kbb
Junior Member
Posts: 82
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Post by kbb on Oct 18, 2023 22:59:46 GMT -6
Hi there, I'm looking at a used mic, and while it sounds great, I'm just curious as to just how dirty this capsule is? The rear side is flawless. I'm not trying to be too OCD, but it's not cheap and so I'm just trying to do my due diligence. Honestly, I don't know what a "dirty" capsule really looks like, and trying my best to avoid bying something that's already halfway to needing service. I speculate that neumann capsule cleaning services isn't that painfully expensive (I think I read their service rates are $120/hr, and a number of posts have inferred that cleaning is roughly an hour job for a basic cleaning (only)). Thanks and curious for thoughts! ![]()  |
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Post by paulcheeba on Oct 19, 2023 0:00:17 GMT -6
It’s not too bad. If you’re worried put a dash of pure alcohol in some distilled water and clean it very gently with a paint brush.
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Ari
Full Member
Posts: 35
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Post by Ari on Oct 19, 2023 1:10:52 GMT -6
this is nothing. used for a few years dirty. Some spit salt and ambient dust. It wouldn't affect the sound of the capsule, and it's definitely not bad enough to consider cleaning, which should be a last resort for capsules that are caked in salt to the point of it weighing down the diaphragm or shorting. Believe me, you don't want to know what capsules look like after even a few years of heavy use, let alone 20+ or in studios that used to allow smoking. I have capsules whose backplates have to be permanently stored in plastic bags because the smell cannot be removed, or where the gold isn't even reflective anymore. Many of them still work! Some of them even still sound fine. Some of them were destroyed by the foam pads they used to sit over. This is genuinely normal and if you clean it, it will be right back here before you know it. It's better to genuinely try not to worry about it and wipe this off your list of concerns for a while. You can rotate the capsule to keep more from accumulating if you plan to be more careful with it.
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Post by frans on Oct 19, 2023 2:24:27 GMT -6
I'd put it alongside something new and would check if it makes a difference.
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Post by thehightenor on Oct 19, 2023 2:50:23 GMT -6
…. it probably sounds better because of it’s use!
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Post by timcampbell on Oct 19, 2023 6:52:38 GMT -6
This looks fine, like any capsule that has seen normal use. PLEASE don't try to clean it. No one without experience should ever try cleaning an expensive capsule. This is an unglued membrane with a hole in the center. The chance of getting liquid behind the membrane or changing the membrane tension is too great.
If it ain't broke don't fix it.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,099 
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Post by ericn on Oct 19, 2023 6:55:17 GMT -6
This looks fine, like any capsule that has seen normal use. PLEASE don't try to clean it. No one without experience should ever try cleaning an expensive capsule. This is an unglued membrane with a hole in the center. The chance of getting liquid behind the membrane or changing the membrane tension is too great This Tim way of telling you, I’m to damn busy I really don’t need the extra work of fixing your capsule 😁 |
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Post by timcampbell on Oct 19, 2023 6:56:45 GMT -6
hahahahaha
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,099
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Post by ericn on Oct 19, 2023 6:59:29 GMT -6
[br Hey there are guys who wouldn’t comment thinking “ yeah keep me busy”😁 |
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Post by Ward on Oct 19, 2023 7:28:58 GMT -6
Just leave it alone! Get an expert to clean in another 10 years from now.
And until then, keep it covered when it isn't in use.
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Post by crillemannen on Oct 19, 2023 7:31:27 GMT -6
My vintage u87 capsule is pretty worn, someone over-cleaned one side but it sounds amazing. Best u87 I've heard so if it's not broken don't fix it.
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kbb
Junior Member
Posts: 82
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Post by kbb on Oct 19, 2023 12:29:04 GMT -6
Thanks to EVERYBODY so much for chiming in, I'm not going to worry about it for now. I'm a little tempted to just return it and buy a new one, but it sounds like some wear/contamination is inevitable, so may just as well save the money for future cleaning down the road. Also, I remember reading a post by Klaus that some U87ai capsules were a little bass starved because of inaccurate tensioning...this may have been in the past, though. Still, since this is the probably, to me, the best sounding U87ai (some I've heard didn't sound so hot), I should probably just leave it alone at least for now. Thanks again folks!
