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Post by OtisGreying on Nov 21, 2023 2:03:58 GMT -6
Let me just preface this by saying I don't have much experience in great sounding recording rooms or mixing environments, if you have, you may find this thread a boring read.
Moving on,
This journey has brought me to the conclusion that if I were to do everything over again I would prioritize acoustics.
I bought 8 for tracking, and I put them in my home bedroom studio yesterday. 4 behind the vocal tracking position facing the microphone 2 behind the mic and 2 where they could fit elsewhere in the room (which is fairly small and very crowded). I've got 8 3-4 inch DIY rockwool absorption panels on the walls in this room prior but thats it for treatment. I've built my own tubetraps but they are not nearly as space friendly as they are much thicker, dont have stands so they are harder to fit in the room and fall over quite easily - they also dont have the treble diffusion which has been huge for my vocal recording I'm finding.
Anyway the results have been very surprising to see just how much they altered the sound of my Flea 47, it really feels like having a completely different microphone. I'm not a very experienced engineer but I can hear just how much quality from my mic I was missing before the traps were inside. I have a heiserman 47T too, which if my flea had sounded like it does now, I would have never bought. I still love the Hesierman 47T and will keep it but its made that much of a difference for me to where I finally hear what I've wanted to hear from my mic and now I couldn't be happier.
All in all the vocal sounds so much tighter, focused, less smeary in the high end, less smeary in the low end, less sibilant/harsh, yet cuts through the mix better. So its gotten me a vocal sound that is unachievable by any other means IME. A 40,000$ u67 just will not get you there. Only acoustics will get you that great vocal sound (assuming you're already working with a good mic). Which of course I didn't know, I thought 8 3-4 inch panels would be decent enough and since I didn't hear any flutter echo in my vocals I thought "the room is probably fine, the problem is I just dont know what magic pixie dust milkshake Manny Marroquin is drinking in the morning to get his vocal sounding perfect with only 2 plug-ins, but one day I'll know!" Or when I had a hunch the vocal could be clearer in the high-end yet it sounded too bright already? "It must be the Flea, okay I'll buy a heiserman." No. Wrong. How to mix vocals? Acoustics. Best plug-in for vocals? Owens Corning, Acoustics.
Anyway I'm happy to have them and will be purchasing 6 more to have 14 total for a very capable mobile tracking situation. ASC tube traps just happened to be the right fit for me, I don't doubt DIY's are great I have made my own that I will be using for my future mixing environment but for tracking I really enjoy these cause theyre super durable, look nice and with the treble diffusion side I don't get too dead of a sound. I had some money to spend and the build quality/treble diffusion/look-aesthetic of the ASC's appealed to me so I took the dive. I recommend them. And I recommend anyone looking into any piece of gear right now (if they're like me and are still chasing that sound in their head) to give a second glance to their recording environment and see if there's improvement to be had there first because the difference I'm hearing now is actually worth the money.
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 21, 2023 4:17:41 GMT -6
at $16-1700 usd for just two, they better be damn good : enjoy !
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 21, 2023 10:04:30 GMT -6
Let me just preface this by saying I don't have much experience in great sounding recording rooms or mixing environments, if you have, you may find this thread a boring read. Moving on,
This journey has brought me to the conclusion that if I were to do everything over again I would prioritize acoustics.
I bought 8 for tracking, and I put them in my home bedroom studio yesterday. 4 behind the vocal tracking position facing the microphone 2 behind the mic and 2 where they could fit elsewhere in the room (which is fairly small and very crowded). I've got 8 3-4 inch DIY rockwool absorption panels on the walls in this room prior but thats it for treatment. I've built my own tubetraps but they are not nearly as space friendly as they are much thicker, dont have stands so they are harder to fit in the room and fall over quite easily - they also dont have the treble diffusion which has been huge for my vocal recording I'm finding.
Anyway the results have been very surprising to see just how much they altered the sound of my Flea 47, it really feels like having a completely different microphone. I'm not a very experienced engineer but I can hear just how much quality from my mic I was missing before the traps were inside. I have a heiserman 47T too, which if my flea had sounded like it does now, I would have never bought. I still love the Hesierman 47T and will keep it but its made that much of a difference for me to where I finally hear what I've wanted to hear from my mic and now I couldn't be happier.
