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Post by tkaitkai on Nov 29, 2023 20:30:33 GMT -6
Thomann also have a super cheap tube trap design: www.thomannmusic.com/t.akustik_tube_trap_bk.htmIf you poke around old threads on GS and PSW, Art Noxon (founder of ASC) would occasionally show up and dump tons of info about how ASC tube traps work. Lot of very high-level stuff that goes way over my head, but he seemed pretty transparent about how they’re designed, and I think he even provided a bunch of tips on how to do a DIY build. I definitely wanted to try DIY at one point, but eventually said fuck it and just went with ASC. They state they are made of foam so probably not nearly as effective. Yeah probably not. The price isn’t bad though. Might be an OK option if you’re in Europe instead of shipping ASC traps. IIRC, I think there’s actually some scientific merit to the idea that the tube shape itself confers unique acoustic benefits — maybe these would be a better choice than regular foam panels. I would definitely want to run some thorough tests before committing to these, though. |
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Post by ericn on Nov 29, 2023 21:23:59 GMT -6
They state they are made of foam so probably not nearly as effective. Yeah probably not. The price isn’t bad though. Might be an OK option if you’re in Europe instead of shipping ASC traps. IIRC, I think there’s actually some scientific merit to the idea that the tube shape itself confers unique acoustic benefits — maybe these would be a better choice than regular foam panels. I would definitely want to run some thorough tests before committing to these, though. Not an acoustician by any means but one pretty obvious advantage, within the plane that it is circular absorption characteristics would be pretty much the same no matter what the angle or direction of the sound wave. A structural element wrapped in Acustical insulation with say a chicken wire tub in acoustically transparent fabric should function pretty well. I have to admit I’m suddenly wondering what a hanging ball shaped absorber would do😁 |
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Post by Quint on Nov 30, 2023 7:15:05 GMT -6
Yeah probably not. The price isn’t bad though. Might be an OK option if you’re in Europe instead of shipping ASC traps. IIRC, I think there’s actually some scientific merit to the idea that the tube shape itself confers unique acoustic benefits — maybe these would be a better choice than regular foam panels. I would definitely want to run some thorough tests before committing to these, though. Not an acoustician by any means but one pretty obvious advantage, within the plane that it is circular absorption characteristics would be pretty much the same no matter what the angle or direction of the sound wave. A structural element wrapped in Acustical insulation with say a chicken wire tub in acoustically transparent fabric should function pretty well. I have to admit I’m suddenly wondering what a hanging ball shaped absorber would do😁 They weren't balls, but I seem to remember a studio that Jeff Hedback designed for someone in the rural Midwest a few years back. Maybe Iowa? There was a build diary for it on GS. It had permanently hanging tube traps from the ceiling, kind of used as broadband absorbers/diffusers. |
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Post by Tbone81 on Dec 10, 2023 20:57:28 GMT -6
Well, I just pulled the trigger on 4 tube traps from GIK. Today is the last day of their 15% off sale. I'm planning on using them as speakers stands. I'm very interested to see how they work out. I have a peak around 200-300hz in my room that I need to even out. Hoping these will help.
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Post by notneeson on Dec 10, 2023 21:12:59 GMT -6
Well, I just pulled the trigger on 4 tube traps from GIK. Today is the last day of their 15% off sale. I'm planning on using them as speakers stands. I'm very interested to see how they work out. I have a peak around 200-300hz in my room that I need to even out. Hoping these will help. Report back, please! |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Dec 10, 2023 22:46:04 GMT -6
Well, I just pulled the trigger on 4 tube traps from GIK. Today is the last day of their 15% off sale. I'm planning on using them as speakers stands. I'm very interested to see how they work out. I have a peak around 200-300hz in my room that I need to even out. Hoping these will help. On the website they have an interesting suggestion to simulate flush mounting speakers. Bascially sandwiching the speaker between two tube traps. Kind of an interesting idea. |
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Post by drumsound on Dec 11, 2023 3:58:18 GMT -6
I wonder if tube traps would be effective hanging from a ceiling...
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Post by tkaitkai on Dec 11, 2023 4:11:33 GMT -6
I wonder if tube traps would be effective hanging from a ceiling... I have one of mine sitting on top of some rockwool panels that I have propped up against the wall, basically fits perfectly in the wall/ceiling corner. I swear it helps with bass buildup in that spot. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 11, 2023 4:25:55 GMT -6
Will measure and confirm !  |
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Post by jcgriggs on Dec 11, 2023 10:31:25 GMT -6
I wonder if tube traps would be effective hanging from a ceiling... IIUC, Tube Traps (TM) are based on a concept called "functional absorbers" developed by Harry Olson at Bell Labs - one of the applications in Olson's papers has groups of the devices hanging from a ceiling with the long dimension horizontal. I believe Olson's devices were rectangular, not tubes but used the same concept of a trapped volume of air in a resistive container to mimic an RC filter circuit.
- John
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Post by Quint on Dec 11, 2023 10:46:34 GMT -6
I wonder if tube traps would be effective hanging from a ceiling... Jeff Hedback has done it. With the long dimension hanging vertically. |
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Post by bossanova on Dec 11, 2023 11:53:54 GMT -6
Have people had success with Hemp insulation? Thinking mainly for bass traps but also panels and otherwise.
