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Post by scotmcg70 on Oct 17, 2023 18:17:32 GMT -6
Hello all,
I'm wanting to start getting into hardware for my studio. I've got all the preliminary boxes ticked. Well treated room, excellent interfaces (2 x Apollo x8), nice D-A (Dangerous D-Box+), and killer monitors (Neumann KH310's with a KH750 sub). I've also got an Undertone audio MPDI-4 4 channel preamp and an Audient ASP880 8 channel preamp. My main work is tracking and mixing rock bands. I'm eventually planning on adding another 4 channel preamp (or 2 - 2 channels) but that's down the line. My thoughts are to buy 2 bus compressors, one for the main, and one for the drums. The biggest question is whether to go for two rack pieces or to start down the rabbit hole of 500 series modules. I kind of like the 500 series idea for different preamps, but I'm afraid that rack compressors will just be better, and easier to see and deal with due to their size. I have about $4000 to spend. I was originally thinking of going all Wes Audio, Titan rack, Dione Bus Comp, Rhea for the drums, add the Prometheus and maybe the Mimas down the line. The recall option is intriguing, but then I keep seeing reviews of the Smart C1LA saying it blows the Dione out the water so...? Then for the rack gear the Smart C2 is up there, as well as the Dramatic Obsidian, with possibly the Wes Audio ngBusComp for the drums. The D-Comp from Audioscape also looks super cool for drums and is way cheaper. I could also get the SSL clone from either Stam or Audioscape and probably be happy. There's just too much information and opinions and I can't really make up my mind. I am starting to think that the difference between all this gear is very slight and I could probably make a pretty good mix with any of it. Sorry for such a long post, hopefully you guys can talk me off the ledge. Thanks.
Scotty
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Post by nobtwiddler on Oct 17, 2023 19:15:10 GMT -6
In my 49 years of recording rock bands, the things that matter most are:
Decent preamps,
And Mics.
after that comp / limiters, and then EQ's.
And you are correct, the differences between mic pre amps are subtle, and not worth loosing sleep over.
Trust me I Know....once you get to a certain level anyone of them can and will sound good.
Hey I even made a few great records on the original Mackie 8 bus consoles, but I had great mics!
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 17, 2023 19:37:33 GMT -6
To stretch your budget further, and get 3 comps !  Take a look at the daking comp in classified here. Good luck ! |
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Post by spindrift on Oct 17, 2023 19:53:12 GMT -6
To echo nobtwiddler (Paul), mics are most important. Don’t skimp. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 17, 2023 20:45:38 GMT -6
In my 49 years of recording rock bands, the things that matter most are: Decent preamps, And Mics. after that comp / limiters, and then EQ's. And you are correct, the differences between mic pre amps are subtle, and not worth loosing sleep over. Trust me I Know....once you get to a certain level anyone of them can and will sound good. Hey I even made a few great records on the original Mackie 8 bus consoles, but I had great mics! Paul, nailed it. We all have trashed the Mackie and the whole affordable 8 bus generation, but those consoles with decent mics are the heart of some damn good records. The old gearpimp in me has a handful of directions I would recommend as starting points. First a decent little analog console, I own a number of consoles including multiple DDA’s a Otari status a Yamaha DM1000 and guess what the most used one is a little Behringer that lives in my go bag. That crappy little Behringer see’s more work than anything because it’s a little problem solver, mic pres got them basic EQ got them, mixer well yeah, need an extra headphone amp yup and a nice little phantom supply plus a cute little matrix. Now for the big boy toys Dr Bills Silverbullet or as I call it baby’s first out board, for multiple tonal options you won’t beat it. If you really want Dynamics you can put across the 2 bus, that Daking has one advantage over everything you mentioned, I can track 2 different channels as well. |
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Post by drbill on Oct 17, 2023 21:45:54 GMT -6
Now for the big boy toys Dr Bills Silverbullet or as I call it baby’s first out board, for multiple tonal options you won’t beat it. Do I owe you a beer Eric? haha! Of note, you can now get a mk2 with compressor built in - either a tube Vari-Mu from Locomotive, or an SSL style master bus and 2 buss compressor. Also....mic pre's to boot. Stereo ones at that. We call it the 2 channel console with all 3 of the classic food groups. |
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Post by thehightenor on Oct 18, 2023 0:43:50 GMT -6
