beaten. That being said they're not known for rock & roll obfuscation, if there's stuff in your voice you want to hide then dynamic's are far better at it, most need a decent amount of distance maybe a foot or so away at least which requires a good room that will cost more than any mic. Sure you can "deaden" the room but I think that just sounds weird as well (I did that at an old small location). They also require well trained vocal techniques, I'm always 2 inch or so to the side because even with pop & windshield they can be tetchy. Although, usually due to amazing off axis reponse it's not an issue.
I've noticed that the MC930 works better on vocals a lot of the time, they don't quite have the transient response or detail that a KM84 / 184 has. Schopes in my opinion are very hit or miss on vox due to how, well, incredible they are. What goes in comes out and many really aren't looking for that..
So, awesome mic's but not really suited to bedroom projects or certain singers IMO. When it's right though IME no LDC, dynamic or ribbon will sound better..
P.S I've always been interested in the Telefunken Ela M 260, it's a tube SDC and nobody I know of has one. It's on my want but don't need list..
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Post by hadaja on Apr 28, 2024 14:48:50 GMT -6
The MC930 mic is no slouch. It is clear and clean and noise free. I could live happily ever after with a pair of MC930
(of which I still own) and my fairy tale life would continue.
But I originally got on the MC930 bandwagon about a decade ago when the only real options was the the KM184 mic.
I had to record a church album and I had heard the KM184's and was not a fan of the top end. I was looking for a km84 type mic without the associated price tag.
I did search for another mic and tried a few but I ended up with the using the MC930's as O/H for drums and acoustic guitar.
we were very happy with the result.
Nowadays I have a little more disposable cash so the options are wider for me.
The Soyuz 013 are hot mics, dont think they sound like a km84 clone but they are have a great top end.
The Serrano 84 tried to emulate the km84 sound by same circuit and the same capsule technique. Did they succeed?
Well I think they are close enough to say that I liked them and have kept a pair on hand.
For something a little different I did buy the Samar MG20. And therer is something I quite like about that sound. So super queit, very focused, very good weight to the sound. I have not spent a super amount of time with it but I do enjoy that mic.
Back to the MC930 - We are extremely blessed to be in an era of time when there are so many options before us. I know I am going to sound like a broken record but when you come down to it all those mics will work very well and by the time you add it all in a mix the differences become way less noticeable.
I have also used the MC930 as a vocal mic for BGV's and it was quite a pleasant result for a female voices.
Its like a drinking a nice Expresso coffee. When you have done that so many times you can start to pick apart the flavour of the beans that were used. Like I think that was a Colombian Volcan bean, or I can taste the boldnes sof the BRazilian Buourbon bean or that Indian Elephant hills flavour is punching through. 99% of people wont have a clue and think that it tastes great. Only you and a few baristas/brewers will know.
How important that knowledge is to you will determine whether how important it will be to chase that holy grail of SDC sound.
BTW - I do want to try a pair of Scheops CMC6 mics next but the choice of capsules might be a worrying concern (I have to have them all).
Hope this helps.
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rdsyo
New Member
Posts: 7
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Post by rdsyo on Apr 29, 2024 12:54:30 GMT -6
The MC930 mic is no slouch. It is clear and clean and noise free. I could live happily ever after with a pair of MC930 (of which I still own) and my fairy tale life would continue. But I originally got on the MC930 bandwagon about a decade ago when the only real options was the the KM184 mic. I had to record a church album and I had heard the KM184's and was not a fan of the top end. I was looking for a km84 type mic without the associated price tag. I did search for another mic and tried a few but I ended up with the using the MC930's as O/H for drums and acoustic guitar. we were very happy with the result. Nowadays I have a little more disposable cash so the options are wider for me. The Soyuz 013 are hot mics, dont think they sound like a km84 clone but they are have a great top end. The Serrano 84 tried to emulate the km84 sound by same circuit and the same capsule technique. Did they succeed? Well I think they are close enough to say that I liked them and have kept a pair on hand. For something a little different I did buy the Samar MG20. And therer is something I quite like about that sound. So super queit, very focused, very good weight to the sound. I have not spent a super amount of time with it but I do enjoy that mic. Back to the MC930 - We are extremely blessed to be in an era of time when there are so many options before us. I know I am going to sound like a broken record but when you come down to it all those mics will work very well and by the time you add it all in a mix the differences become way less noticeable. I have also used the MC930 as a vocal mic for BGV's and it was quite a pleasant result for a female voices. Its like a drinking a nice Expresso coffee. When you have done that so many times you can start to pick apart the flavour of the beans that were used. Like I think that was a Colombian Volcan bean, or I can taste the boldnes sof the BRazilian Buourbon bean or that Indian Elephant hills flavour is punching through. 99% of people wont have a clue and think that it tastes great. Only you and a few baristas/brewers will know. How important that knowledge is to you will determine whether how important it will be to chase that holy grail of SDC sound. BTW - I do want to try a pair of Scheops CMC6 mics next but the choice of capsules might be a worrying concern (I have to have them all). Hope this helps. I’ve got a soyuz 013 on the way. Trying an MC930 if it doesn’t work out! |
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Post by johneppstein on Apr 30, 2024 10:34:36 GMT -6
