kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 7, 2024 12:04:16 GMT -6
Thx John .
It seems you could make 4-8 for not much money and as long as you assemble them correctly they will just work.
The absorptive/reflective design is sensible and relatively easy to do.
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Post by jcgriggs on Feb 8, 2024 8:49:09 GMT -6
Thx John . It seems you could make 4-8 for not much money and as long as you assemble them correctly they will just work. The absorptive/reflective design is sensible and relatively easy to do. Yes - the most expensive part is the preformed pipe insulation. The ASC design is much more complex - the metal shell is isolated from the rest of the construction with open cell foam on both sides - but this seems mostly to make it robust and attractive enough to be a commercial product. A DIY version can be simpler in these respects because it does not have to stand up to the rigors of shipping and the expectations of paying customers with regard to fit and finish and the ability to survive abuse.
Regards, John
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Post by guitfiddler on Feb 8, 2024 11:07:14 GMT -6
Melamine
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 8, 2024 17:42:31 GMT -6
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 8, 2024 18:02:01 GMT -6
These are 3 feet long, how high off floor should their top be?
Best to seal top and bottom ?
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 8, 2024 18:12:07 GMT -6
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Post by jcgriggs on Feb 9, 2024 9:49:15 GMT -6
If you can get the insulation unfaced (without the cloth or plastic covering) it will be better. I used Roxul Techtron 1200 pipe insulation and I am in Ottawa, Canada (which I believe is also your home town) but I'm afraid the place I purchased from does not sell to consumers (I was able to convince a salesperson who was very interested in my weird application for their product to sell to me on the side but that person has since left the company) If you have to buy it faced, I think you'd want to strip the facing off, at least for the non-diffusive side of the device(s).
The ends MUST be sealed if you want the same behaviour as the ASC product - it depends on having a trapped air mass inside the resistive shell to provide the extra bass absorption...
Regards, John
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 9, 2024 10:01:29 GMT -6
Yea, correct thx !
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 9, 2024 10:09:08 GMT -6
Yea, correct thx !
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 9, 2024 10:11:07 GMT -6
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Post by OtisGreying on Feb 9, 2024 16:24:14 GMT -6
This whole process continues being surprising, I put a 4’ x 2’ 6 inch deep OC703 panel on the side wall over an already existing 3 inch rockwool panel where I ran out of tubes to place there, this is facing directly at the right side of my vocal mic , things sound quite different yet again. I thought I’d reach the point of diminishing returns but the vocal again is sounding tighter in the lows to the high mids albeit a smidge darker.
I’m following the philosophy of making every point of absorption as deep as possible so any absorption of high end occurring is also complemented by adequate absorption of low end, to avoid a muffled sound. Sounds really good but im kinda hoping I’ll stop hearing such distinguishable differences here soon with every additional panel/tube etc, I’m hoping that would mean I’m about finished when that happens!
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 9, 2024 16:47:48 GMT -6
Are you measuring and keeping things balanced side to side, tk ensure stereo symmetry ?
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Post by nicksteinborn on Feb 9, 2024 19:53:18 GMT -6
These seem to be much smaller than what Eric is using. These look to be 6" diameter? Eric's look more like 12-18" across. Not that these aren't also potentially useful, I'd just assume they won't have the extension of the larger ones. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 9, 2024 20:15:57 GMT -6
He is just using larger tubes, they are not pipe insulation.
The pipe insulation, as they are rolled have significant density/absorption capacity and that acts as the sound enters and leaves the tube.
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Post by jcgriggs on Feb 10, 2024 10:03:37 GMT -6
That is the product, but I used different sizes - the stuff you posted has a 2 inch inner diameter (I.D.) and 1 inch thickness (for an outer diameter of 4 inches), which is too small to be very useful (IMHO). I think the smallest tubes I used were 9 inch I.D. and 1.5 inch thickness for a 12 inch outer diameter. I think the largest ones were 24 inch I.D. and 3 inch thickness (20 inch outer diameter) I mainly did half-rounds mounted against a wall in a smallish booth room (based on the ASC "Attack Wall" TM application)
Regards, John
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 10, 2024 10:13:12 GMT -6
Thx, it seems different sites have different materials: large half round sound and look good.
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Post by doubledog on Feb 10, 2024 10:28:52 GMT -6
I knew a guy once that was picking up pieces of this pipe insulation from a ReStore (That's where Habitat for Humanity resells donated supplies or even recovered/used supplies). Might be worth checking if you have one in your area.