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Post by notneeson on Dec 11, 2023 12:07:43 GMT -6
Have people had success with Hemp insulation? Thinking mainly for bass traps but also panels and otherwise. Effectiveness is largely a function of gas flow resistance and depth, so it would depend on how deep or a panel you are looking to build. Deeper typically goes lower. Not sure where hemp fits. I went with rockwool. |
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Post by drbill on Dec 11, 2023 12:12:45 GMT -6
Hedback suggested Denim insulation for my diffusor / bass traps.
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Post by bossanova on Dec 11, 2023 12:24:38 GMT -6
Hedback suggested Denim insulation for my diffusor / bass traps. Good to know! I looked a couple years ago and supplies of denim insulation weren’t great in the states, but it looks like at least a couple place have it ready to ship. |
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Post by bossanova on Dec 11, 2023 12:56:50 GMT -6
Hedback suggested Denim insulation for my diffusor / bass traps. Did you end up going with the denim traps and if so how did they work out? I'm also remembering that results with denim are supposed to be less effective at thicknesses over 4 inches/below 100hz, but that's mostly from debates at the purple place. |
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Post by Quint on Dec 11, 2023 13:08:53 GMT -6
I'm not sure on the gas flow resistivity (GFR) of denim, but for thick bass traps (>12") you need stuff that has a pretty low GFR. Like down in the 2,000 to 5,000 rayls range. Stuff like pink fluffy insulation you might find in your attic is the sort of stuff I'm talking about. I used Johns Manville 10.5" thick batts (I think they were R19) on a 24" deep bass trap I built behind my monitors. That insulation has a GFR of down around 2,000 to 3,000 rayls. For anyone that hasn't seen this, it's a really useful tool for figuring out optimum materials for a given porous absorber use case. www.acousticmodelling.com/multi.phpYou can compare up to four multi (or single) layered porous absorber scenarios at once, and play with the numbers to see what would work best for your specific use case. |
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Post by ericn on Dec 11, 2023 13:09:30 GMT -6
Denim and Hemp are both as good or better than fiberglass, the reason fiberglass is so prevalent is you can find sources locally almost everywhere. Add in how many other industries use it, you can get it cheap almost everywhere and not worry about bales of insulation disappearing from your front porch.
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Post by Quint on Dec 11, 2023 13:12:44 GMT -6
Denim and Hemp are both as good or better than fiberglass, the reason fiberglass is so prevalent is you can find sources locally almost everywhere. Add in how many other industries use it, you can get it cheap almost everywhere and not worry about bales of insulation disappearing from your front porch. Yeah, I think I've heard the denim is fairly expensive. |
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Post by drbill on Dec 11, 2023 16:09:11 GMT -6
Hedback suggested Denim insulation for my diffusor / bass traps. Good to know! I looked a couple years ago and supplies of denim insulation weren’t great in the states, but it looks like at least a couple place have it ready to ship. I'm trying to remember, but I'm pretty sure we procured it from Lowes. Hedback suggested Denim insulation for my diffusor / bass traps. Did you end up going with the denim traps and if so how did they work out? I'm also remembering that results with denim are supposed to be less effective at thicknesses over 4 inches/below 100hz, but that's mostly from debates at the purple place. My side panels are absorbtion / diffusion, and they work great. Fantastic. They are right about 4" think with hardwood diffusion on the surface, alternated by fabric over the absorption. The surface wood is radiused per Jeff's specs, and the spacing of the diffusion wood is spec'd very scientifically by Jeff. Everything behind is denim absorption. I;ll see if I can get a pic. Found one. This is the smaller one, over my Left side shoulder from mix position.  |
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Post by drumsound on Dec 11, 2023 18:07:34 GMT -6
I wonder if tube traps would be effective hanging from a ceiling... Jeff Hedback has done it. With the long dimension hanging vertically. Yeah, I was thinking several of them is a staggered setup hanging from wire. |
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Post by Quint on Dec 11, 2023 18:20:30 GMT -6
Jeff Hedback has done it. With the long dimension hanging vertically. Yeah, I was thinking several of them is a staggered setup hanging from wire. I went looking for the thread on GS where the project build diary discussed Hedback's design and use of those tube traps hanging from the ceiling. It's probably been the better part of a decade since that thread concluded. I can't find it now though. I know it was a studio built in a metal barn kind of building, and it was out in a rural area. I want to say it was in the Midwest somewhere. |
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Post by drumsound on Dec 11, 2023 18:23:14 GMT -6
Yeah, I was thinking several of them is a staggered setup hanging from wire. I went looking for the thread on GS where the project build diary discussed Hedback's design and use of those tube traps hanging from the ceiling. It's probably been the better part of a decade since that thread concluded. I can't find it now though. I know it was a studio built in a metal barn kind of building, and it was out in a rural area. I want to say it was in the Midwest somewhere. Hmmmm... I wonder if it's near me in Central IL. |
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Post by ericn on Dec 11, 2023 19:24:13 GMT -6
I went looking for the thread on GS where the project build diary discussed Hedback's design and use of those tube traps hanging from the ceiling. It's probably been the better part of a decade since that thread concluded. I can't find it now though. I know it was a studio built in a metal barn kind of building, and it was out in a rural area. I want to say it was in the Midwest somewhere. Hmmmm... I wonder if it's near me in Central IL. It’s either near you or me😁 |
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Post by the other mark williams on Dec 11, 2023 23:22:43 GMT -6
Hmmmm... I wonder if it's near me in Central IL. It’s either near you or me😁 Or it could be deep in Ohio… |
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