All in all the vocal sounds so much tighter, focused, less smeary in the high end, less smeary in the low end, less sibilant/harsh, yet cuts through the mix better. So its gotten me a vocal sound that is unachievable by any other means IME. A 40,000$ u67 just will not get you there. Only acoustics will get you that great vocal sound (assuming you're already working with a good mic). Which of course I didn't know, I thought 8 3-4 inch panels would be decent enough and since I didn't hear any flutter echo in my vocals I thought "the room is probably fine, the problem is I just dont know what magic pixie dust milkshake Manny Marroquin is drinking in the morning to get his vocal sounding perfect with only 2 plug-ins, but one day I'll know!" Or when I had a hunch the vocal could be clearer in the high-end yet it sounded too bright already? "It must be the Flea, okay I'll buy a heiserman." No. Wrong. How to mix vocals? Acoustics. Best plug-in for vocals? Owens Corning, Acoustics. Anyway I'm happy to have them and will be purchasing 6 more to have 14 total for a very capable mobile tracking situation. ASC tube traps just happened to be the right fit for me, I don't doubt DIY's are great I have made my own that I will be using for my future mixing environment but for tracking I really enjoy these cause theyre super durable, look nice and with the treble diffusion side I don't get too dead of a sound. I had some money to spend and the build quality/treble diffusion/look-aesthetic of the ASC's appealed to me so I took the dive. I recommend them. And I recommend anyone looking into any piece of gear right now (if they're like me and are still chasing that sound in their head) to give a second glance to their recording environment and see if there's improvement to be had there first because the difference I'm hearing now is actually worth the money.
Now add a Trinnov and really hear what it all sounds like! |
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Post by tkaitkai on Nov 21, 2023 15:00:55 GMT -6
Great to see some love for tube traps. I have 10 that I bought a few years back and they singlehandedly solved all of my issues with room acoustics. One of the best audio-related purchases I’ve ever made.
The convenience factor is huge, too. I have the ones with adjustable stands and you can literally set them up anywhere and have a studio environment in minutes.
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Post by notneeson on Nov 21, 2023 15:23:39 GMT -6
I was intrigued by the pipe insulation tubes that Eric Valentine uses, I think they're made from 703.
What if you actually filled them with rock wool? Could be a bass trap build with zero carpentry required? Not that I really have room for that format at my spot, but that doesn't stop my brain from scheming.
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 21, 2023 15:57:51 GMT -6
They would definitely absorb lower freq and more broadly and as Eric demonstrated could be tuned as well.
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Post by OtisGreying on Nov 21, 2023 16:11:32 GMT -6
I was intrigued by the pipe insulation tubes that Eric Valentine uses, I think they're made from 703. What if you actually filled them with rock wool? Could be a bass trap build with zero carpentry required? Not that I really have room for that format at my spot, but that doesn't stop my brain from scheming. EV said they are just as useful straight out of the box as when you try and do other things to them. So I don’t think you even have to do that much work. You can leave the paper on if you want, just cover them with some fabric and you’re good to go. I did that with my DIY’s but I took the paper off and I wish I didn’t cause it could have acted as a treble diffuser, which I really think is critical for tracking as I’m finding with the ASC traps. I just don’t have the space for my DIY’s in my room and the ASCs are a lot easier to place when extended on stands, and probably safer health wise for a bedroom given they’re made professionally and there’s no 703 particles flying around. |
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Post by OtisGreying on Nov 21, 2023 16:13:02 GMT -6
at $16-1700 usd for just two, they better be damn good : enjoy ! Yeah kcatt I know they’re pretty expensive, I got mine for 500$ each which was still more then I wanted to pay but I think it’s worth the time saved on chasing my tail mix wise, especially for vocals. Vocals feel so much closer to the final product for me right now, hopefully it’s not just honeymoon |
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 21, 2023 16:22:49 GMT -6
I think they are great product and agree with your main point, but 5-10 would be a big chunk of change!
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Post by kelk on Nov 21, 2023 17:15:36 GMT -6
Does anyone have any experience with ASC alternatives in Europe? Their tubetraps have been on the top of my list for a long while but given their price, and the added boat shipping and import taxes, I've never been able to take the plunge.
