|
|
Post by Pueblo Audio on Sept 12, 2023 14:56:16 GMT -6
It didn't sound like bullshit when I was in some of the finest studios in the world when I was younger. I've heard productions by the same engineer, one with dozens and dozens of different preamps, and the other on a Helios console. One sounded perfect and natural, the other over-processed. Of course the artist was different, but my ears noticed a significant difference. I'll take one console any day, but I can't afford that anymore. Besides, I use different mics regardless of whether it's a console or separate preamps, so I don't understand your last statement. I've been in the studio when Steve Winwood recorded Back in the Highlife with Nile Rogers, recorded on the same console that Jimi Hendrix recorded on at Electric Lady through his Marshall 100, sat in for mixes of Brad Paisley, Neo, James Blunt, done through a giant Neve. I've recorded at Bell Sound, Plaza Sound, Unique Recording, and a dozen other great studios. Listened to early mixes of Blondie, Talking Heads "Once in a Lifetime", and the Rolling Stones all with one console EQ, Neve, API, Trident and others. I'm not saying you can't sound great and have a very interesting color palette using different preamps, just that there was something about the cohesion of those classic records like Pink Floyd's great albums that has never been surpassed IMO. So a question which will help focus your experience for us all would be, “did the console work in tandem with an analog multitrack deck!” That would complete the zero-latency advantage of an all-analog studio. Analog reels are spinning here every day for decades. I argue that the zero latency is the prevailing benefit of all analog production; more so than saturation, head bumps and other perceived phenomena. High end preamps benefit all-analog productions. All work at the “speed-of-now”. Music is a temporal art. |
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Sept 12, 2023 15:02:41 GMT -6
If you can't get a cohesive sound with either old school console or new skool outboard approach, the problem is not in the tools. It's the Converters then. |
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Sept 12, 2023 16:01:54 GMT -6
If you can't get a cohesive sound with either old school console or new skool outboard approach, the problem is not in the tools. I'm sure most of us can . . . we're just exploring avenues at this point and splitting hairs. Sorry, dad. |
|
|
|
Post by plinker on Sept 12, 2023 16:04:32 GMT -6
I'm really curious what's behind that @pueblo Audio invisible ink!!!
|
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Sept 12, 2023 16:28:59 GMT -6
I'm really curious what's behind that @pueblo Audio invisible ink!!! |
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Sept 12, 2023 17:25:42 GMT -6
If you can't get a cohesive sound with either old school console or new skool outboard approach, the problem is not in the tools. I'm sure most of us can . . . we're just exploring avenues at this point and splitting hairs. Sorry, dad. Time to put that old wives tale to bed. Internet legend…. |
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 12, 2023 20:31:16 GMT -6
Yeah, I did forget to mention all those recordings were done using tape recorders. Personally, I can't go back to tape machines at home, but I'd give it a go if I was in a great studio with a good engineer, some great mics and a smokin' band.
|
|
|
|
Post by gravesnumber9 on Sept 14, 2023 11:06:10 GMT -6
If you can't get a cohesive sound with either old school console or new skool outboard approach, the problem is not in the tools. It's the Converters then.  |
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Sept 14, 2023 12:04:42 GMT -6
Yeah, I did forget to mention all those recordings were done using tape recorders. Personally, I can't go back to tape machines at home, but I'd give it a go if I was in a great studio with a good engineer, some great mics and a smokin' band. Non-Smoker here... Chris |
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Sept 14, 2023 12:18:52 GMT -6
Yeah, I did forget to mention all those recordings were done using tape recorders. Personally, I can't go back to tape machines at home, but I'd give it a go if I was in a great studio with a good engineer, some great mics and a smokin' band. Non-Smoker here... Chris I remember you and your people back in the late 80s and 90s. So judgy-judgy whilst the rest of us dangled long ashes over the console and everything else and filled the air full of sticky yellow vapors. I had favorite brands of cigarettes for every country I worked in. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2023 13:12:48 GMT -6
All of this raises another interesting question. If you could have as many channels of ANY preamp you wanted (but only one kind), which would you choose? And why would it be a 1073/81? (only half kidding). Probably Hardy M1 clean with just enough color to make it interesting. Plus they are built like a tank. Yes but try telling people online to buy Hardy, GML, or Grace pres. “Dude it’s not a Neve!” |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2023 13:45:02 GMT -6
I personally think this “console cohesive sound” thing is bullshit. At least extremely mythical and misleading. It’s gonna make you pick different mics for the job, just like using different pre types is gonna do the same. But different. if the Beatles could pick out the pres that made them sound better than they really were or just not degrade their sound, they would’ve. For all the Chandler love and the nice build quality, I’ve heard that the Beatles didn’t like how the TG board made the drums and guitars sound on Abbey Road. The real question is would they pick out tons of money pres or just buy 16-24 channels of something clean enough and good? I’d like to think both. |
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Sept 14, 2023 15:51:31 GMT -6
I remember you and your people back in the late 80s and 90s. So judgy-judgy whilst the rest of us dangled long ashes over the console and everything else and filled the air full of sticky yellow vapors. I had favorite brands of cigarettes for every country I worked in. As I read this I'm practicing "Judgy Judgy Judgy"... With the prerequisite Cary Grant accent!  (Cues "I'm Burnin' For You/BOC  ) Chris |
|
|
|
Post by thehightenor on Sept 14, 2023 17:11:35 GMT -6
Yeah, I did forget to mention all those recordings were done using tape recorders. Personally, I can't go back to tape machines at home, but I'd give it a go if I was in a great studio with a good engineer, some great mics and a smokin' band. I produced an EP for an artists many years ago and played drums on the EP too. He booked this super funky studio and it had 16 tracks on 2" tape machine. The sound that came back of that tape machine of my kit was frikkin' massive and fat and warm and just amazing in every musical term possible. No tape plugin is ever, ever, ever going to give you that sound in a DAW even if they invent a real "flux capacitor" to run it!! Real tape and drums = perfection. |
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Sept 14, 2023 17:31:24 GMT -6
Had similar experience at 2 of the Studios James Lugo opened years ago.