Hello all, I'm wanting to start getting into hardware for my studio. I've got all the preliminary boxes ticked. Well treated room, excellent interfaces (2 x Apollo x8), nice D-A (Dangerous D-Box+), and killer monitors (Neumann KH310's with a KH750 sub). I've also got an Undertone audio MPDI-4 4 channel preamp and an Audient ASP880 8 channel preamp. My main work is tracking and mixing rock bands. I'm eventually planning on adding another 4 channel preamp (or 2 - 2 channels) but that's down the line. My thoughts are to buy 2 bus compressors, one for the main, and one for the drums. The biggest question is whether to go for two rack pieces or to start down the rabbit hole of 500 series modules. I kind of like the 500 series idea for different preamps, but I'm afraid that rack compressors will just be better, and easier to see and deal with due to their size. I have about $4000 to spend. I was originally thinking of going all Wes Audio, Titan rack, Dione Bus Comp, Rhea for the drums, add the Prometheus and maybe the Mimas down the line. The recall option is intriguing, but then I keep seeing reviews of the Smart C1LA saying it blows the Dione out the water so...? Then for the rack gear the Smart C2 is up there, as well as the Dramatic Obsidian, with possibly the Wes Audio ngBusComp for the drums. The D-Comp from Audioscape also looks super cool for drums and is way cheaper. I could also get the SSL clone from either Stam or Audioscape and probably be happy. There's just too much information and opinions and I can't really make up my mind. I am starting to think that the difference between all this gear is very slight and I could probably make a pretty good mix with any of it. Sorry for such a long post, hopefully you guys can talk me off the ledge. Thanks. Scotty Tricky. What sound are you looking for? I love big expansive, expensive, glossy sounding productions and so for my two bus it has to be a VCA (there's a lot of choice out there) into a Vari-MU (lot's of choice) My chain is a RMS 755 (sadly no longer in production) > Thermionic Phoenix Mastering Plus. It's a huge 3D soundscape. The RMS 755 has the tight VCA envelope but a really big bandwidth top to bottom which lets the Thermionic do it's thing. If you wanted something with more crunch in the mids and "rockier" sounding then the Smart C1LA is very nice sounding unit as is the Obsidian (though personally I prefer the CL1A) There's some cheaper Vari-Mu's out there like the IGS units Tubecore (IGS do DB and Zener Diode bus compressors too as sensible prices) As I said, there's so many choices I think you have to demo some of these units and focus in on what soundscape are you trying to achieve in your productions. It's a rabbit hole. But a fun one |
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Post by scotmcg70 on Oct 18, 2023 7:00:59 GMT -6
Thanks everyone. I've been looking at The Silver Bullet as well, maybe that would be the best way to go. Does anyone have an opinion on 500 gear vs rack gear?
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 18, 2023 7:37:32 GMT -6
Thanks everyone. I've been looking at The Silver Bullet as well, maybe that would be the best way to go. Does anyone have an opinion on 500 gear vs rack gear? Okay I am a huge fan of 500 series where it makes sense, to me putting tubes in a format with 500 series limited voltage is more of a “ we can do that “ vs we “ should do that” the size factor limits what you can do both electronically and physically as far as controls. You also have to remember the more jacks you need the more space it takes up. One of the reasons both Paul Wolf and I have noted publicly that so many manufacturers have gone 500 series is that if the chassis and PSU are listed with one of the safety agencies the module is listed without the expense and time of testing (also why you have so many wall warts). |
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Post by drbill on Oct 18, 2023 9:56:15 GMT -6
Thanks everyone. I've been looking at The Silver Bullet as well, maybe that would be the best way to go. Does anyone have an opinion on 500 gear vs rack gear? re: 500 series - I think they are both 500 and full rack footprints are great. For tube gear, I'll almost always go to a rack enclosure, as my 500 racks get SOOOO freaking hot even with solid state gear in them. Also, for most tube gear (not all) the power supply and high voltage options for rack mounted vs. 500 are more robust. I really like 500 for it's small footprint, and getting a lot of bang for the buck in a small space. So...both are a big win for me. |
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Post by scotmcg70 on Oct 18, 2023 11:34:53 GMT -6
Now for the big boy toys Dr Bills Silverbullet or as I call it baby’s first out board, for multiple tonal options you won’t beat it. Do I owe you a beer Eric? haha! Of note, you can now get a mk2 with compressor built in - either a tube Vari-Mu from Locomotive, or an SSL style master bus and 2 buss compressor. Also....mic pre's to boot. Stereo ones at that. We call it the 2 channel console with all 3 of the classic food groups. drBill, I can't find any info or where to purchase the Locomotive Vari-Mu or the SSL style comp you mentioned... |
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Post by smashlord on Oct 18, 2023 11:56:58 GMT -6
For mixing, I would recommend getting a 2 buss compressor AND a 2 buss EQ over a compressor for drums and one for the bus.
I find that just a compressor on the 2 mix can have very subtle benefits but once you chain in a second analog device it becomes less subtle. If going with an SSL-type compressor, I might recommend an EQ that has some transformers in it. Transformers can provide "free" level, smooth out transients, and for lack of a better description help makes things "sound like a record". The secondary benefit of compressor and EQ for 2 mix vs compressor for drums and one for mix is that EVERYTHING will pass through this gear.
