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Post by sam on Sept 1, 2023 8:03:45 GMT -6
EDIT: I poorly asked this. What I meant was how does one move on to another speaker after years of using one type.
How does anyone switch speakers or add a second pair to their rig? I don’t know if y’all remembered but I asked recently for some speaker recommendations and guess what, I’m still just on my vintage white cones.
I would love something else but between being up to my ears in work, I don’t know how to slide a pair in and actually give them a real go, especially if I’m about to drop actual money on them. Help!
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Post by mcirish on Sept 1, 2023 8:28:13 GMT -6
I feel like "knowing the speakers" is in some way better than new speakers. But on the other hand, I've gone through a lot of various studio monitors. Currently, I'm on LYD48's. After the switch, I still had trouble with mix translations. Then I got Sonarworks. I can finally mix and be confident that what I'm hearing is what is actually there. No matter what speaker you choose, I think it's super important to sweep the room and find out what the issues are. From there, you can use an EQ or something like Sonarworks to smooth out the room modes in the mix position. Had I known about room modes (and believed it) years ago, I could have saved a lot in studio monitors.
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Post by Ward on Sept 1, 2023 9:23:00 GMT -6
I have options out of my console, as well as one of those 'Central Station' pieces of junk when I want to add other options for special cases.
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Post by ericn on Sept 1, 2023 9:31:20 GMT -6
Lots of pencil marks!, I start with marks of the default position of what I have already. These are the most important marks because I want to be able to back to this setup at any time. With near fields I’m always going to try to find compromised positions for both my reference and the interlopers, I need to both judge and learn them and switching back and forth let’s me get an idea of what’s what. Again pencil marks because I’m going to be moving things around trying to find positions that work. The RTA on my phone and IPad are essential tools in both setting levels and giving me graphical proof of any frequency response issues and confirming polarity. My little Coleman 3 way switcher is a godsend. Correction software and subs can be frustrating because of the time to reset as I switch back and forth. I haven’t found a solution for the software but for the subs I have, for less than a $100 you can find a used BSS 9088iis with this and windows 7 or laptop with RS232. You have a fully configurable 8x8 digital crossover and matrix, that will let you program at least 12 pre sets of EQ, crossover’s with most common filter types and can be asymmetrical, hi and low pass, delay some freq specific phase correction graphic EQ parametric EQ’s both before and after the crossover point. They have no pre programmed order of the various DSP functions It’s a matrix where you place the procccesing blocks where you want them. You control parameters and switching of programs from the host computer. The conversion is very bland but there are AES I/O boards out there they just go for $250 ea. I use them all the time for budget installations and have one in use right now for exactly what I described above, oh they also have a built in tone and pink noise generator. I have their newer more powerful brother the London Blu 80 in the live racks.
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Post by sam on Sept 1, 2023 9:40:16 GMT -6
Ok I may have asked this question in a poorly worded way. How do people switch to using a different speaker after years of being on one type haha
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Post by kcatthedog on Sept 1, 2023 9:47:09 GMT -6
Don’t overthink it, just do, but pick the new monitors for a reason.
break in the new monitors,
Then, I’d take a current mix and a/b it between the old and new and just think about the differences you hear and why, this will help you calibrate between the two sets of monitors
If you also use cans, this can help as a sonic perspective point not affected by the room,from which to also consider the sonic differences between the monitors .
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Post by ericn on Sept 1, 2023 10:00:14 GMT -6
Ok I may have asked this question in a poorly worded way. How do people switch to using a different speaker after years of being on one type haha Lots of listening, guys who change speakers fall into 2 groups: something similar and something completely different. Example NS10 guys, lots move to ProAC Studio, the are an improvement but in the same sonic ballpark or ATC SCM20’s very different sounding. Using headphones you know as a reference is great to have and makes a change quicker. One of the hardest concepts to understand is knowing a speaker and liking a speaker are very different concepts but can overlap. Lots of guys are still on ancient speakers simply because they know them inside out and don’t have the time to learn something new.