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,099
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Post by ericn on Oct 19, 2023 12:54:53 GMT -6
Thanks to EVERYBOCY so much for chiming in, I'm not going to worry about it for now. I'm a little tempted to just return it and buy a new one, but it sounds like some wear/contamination is inevitable, so may just as well save the money for future cleaning down the road. Also, I remember reading a post by Klaus that some U87ai capsules were a little bass starved because of inaccurate tensioning...this may have been in the past, though. Still, since this is the probably, to me, the best sounding U87ai (some I've heard didn't sound so hot), I should probably just leave it alone at least for now. Thanks again folks! I’m going to put this as simple as I can. If you like it keep it, use a pop filter / spit guard store it in a ziploc with a Silica pack. I use the ones that change color as they lose effectiveness because the 1 year thing makes no sense when you don’t know how long it sat on the shelf before you got it. Tim please add or correct me on any of this. |
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kbb
Junior Member
Posts: 82
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Post by kbb on Oct 19, 2023 20:15:19 GMT -6
I’m going to put this as simple as I can. If you like it keep it, use a pop filter / spit guard store it in a ziploc with a Silica pack. I use the ones that change color as they lose effectiveness because the 1 year thing makes no sense when you don’t know how long it sat on the shelf before you got it. Aye aye, understood! I keep my place around 45% relative humidity for the health of some guitars, but I like your silica idea. In fact, I have some humidipaks that do two-way humidification/de-humidification (typically in guitar cases) that get hard when they're used up, and I may store all the mics with one of those in a single case. And yeah, of course a pop filter and gaurd. The mic is only a year or two old...I don't know why anyone wouldn't use those things on something like a U87ai. No matter my opinion of the mic, Neumann seems to do pretty precise work - nothing I'd let anyone walk up and spit into. Goofy! |
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Post by paulcheeba on Oct 20, 2023 3:27:34 GMT -6
Get a Stam SA 87T or a Beesneez B67mk2.
Both way superior and brand new.
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Post by opr on Oct 23, 2023 1:14:45 GMT -6
Hi there, I'm looking at a used mic, and while it sounds great, I'm just curious as to just how dirty this capsule is? The rear side is flawless. I'm not trying to be too OCD, but it's not cheap and so I'm just trying to do my due diligence. Honestly, I don't know what a "dirty" capsule really looks like, and trying my best to avoid bying something that's already halfway to needing service. I speculate that neumann capsule cleaning services isn't that painfully expensive (I think I read their service rates are $120/hr, and a number of posts have inferred that cleaning is roughly an hour job for a basic cleaning (only)). Thanks and curious for thoughts! ![]() That's totally fine. Ive seen much worse that still (amazingly) sound fine, a testament to Mylar diaphragms... Don't attempt cleaning with liquids as if it seeps in bye bye capsule not to mention the the gold sputtering is extremely vulnerable to liquids. |
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Post by Ward on Oct 23, 2023 4:32:03 GMT -6
That's totally fine. Ive seen much worse that still (amazingly) sound fine, a testament to Mylar diaphragms... Don't attempt cleaning with liquids as if it seeps in bye bye capsule not to mention the the gold sputtering is extremely vulnerable to liquids. I can imagine @tcampbell mics or tskguy giving the same advice. |
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Post by timcampbell on Oct 23, 2023 8:10:16 GMT -6
Ward ^^  This looks fine, like any capsule that has seen normal use. PLEASE don't try to clean it. No one without experience should ever try cleaning an expensive capsule. This is an unglued membrane with a hole in the center. The chance of getting liquid behind the membrane or changing the membrane tension is too great.
If it ain't broke don't fix it.
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Post by chessparov on Oct 23, 2023 9:12:36 GMT -6
I had a Bye Bye Capsule.
In my Baby Bottle.
True.
Then it went away.
Now I'm so Blue.
Chris
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kbb
Junior Member
Posts: 82
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Post by kbb on Oct 24, 2023 2:37:49 GMT -6
Get a Stam SA 87T or a Beesneez B67mk2. Both way superior and brand new. I'd like to get the Beesneez B67mk2, seems like a pretty different mic? I tried a used Stam 87 and it was nice, but not the same...not necessarily worse, just different. I go through phases of liking and disliking 87ai's. I've only ever bought them used (three so far, the first two returned), and this one sounds different than the first two...because of Neumann's fabled consistency, there shouldn't have been much variation between them, but that's not my experience so far. This last one is my favorite so far - more bass than the previous ones, and so balances that bump up top. I like singing into them...my voice sounds like I expect it to, and the proximity is easier to predict and use. The low mids don't get wily while staying big and warm. Their patterns just seem the most precise of any multi-pattern mics I've had, too. Omni sounds exactly how I expect it to sound. Believe me when I say that I wish I didn't harbor those opinions...it'd be wonderful to have a pair of Stams for roughly half the price of used 87ai. Ugh. I dunno! |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,099
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Post by ericn on Oct 24, 2023 9:48:28 GMT -6
I’m going to put this as simple as I can. If you like it keep it, use a pop filter / spit guard store it in a ziploc with a Silica pack. I use the ones that change color as they lose effectiveness because the 1 year thing makes no sense when you don’t know how long it sat on the shelf before you got it. Aye aye, understood! I keep my place around 45% relative humidity for the health of some guitars, but I like your silica idea. In fact, I have some humidipaks that do two-way humidification/de-humidification (typically in guitar cases) that get hard when they're used up, and I may store all the mics with one of those in a single case. And yeah, of course a pop filter and gaurd. The mic is only a year or two old...I don't know why anyone wouldn't use those things on something like a U87ai. No matter my opinion of the mic, Neumann seems to do pretty precise work - nothing I'd let anyone walk up and spit into. Goofy! Your doing it right, I do purposely dumb down some of this advice because as I’m sure Tim, OPR and just about everyone in the mic buisness or any biz for that matter will tell you, some of the smartest people I know do some of the dumbest shit ( myself included). Also even if you know this stuff, we might just teach a guy who’s lurking something and save some of our favorite mic builders hair. |
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Post by paulcheeba on Oct 24, 2023 17:02:10 GMT -6
Did you realise I was talking about the Stam with a tube the SA 87 T ?