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Post by winetree on Nov 21, 2023 21:22:34 GMT -6
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Post by notneeson on Nov 21, 2023 22:16:34 GMT -6
I was intrigued by the pipe insulation tubes that Eric Valentine uses, I think they're made from 703. What if you actually filled them with rock wool? Could be a bass trap build with zero carpentry required? Not that I really have room for that format at my spot, but that doesn't stop my brain from scheming. EV said they are just as useful straight out of the box as when you try and do other things to them. So I don’t think you even have to do that much work. You can leave the paper on if you want, just cover them with some fabric and you’re good to go. I did that with my DIY’s but I took the paper off and I wish I didn’t cause it could have acted as a treble diffuser, which I really think is critical for tracking as I’m finding with the ASC traps. I just don’t have the space for my DIY’s in my room and the ASCs are a lot easier to place when extended on stands, and probably safer health wise for a bedroom given they’re made professionally and there’s no 703 particles flying around. He did say that, but they should theoretically reach lower if they’re filled with the right material, from what I understand. |
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Post by tasteliketape on Nov 21, 2023 22:51:12 GMT -6
I just built half round traps filled with rock wool. Used 12” diameter cement forms cut in half length wise . Sealed them in a old bed sheet to keep particles in , then covered with Burlap
They did a great job of controlling bass in my small room .
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 22, 2023 8:12:33 GMT -6
Were the holes tuned or just random! Did you test 100% filled vs not or why the empty space inside? |
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Post by subspace on Nov 22, 2023 8:53:48 GMT -6
While I framed in a control room I had a giant stack of R13 rolls piled in the back of the room that would be used to fill in the framing. I arranged them in a semi-circle behind where I was experimenting with speaker placement and it sounded amazing in the listening position. Finished out the room and it didn't really compare to the open space with that wall of R13 rolls behind it.
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Post by bikescene on Nov 22, 2023 18:11:43 GMT -6
I was intrigued by the pipe insulation tubes that Eric Valentine uses, I think they're made from 703. What if you actually filled them with rock wool? Could be a bass trap build with zero carpentry required? Not that I really have room for that format at my spot, but that doesn't stop my brain from scheming. I made some smaller tube traps this past summer. The largest diameter I could source online was 10” inner diameter with 1.5” wall thickness, not the huge ones that Eric found. I filled them with pink fiberglass and glued some wooden craft rounds. I put some up in my basement space to start up a bootleg attack wall, and thought it made a difference. Despite the relatively small diameters Of insulation I used, I did get some improvement in the 100-200Hz range. Here’s a post where I put up some REW measurements: realgearonline.com/post/331563And here’s a picture of them set up.  |
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Post by jaba on Nov 22, 2023 18:34:44 GMT -6
Pardon my ignorance on this, but if stack some Owens-Corning pipe insulators in a corner (I have a couple too close to a door to have triangle treatment) that has 2" fiberglass insulation with a gap for a 1" to 1.5" pipe, would that be noticeably better than nothing?
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 22, 2023 19:27:14 GMT -6
It would absorb more mid to high. You could always use REW to do a before and after sweep too.
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Post by winetree on Nov 22, 2023 19:38:09 GMT -6
Were the holes tuned or just random! Did you test 100% filled vs not or why the empty space inside? These were modeled after the ASC INTER-THERMAL Tube Traps. (look-up ) Holes were drilled in an alternating pattern. NO, Any Real Tube Traps were never completely filled in the center. |
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Post by Tbone81 on Nov 22, 2023 19:42:58 GMT -6
Have any of you guys seen or tried the new turbo tube traps from GIK? I’m thinking of buying some and using them as monitor stands.
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Post by winetree on Nov 22, 2023 19:47:25 GMT -6
There's 50 Tube Traps in this Control Room. Upper corners 9 inch rounds. Ceiling half rounds, and front Attack Wall with dual subs. Turning a live tile area into a well balanced listening area.  |
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Post by rowmat on Nov 22, 2023 20:01:58 GMT -6
I built some too as the cost of shipping them to Australia on top of the actual traps was off the planet. It was a ton of work but they definitely helped. I used rock wool sandwiched between inner and outer wire mesh tubes. I used some construction damp-proof course plastic to create a reflective side.   |
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Post by bossanova on Nov 24, 2023 22:48:12 GMT -6
Let me just preface this by saying I don't have much experience in great sounding recording rooms or mixing environments, if you have, you may find this thread a boring read.