Hello guys, I'm new in audio recording world same as on this forum, so if you feel that I'm saying stupid things - it is  Right now I'm learning fingerstlyle with percussion Just an example (please delete if not allowed) and having Sennheiser MK4 mic with RME Babyface pro fs interface. I saw a lot of reviews, videos, comparisons (also in this forum) and found 3 most interesting mics for me. 1) Soyuz 013 Fet (600$) 2) Neumann km184(670$) 3) Austrian Audio cc8 (mono 450$, pair 830$) Everyone tells that its better to use cheap pair, but in stereo, but as I'm new here I just want to buy something, which I will use forever or sell at by not loosing to much. Also I read that stereo could be overcomplicated for people without experience. And so far I'm tending to buy mic 1 or 2 as mono and in the future (if needed) just add another, but here another problem = matched/unmatched topic "shouting aaaa". Also I saw topics that its not necessary needed to use 2 same mics for stereo. I could probably take my MK4 and add i.e. one Souyz or Neumann and experiment with that. it would be really nice if you could correct my thoughts, which I learned for the past days and a lot of reading hours. and would be great if (based on YT example) tell me which mic would fit best here? Precise and bright neumann, warm and full Soyuz, or something between -> AA cc8? And in case stereo matched and same pair needed I would go for that 830$, but it's a bit to much for me. Otherwise I can buy one of these and add same one, for example in "xx months". P.S. Probably it is also very important to consider - I live in a Maisonette apartment type, which doesnt have doors, only ladder behind me. I treated my living room part as much as possible, bass traps, acoustic panels, carpet, big sofa etc and it works pretty well for music listening, but I think it will never be perfect for recordings, just unpossible to do by not spending thousands of $  Thank you for any advise!  If you want a mioc to use forever, save your pennies for a Neumann KM84, NOT a 184.The 184 has a presence peak that makes the mic less usable, you can always add highs to a 84, but you can't get the smoothnes of an 84 out of the 184. A KM84 may be expensive, but you will always be able to get your money back out, even turn a profit. My first one cost me $1,000. By the time i got the second they were up to $2,000. Beware of counterfeits. Get the insides inspected before you buy. |
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Post by johneppstein on Apr 30, 2024 10:45:31 GMT -6
Good choice, I'm a big fan of my 013's. They are very natural sounding, beautiful mics. I suggest for closer micing such as guitar, checking out the -10db pads they come with. For me, it was a big improvement. For drum OH's, I haven't tried using the pads yet. What is exactly the usage of -10pad? For example on my Audtio Interface - Phantom power - set 30db gain on mic. And if I equip -10db pad it should be more silent, so I will have to increate the gain i.e. from 30db to 40db or does it work differently? The pad is for when your source is too hot and you need to knock it down to avoid distortion. |
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Post by johneppstein on Apr 30, 2024 10:46:44 GMT -6
Ironically against usual convention I've started using LDC's for guitars and SDC's for vocals. You just can't beat a U67 on acoustic, don't even mind a 251.. I believe a lot of the Motown vocal stuff was done with Neumann SDCs. I seem to remember years ago the Bob Ohlson said that, maybe they were KM54 or 56... KM84s and (IIRC) 86s.The 86 is the side adress version. It contains 2 x 84 capsules and is multipattern. |
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Post by johneppstein on Apr 30, 2024 11:55:04 GMT -6
Alright, then I was thinking correctly, but still not completely understandable the difference between normal pad and lower gain and -10db pad, but higher gain. If see that db-lever is overshooting the red lines, then I just make the gain lower by those same 10db :thinking: Well, going to try to find some articles and read A PAD is exactly what it sounds like - it's a passive resisive network that reduces the signal level by a set (usually) amount so you don't overdrive the front end of your preamp. Your gain control is later in the circuit and cannot do anything about distorting the first stage of the preamp. A well designed pad should not affect the tone of the signal, just the volume level. |
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Post by thermos on Jul 2, 2024 8:04:05 GMT -6
The Soyuz 013 pad is so you don’t saturate the transformer too much! It makes a massive difference with transient detail.
Also, the newer batches are WAY less noisy. I use mine for ac guitar and overheads and have never noticed noise. They seemed to have improved these specs without telling anyone.
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Post by Ward on Jul 2, 2024 9:57:02 GMT -6
Good choice, I'm a big fan of my 013's. They are very natural sounding, beautiful mics. I suggest for closer micing such as guitar, checking out the -10db pads they come with. For me, it was a big improvement. For drum OH's, I haven't tried using the pads yet. What is exactly the usage of -10pad? For example on my Audtio Interface - Phantom power - set 30db gain on mic. And if I equip -10db pad it should be more silent, so I will have to increate the gain i.e. from 30db to 40db or does it work differently? As others, including johneppstein, have stated and imitated, the pad is essential more times than not. It may just be my imagination (highly doubtful) or eager wishful thinking (possible) but transients on acoustic instruments seem a lot better with the pad switched in. |
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Post by EmRR on Jul 2, 2024 12:27:00 GMT -6
Yup. It's hard to imagine that anyone confused about the pad has mic'd anything loud, like right on a snare drum. Found that their preamp is blowing up on the lowest gain setting. Many condensers now put out lowish line level signals at max, and most preamps can't deal with it without a pad somewhere. -20 is the technical correct minimum in a pad at the front of a preamp, after a mic, so there's one set of choices.
Yeah, they all make things sound different, do what you gotta do and move on. Pick a different preamp or mic if it bugs you that much....not addressing anyone here but it's a common GS pad complaint that makes my eyes roll all the way back in my head!
It's definitely not about "less mic transformer saturation", as a granular statement. Some SDC mics will overload within themselves, but most are in the 126-136dB range.
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