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Post by drumsound on Sept 1, 2023 10:48:21 GMT -6
I've been through this a few times and each time I actually found it pretty fun. In the first studio I worked in, the boss and I were into making money and upgrading things. We went from Alesis Monitor One's (which I did like and wonder how they compare today) to Mackie HR824. We had little crappy speakers, and there was a period of JBL 3-ways (4322 I think) that were a little big for the space, but still useful. We added NS10s at some point as well. When I bought the boss out and set up my current room I had the HR834 and NS10s. After a while, I sold the NS10 because they weren't helping. A few years later, I did a comparison between. Truth Audio TA-1P and NHT M-00 that you can read HERE. Again after many years of use I got to the set of custom 3-way triamped dipole monitors. Each time it was after a long period of using something, and developing as an engineer that I would notice something that wasn't being provided, or was lacking in whatever system I was on. They I'd investigate and try to figure out the next step. Then, once something was put in place (including placing monitors I owned into a new space) I just spent time listening. I noticed how different music that I knew well sounded. I listened for things I knew were coming and see how the new monitors handled it. I though about things maybe I didn't pick up in recording that I was now hearing because of the change in monitors. And then I got to work. On the first mix I did on the custom set, I sent it to Scott at Old Coloey Mastering, who does most of my work. I told him I had new monitors and asked for any feedback that he had, the good, the bad and the ugly. The first sentence of his return email was "Yeah, you're gonna want to keep those." I'm about a year into having them, and they have less of a "WOW" factor because I hear them all the time, but I am happy with the upgrade.
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Post by christopher on Sept 1, 2023 11:21:20 GMT -6
I listen to music because it should sound exactly how my brain would want to mix it. If it sounds like it needs an improvement, I grab EQ and fix it to sound better- Usually it’s like the car stereo, some bass and treble shelves. I always check sub area 20-80Hz with some peak nodes. Takes like 30 seconds to try and usually feels better.. then I look at what my EQ moves look like. Sit there a bit and listen for any weirdness that just isn’t ok. Run my quiet, slow 60 second sine sweep, find out wtf is going on, where are things lumpy or missing. With and without EQ. Might have my LDC record it at the same time so I can visually see danger areas. My goal is no EQ, I’m just trying to get my ears to understand what is actually going on. Eventually I get a mental idea of what’s happening. Make a EQ curve for the monitors as my “alt check” and go back to bypassed EQ and try to train my brain to love references. After 10-30 minutes I usually adapt and can work.
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Post by Ward on Sept 1, 2023 12:56:02 GMT -6
Ok I may have asked this question in a poorly worded way. How do people switch to using a different speaker after years of being on one type haha I had NO idea that's what you meant . . . I guess my answer to that question is: You got used to 'X' in the past, now you just have to get used to 'Y' in the present. Trial by fire, or just jump in the water . . . whichever analogy suits you better. Just do it.
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Post by theshea on Sept 1, 2023 13:13:16 GMT -6
i only ever had 3 monitor speakers in my life and i got used to the new speakers by a) listening a lot to reference mixes b) mixing - checking on headphones/car - mixing - checking - mixing etc.
takes a while but for me the only way to „learn“ the new monitors.
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Post by kbsmoove on Sept 2, 2023 10:06:36 GMT -6
I think the best way to find out if speakers work for you in your room is to just mix on them. Just mix with confidence, and then check on your old monitors/car/headphones/usual spots. If the mixes translate well, then you'll do good work on them. and if its a mess, maybe listen back to your mix on the new monitors and see if you just missed something obvious.
when i switched from ADAMs to JBLs ~10 years ago (currently on LSR6328Ps), i tried a lot of monitors. the first time i listened to one of my own mixes on the JBLs it pretty much sealed the deal for me. All the things I didn't like about my mixes were quite apparent on the JBLs, and my work improved almost immediately. I don't think i'd take the time to learn something i didn't connect with right away.
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Post by chessparov on Sept 2, 2023 11:05:56 GMT -6
How does anyone switch speakers? Carefully!
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Post by ericn on Sept 2, 2023 16:54:35 GMT -6
How does anyone switch speakers? Carefully! Of course their is the whole reason for the CLA/ NS10’s, they don’t!
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Post by chessparov on Sept 2, 2023 17:17:44 GMT -6
What is the sound of one NS10. Alone in the forest. Without a tissue to listen with? Chris
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Post by ericn on Sept 2, 2023 18:24:50 GMT -6
What is the sound of one NS10. Alone in the forest. Without a tissue to listen with? Chris Why it is the sound of wild life screaming in pain as their poor ears bleed😁
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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 3, 2023 13:44:41 GMT -6
Ok I may have asked this question in a poorly worded way. How do people switch to using a different speaker after years of being on one type haha It’s a good question. It’s basically this - “how do you trust what you’re hearing?” And that’s a huge reason I wanted something like the Trinnov. It gives me a baseline where I know I can trust what I’m hearing. Different speakers might bring out different nuances, but I wont have to worry about improper balancing of frequencies. I’m in kind've the same situation with my monitors. I’m having really good success with translation, but I think I’m starting to get ho-hum after using them for years. Like - I don’t know if I’m inspired by them like I was in the beginning. This is nerdy for sure - and I’m not saying I dislike them or anything, I just know there might be something out there more efficient and exciting to me in the room. I would think because of the Trinnov, any learning curve would be flattened a lot because by definition, the Trinnov is supposed to flatten the room’s response. So if it sounds good in the room, it’s gonna sound good everywhere. But there might be might be something (more expensive) that is objectively deeper or punchier or tighter and makes my experience mixing more pleasing. Anyway - after saying all that - I kindve want another Sumbuss lol.