Moving on,
This journey has brought me to the conclusion that if I were to do everything over again I would prioritize acoustics.
I bought 8 for tracking, and I put them in my home bedroom studio yesterday. 4 behind the vocal tracking position facing the microphone 2 behind the mic and 2 where they could fit elsewhere in the room (which is fairly small and very crowded). I've got 8 3-4 inch DIY rockwool absorption panels on the walls in this room prior but thats it for treatment. I've built my own tubetraps but they are not nearly as space friendly as they are much thicker, dont have stands so they are harder to fit in the room and fall over quite easily - they also dont have the treble diffusion which has been huge for my vocal recording I'm finding.
Anyway the results have been very surprising to see just how much they altered the sound of my Flea 47, it really feels like having a completely different microphone. I'm not a very experienced engineer but I can hear just how much quality from my mic I was missing before the traps were inside. I have a heiserman 47T too, which if my flea had sounded like it does now, I would have never bought. I still love the Hesierman 47T and will keep it but its made that much of a difference for me to where I finally hear what I've wanted to hear from my mic and now I couldn't be happier.
All in all the vocal sounds so much tighter, focused, less smeary in the high end, less smeary in the low end, less sibilant/harsh, yet cuts through the mix better. So its gotten me a vocal sound that is unachievable by any other means IME. A 40,000$ u67 just will not get you there. Only acoustics will get you that great vocal sound (assuming you're already working with a good mic). Which of course I didn't know, I thought 8 3-4 inch panels would be decent enough and since I didn't hear any flutter echo in my vocals I thought "the room is probably fine, the problem is I just dont know what magic pixie dust milkshake Manny Marroquin is drinking in the morning to get his vocal sounding perfect with only 2 plug-ins, but one day I'll know!" Or when I had a hunch the vocal could be clearer in the high-end yet it sounded too bright already? "It must be the Flea, okay I'll buy a heiserman." No. Wrong. How to mix vocals? Acoustics. Best plug-in for vocals? Owens Corning, Acoustics.
Anyway I'm happy to have them and will be purchasing 6 more to have 14 total for a very capable mobile tracking situation. ASC tube traps just happened to be the right fit for me, I don't doubt DIY's are great I have made my own that I will be using for my future mixing environment but for tracking I really enjoy these cause theyre super durable, look nice and with the treble diffusion side I don't get too dead of a sound. I had some money to spend and the build quality/treble diffusion/look-aesthetic of the ASC's appealed to me so I took the dive. I recommend them. And I recommend anyone looking into any piece of gear right now (if they're like me and are still chasing that sound in their head) to give a second glance to their recording environment and see if there's improvement to be had there first because the difference I'm hearing now is actually worth the money.
This has really harshed my Black Friday plug-in buzz. Not the worst thing, mind you. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 25, 2023 1:33:33 GMT -6
I built some too as the cost of shipping them to Australia on top of the actual traps was off the planet. It was a ton of work but they definitely helped. I used rock wool sandwiched between inner and outer wire mesh tubes. I used some construction damp-proof course plastic to create a reflective side. View AttachmentView AttachmentDid you make or purchase the tubes ? |
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Post by rowmat on Nov 25, 2023 12:54:12 GMT -6
I built some too as the cost of shipping them to Australia on top of the actual traps was off the planet. It was a ton of work but they definitely helped. I used rock wool sandwiched between inner and outer wire mesh tubes. I used some construction damp-proof course plastic to create a reflective side. View AttachmentView AttachmentDid you make or purchase the tubes ? I built them entirely from scratch using galvanised wire mesh which I cut and formed (rolled) into two tubes per trap. A smaller diameter inner mesh tube and a larger diameter for the outer. These held the rock wool insulation batts sandwiched in between the mesh tubes. I used wire clips to join the mesh along the edges and used round plywood end caps and stapled the mesh to the end caps. I made two sizes. The smaller trap is just over one metre tall (around 40”) and approximately 10” in diameter and the larger about 80” tall and 16” in diameter. The larger trap required four one metre (40”) mesh tubes with each inner and outer pair joined end to end to make a two metre (80”) tall tube. The roll of wire mesh was actually 1200mm tall (48”) but I had to cut it down to about 40” otherwise the larger traps would have been too tall once the wire tubes were joined end to end. They’re very lightweight. |
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