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 10, 2024 13:08:55 GMT -6
Am I misunderstanding the thread, as it seems to me we are talking about two very different builds?
One with the roughly 6 inch diameter pipe insulation preferable without backing plus vapour barrier one side.
The other build with much wider pipes 10-12 inches in diameter?
Both perform best with sealed tops and bottoms.
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Post by domono on Feb 10, 2024 13:20:35 GMT -6
If you can get the insulation unfaced (without the cloth or plastic covering) it will be better. I used Roxul Techtron 1200 pipe insulation and I am in Ottawa, Canada (which I believe is also your home town) but I'm afraid the place I purchased from does not sell to consumers (I was able to convince a salesperson who was very interested in my weird application for their product to sell to me on the side but that person has since left the company) If you have to buy it faced, I think you'd want to strip the facing off, at least for the non-diffusive side of the device(s).
The ends MUST be sealed if you want the same behaviour as the ASC product - it depends on having a trapped air mass inside the resistive shell to provide the extra bass absorption...
Regards, John
So this stuff is faced, it would be a chore to get that covering off? I only now noticed the “ASJ Facing” part of the description thanks to your post. previously thought that was just the paper covering. Been looking at those for a while as Grainger seems to be the only place I’ve been able to find to get pipe insulation tubes down here in Houston. The tubes seem easier to come by up north which makes sense. Gotta look harder. www.grainger.com/product/OWENS-CORNING-Pipe-Insulation-Tube-4LFG5 |
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 10, 2024 15:14:51 GMT -6
Given the strength of lower bass notes, how does the facing prevent significant transmission?
Wouldn’t it act like a mild reflective/ diffusive capacity ?
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 10, 2024 15:24:12 GMT -6
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 10, 2024 15:28:41 GMT -6
from an internet search:
“FSK and ASJ are two common insulation facing terms you may have heard referenced within the insulation industry. Facings serve an array of purposes in air handling and piping applications, including helping your systems meet building codes, achieve quality energy efficiency, and control condensation.
This blog will discuss the difference between ASJ and FSK facings, to help you better understand the two facings used within the industrial insulation industry.
FSK vs ASJ Blog Post
FSK Facing:
FSK, or Foil Scrim Kraft is also a flame-retardant, vapor-barrier facing. The facing is most commonly utilized with duct wrap, duct board, and mechanical spin-glass boards on the outward-facing, exposed surfaces of HVAC ductwork.
This facing is also manufactured very similarly to ASJ facing, using several layers, which are all laminated together using flame-retardant adhesive.
ASJ Facing:
ASJ, or All Service Jacket is a common facing utilized in the industrial insulation industry. This facing is a flame-retardant vapor-barrier facing. It is manufactured using light-weight aluminum foil layered with a tri-directional fiberglass reinforcing scrim and then attached with high-intensity White Kraft paper.”
ASJ has been the trusted mechanical insulation solution for engineers and insulators for several years. It provides pipe insulations with several benefits, such as thermal- barrier, mold and mildew resistant and insulation protection.
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Post by rowmat on Feb 10, 2024 15:29:35 GMT -6
Given the strength of lower bass notes, how does the facing prevent significant transmission? Wouldn’t it act like a mild reflective/ diffusive capacity ? It does reflect/diffuse the higher frequencies. I used damp course barrier sheet for the facing which is commonly used under brickwork. Holes cut in the facing helps the transmission of air in and out of the tube. Two tubes shown here. The left tube is turned to show the fully absorbive side. The right shows the facing which covers half the tube’s radius. Rotate the tubes to expose the facing for a more live/open sound.  |
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 10, 2024 15:34:46 GMT -6
Exactly what I was thinking ( and about your pics), the facing protects the insulation and prevents fibre migration.
I method could be to cut holes all around or open all of back half and replace with vapour barrier for likely a negligible difference?
Cutting holes in rear facing half seems like a good start specially if you did measurements with tubes stock as baseline, then removed say a 1/4 of facing on front and remeasured, repeat as required ?
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Post by doubledog on Feb 10, 2024 15:37:27 GMT -6
Grainger seems to be the only place I’ve been able to find to get pipe insulation tubes down here in Houston. try these guys -- www.spi-co.com/locationsI always got my 703 from the one in Austin. Looks like they can get pipe wrap too. |
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