If buying used, you could score either a Serpent SB4001 or C1LA plus an API 5500 (also incredibly useful for tracking) or pair of Audioscape EQP-As within your budget.
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Post by drbill on Oct 18, 2023 12:47:16 GMT -6
Do I owe you a beer Eric? haha! Of note, you can now get a mk2 with compressor built in - either a tube Vari-Mu from Locomotive, or an SSL style master bus and 2 buss compressor. Also....mic pre's to boot. Stereo ones at that. We call it the 2 channel console with all 3 of the classic food groups. drBill, I can't find any info or where to purchase the Locomotive Vari-Mu or the SSL style comp you mentioned... They have been officially announced, are in production, and will be available shortly. If you prefer one of those comps over the normally included Hitmaker 4000, contact Deegan at LTL and mention that you want to get the hardware, but want it to come with whichever comp seems most appropriate for you use. I'm sure he will sort you out. Maybe they will let you order it short loaded, and you can upgrade upon availability which should be Fall from what I've heard. Best of luck! |
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Post by crillemannen on Oct 18, 2023 12:55:01 GMT -6
Spend money on mics and pres. It's Silly how easy it is to get good sound with good gear. I don't want to be a party pooper but ITB is great if you have a great sound going in. I recently borrowed two full racks of 500-series gear but I'm honestly not blown away. 00.2
But.. a pultec style eq plus an ssl-buscomp will definitely get you a long way for setting a vibe on a mix of you're set on vasting money
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Post by chessparov on Oct 18, 2023 13:15:21 GMT -6
"vasting money". ? Reminds me of the Gabor sisters. Daahhling. (I keed I keed) Chris |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2023 14:04:22 GMT -6
also a really solid computer. the mac minis are good. the apple silicon macbooks are good. following a windows desktop build guide or going to a daw builder is good.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 18, 2023 15:05:13 GMT -6
also a really solid computer. the mac minis are good. the apple silicon macbooks are good. following a windows desktop build guide or going to a daw builder is good. Yeah I’m sitting here in the hospital trying to figure out if I move money around if I can swing a used Mac Studio for Davinci resolve / Fairlight! |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 18, 2023 15:05:51 GMT -6
also a really solid computer. the mac minis are good. the apple silicon macbooks are good. following a windows desktop build guide or going to a daw builder is good. Yeah I’m sitting here in the hospital trying to figure out if I move money around if I can swing a used Mac Studio for Davinci resolve / Fairlight! |
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Post by Tbone81 on Oct 18, 2023 15:16:36 GMT -6
Audioscape announced a 33609 clone, sounds like that would fit the ticket for drum bus.
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Post by sean on Oct 18, 2023 15:43:54 GMT -6
I have forty channels of compression here at the studio and honestly, besides a little compression for a dynamic vocalist, and just a touch of compression on upright bass, I rarely patch anything else in while tracking. Sometimes I’ll put something on overheads when you have a drum with a loud ass snare drum that takes over…
I think an underrated tracking compressor is the Summit Audio TLA-100. New, they are fairly expensive, but I paid around $1000 for each of mine and they are the only outboard compressors I use every session
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Post by chessparov on Oct 18, 2023 15:44:36 GMT -6
also a really solid computer. the mac minis are good. the apple silicon macbooks are good. following a windows desktop build guide or going to a daw builder is good. Yeah I’m sitting here in the hospital trying to figure out if I move money around if I can swing a used Mac Studio for Davinci resolve / Fairlight! Feel better Buddy. Friday morning I had a bit of a scare. (High Blood pressure/unusual for me) But ended up not going to Emergency. Chris |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 18, 2023 15:56:06 GMT -6
Yeah I’m sitting here in the hospital trying to figure out if I move money around if I can swing a used Mac Studio for Davinci resolve / Fairlight! Feel better Buddy. Friday morning I had a bit of a scare. (High Blood pressure/unusual for me) But ended up not going to Emergency. Chris Thanks Chris, Ironically it’s a pancreatitis attack, but the issue that made me go in was LOW BLOOD PRESSURE 🤪 |
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Post by chessparov on Oct 18, 2023 22:47:14 GMT -6
I understand. BTW I may have spoken a bit too soon. Am in the Emergency waiting room right now. Pretty sure it's another UTI. Blood Pressure was high. I learned last May/2022 being with you guys... Actually lowers it for me! Hope to post here at least by tomorrow. All my best, Chris |
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Post by drbill on Oct 19, 2023 11:09:51 GMT -6
get better Chris!!!!!
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Post by drbill on Oct 19, 2023 11:10:37 GMT -6
yikes! You to Eric!
Both of you get outta the hospital!!
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