Incredible microphone.
The B67 has so many variations until you’ve got to know it it’s hard to judge.
Either way they’re both more interesting imo than a used 87AI. The B87 is a much better mic imo too.
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Ari
Full Member
Posts: 35
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Post by Ari on Oct 24, 2023 18:52:55 GMT -6
Get a Stam SA 87T or a Beesneez B67mk2. Both way superior and brand new. I'd like to get the Beesneez B67mk2, seems like a pretty different mic? I tried a used Stam 87 and it was nice, but not the same...not necessarily worse, just different. I go through phases of liking and disliking 87ai's. I've only ever bought them used (three so far, the first two returned), and this one sounds different than the first two...because of Neumann's fabled consistency, there shouldn't have been much variation between them, but that's not my experience so far. This last one is my favorite so far - more bass than the previous ones, and so balances that bump up top. I like singing into them...my voice sounds like I expect it to, and the proximity is easier to predict and use. The low mids don't get wily while staying big and warm. Their patterns just seem the most precise of any multi-pattern mics I've had, too. Omni sounds exactly how I expect it to sound. Believe me when I say that I wish I didn't harbor those opinions...it'd be wonderful to have a pair of Stams for roughly half the price of used 87ai. Ugh. I dunno!
Apparently Neumann tweaked their tuning a bit in 2021 to have more bass again, allegedly.
I would say a lot of clones are "better" than a real 87 but that's not always what you want. The 87 sounds the way it does because it's light in the low mids and essentially brick walls above 10khz. A lot of clone mic makers go "we'll recreate it but tweak some things" and then fix all the problems that make the mic sound interesting. The u87's "refined top end" and "lack of wooliness" are mostly due to its relatively tight band limits on both ends. If you fix these problems by swapping out for a better-spec transformer or altering the capsule tension, diaphragm thickness or feedback, it doesn't really sound like a u87 anymore. It sounds good. maybe even better! but not the same. I have definitely heard a few clones that I think sound better than the real mic on some sources. For me personally, I prefer a clone to be as close as possible just for the fun of it, and I like seeking out original designs otherwise. |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,099
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Post by ericn on Oct 24, 2023 19:52:16 GMT -6
I'd like to get the Beesneez B67mk2, seems like a pretty different mic? I tried a used Stam 87 and it was nice, but not the same...not necessarily worse, just different. I go through phases of liking and disliking 87ai's. I've only ever bought them used (three so far, the first two returned), and this one sounds different than the first two...because of Neumann's fabled consistency, there shouldn't have been much variation between them, but that's not my experience so far. This last one is my favorite so far - more bass than the previous ones, and so balances that bump up top. I like singing into them...my voice sounds like I expect it to, and the proximity is easier to predict and use. The low mids don't get wily while staying big and warm. Their patterns just seem the most precise of any multi-pattern mics I've had, too. Omni sounds exactly how I expect it to sound. Believe me when I say that I wish I didn't harbor those opinions...it'd be wonderful to have a pair of Stams for roughly half the price of used 87ai. Ugh. I dunno!
Apparently Neumann tweaked their tuning a bit in 2021 to have more bass again, allegedly.
I would say a lot of clones are "better" than a real 87 but that's not always what you want. The 87 sounds the way it does because it's light in the low mids and essentially brick walls above 10khz. A lot of clone mic makers go "we'll recreate it but tweak some things" and then fix all the problems that make the mic sound interesting. The u87's "refined top end" and "lack of wooliness" are mostly due to its relatively tight band limits on both ends. If you fix these problems by swapping out for a better-spec transformer or altering the capsule tension, diaphragm thickness or feedback, it doesn't really sound like a u87 anymore. It sounds good. maybe even better! but not the same. I have definitely heard a few clones that I think sound better than the real mic on some sources. For me personally, I prefer a clone to be as close as possible just for the fun of it, and I like seeking out original designs otherwise. Sure Ari, dare to bring well thought out researched logical reasoning 😁 |
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Post by drbill on Oct 24, 2023 19:56:46 GMT -6
The 87 sounds the way it does because it's light in the low mids and essentially brick walls above 10khz. A lot of clone mic makers go "we'll recreate it but tweak some things" and then fix all the problems that make the mic sound interesting. The u87's "refined top end" and "lack of wooliness" are mostly due to its relatively tight band limits on both ends.
Man...my experience with 87's over the last 30 years is pretty much opposite of yours. |
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