2" 16 Track vs. Pro Tools.
Partly he was demonstrating Clasp.
Chris
|
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Sept 14, 2023 17:55:27 GMT -6
Had similar experience at 2 of the Studios James Lugo opened years ago. 2" 16 Track vs. Pro Tools. Partly he was demonstrating Clasp. Chrus That Clasp thing went out of business. I honestly couldn’t figure out exactly what or how that thing worked. |
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Sept 14, 2023 18:25:48 GMT -6
Yes. I have to remember myself.
Chris
|
|
|
|
Post by plinker on Sept 14, 2023 18:30:45 GMT -6
Yeah, I did forget to mention all those recordings were done using tape recorders. Personally, I can't go back to tape machines at home, but I'd give it a go if I was in a great studio with a good engineer, some great mics and a smokin' band. Non-Smoker here... Chris Ahh..right. Edibles....hipster! |
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 14, 2023 20:45:22 GMT -6
2" 16 track, best bass ever.
|
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Sept 14, 2023 20:53:09 GMT -6
@ 15ips Chris |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2023 3:27:29 GMT -6
It didn't sound like bullshit when I was in some of the finest studios in the world when I was younger. I've heard productions by the same engineer, one with dozens and dozens of different preamps, and the other on a Helios console. One sounded perfect and natural, the other over-processed. Of course the artist was different, but my ears noticed a significant difference. I'll take one console any day, but I can't afford that anymore. Besides, I use different mics regardless of whether it's a console or separate preamps, so I don't understand your last statement. I've been in the studio when Steve Winwood recorded Back in the Highlife with Nile Rogers, recorded on the same console that Jimi Hendrix recorded on at Electric Lady through his Marshall 100, sat in for mixes of Brad Paisley, Neo, James Blunt, done through a giant Neve. I've recorded at Bell Sound, Plaza Sound, Unique Recording, and a dozen other great studios. Listened to early mixes of Blondie, Talking Heads "Once in a Lifetime", and the Rolling Stones all with one console EQ, Neve, API, Trident and others. I'm not saying you can't sound great and have a very interesting color palette using different preamps, just that there was something about the cohesion of those classic records like Pink Floyd's great albums that has never been surpassed IMO. So a question which will help focus your experience for us all would be, “did the console work in tandem with an analog multitrack deck!” That would complete the zero-latency advantage of an all-analog studio. Analog reels are spinning here every day for decades. I argue that the zero latency is the prevailing benefit of all analog production; more so than saturation, head bumps and other perceived phenomena. High end preamps benefit all-analog productions. All work at the “speed-of-now”. Music is a temporal art. Monitoring off the recording medium in analog is hugely latent in comparison to digital. The analog to digital to analog loopback is much less latent than monitoring off the repro head. There are mix-worthy zero-latency digital plugins now to make printable monitor mixes with alongside interfaces with dsp mixers or even full DAWs running on them (Avid, UAD, Metric Halo). For others: www.sweetwater.com/insync/repro/www.sweetwater.com/insync/confidence-monitoring/ |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2023 15:42:55 GMT -6
2" 16 track, best bass ever. Compared to what exactly? Some might not like modern music but some of the sound sculpting / transient designer approaches absolutely destroys any 2" in the bass region..
|
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 15, 2023 16:05:30 GMT -6
Compared to the 24 tk 2" Studer tape recorder for example. There was just something about it that your body felt, words don't do it justice. Can't say I'm an expert on analyzing bass done with modern music tools for processing bass though.
|
|
|
|
Post by winetree on Sept 15, 2023 17:50:43 GMT -6
A Member Said.
"Monitoring off the recording medium in analog is hugely latent in comparison to digital.
The analog to digital to analog loopback is much less latent than monitoring off the repro head"
Yea, if you monitor off the repo head while over dubbing. Who does that?
Modern tape machines have sel/sync which turns the record head into a playback head.
Allowing playback of recorded tracks while recording new tracks with .ZERO latency
Headphones, zero latency.
Mixing is done off the repo head, zero latency.
Digital has latency, no matter how small. Period.
|
|
|
|
Post by nick8801 on Sept 15, 2023 18:10:10 GMT -6
I mean, technically there is no such thing as zero latency. It may not be perceivable, but there’s always some kind of latency.
|
|
)