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Post by drumsound on Sept 3, 2023 17:50:52 GMT -6
For anyone interested, my guy is working on a pair of dipole 3-ways that are a little larger than the ones I have. He's trying to get them into some more professional studio people using them. He suggest them to be tri-amped and DSP-controlled.
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Post by sam on Sept 3, 2023 22:36:02 GMT -6
For anyone interested, my guy is working on a pair of dipole 3-ways that are a little larger than the ones I have. He's trying to get them into some more professional studio people using them. He suggest them to be tri-amped and DSP-controlled. Hey I mean I’d love to give them a go. I do lots of work and I would really put them through their paces
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2023 11:20:08 GMT -6
I would love something else but between being up to my ears in work, I don’t know how to slide a pair in and actually give them a real go, especially if I’m about to drop actual money on them. Help! Can't you get a few demo pair's or one's with a good returns policy? I work too much and I still managed to get through eight pairs in about six or so months. Settled on the Dynaudio Core 59's and they're never going anywhere. Even if they develop a fault, I'll just sell my house or something and buy another pair.
The issue for me is not having options, that's a good thing. It's finding something that works & keeping it going untill I can't anymore, I'm sure in a decade or so they'll eventually go kaput. I just hope I can get parts or a replacement pair so don't have to start the tedious process of testing out new monitors.. Today however my testing approach is far quicker. I give them three strikes (that's mix and masters), if they don't translate across the several consumer devices I have they leave the building. Simple as that..
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Post by sam on Sept 6, 2023 16:53:00 GMT -6
I’m actually at Sweetwater doing a record for a couple weeks and today they pulled in some ATC 20 and 25s for me to shoot out. I really do like the 25s but I’m curious how they’ll pair with the 10s
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Post by notneeson on Sept 6, 2023 21:28:43 GMT -6
I’m actually at Sweetwater doing a record for a couple weeks and today they pulled in some ATC 20 and 25s for me to shoot out. I really do like the 25s but I’m curious how they’ll pair with the 10s How does that work? The Sweetwater thing. Are you an influencer? (Not trying to start a beef, I’m legit curious).
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Post by sam on Sept 7, 2023 7:43:45 GMT -6
I’m actually at Sweetwater doing a record for a couple weeks and today they pulled in some ATC 20 and 25s for me to shoot out. I really do like the 25s but I’m curious how they’ll pair with the 10s How does that work? The Sweetwater thing. Are you an influencer? (Not trying to start a beef, I’m legit curious). No, just a dude. I’ve been lucky enough in my short time to have done some cool records and that’s led to some online course stuff like Nail The Mix, and then when planning a new record with the band I’m working with, they brought up Sweetwater to do it at, as SW is trying to get more modern bands through the door after redoing their whole studio. Then from there it led to “hey do you also wanna do a recording workshop after the record?” And I said hell yeah brother. The studio section is a massive playground and Shawn who runs it is an amazing dude. While I’m here they’re able to pull pretty much anything they have a demo of for me to use, so I thought I’d shoot out a few different ATCs
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Post by notneeson on Sept 7, 2023 7:46:34 GMT -6
How does that work? The Sweetwater thing. Are you an influencer? (Not trying to start a beef, I’m legit curious). No, just a dude. I’ve been lucky enough in my short time to have done some cool records and that’s led to some online course stuff like Nail The Mix, and then when planning a new record with the band I’m working with, they brought up Sweetwater to do it at, as SW is trying to get more modern bands through the door after redoing their whole studio. Then from there it led to “hey do you also wanna do a recording workshop after the record?” And I said hell yeah brother. The studio section is a massive playground and Shawn who runs it is an amazing dude. While I’m here they’re able to pull pretty much anything they have a demo of for me to use, so I thought I’d shoot out a few different ATCs Nice!
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Post by svart on Sept 7, 2023 8:12:34 GMT -6
EDIT: I poorly asked this. What I meant was how does one move on to another speaker after years of using one type. How does anyone switch speakers or add a second pair to their rig? I don’t know if y’all remembered but I asked recently for some speaker recommendations and guess what, I’m still just on my vintage white cones. I would love something else but between being up to my ears in work, I don’t know how to slide a pair in and actually give them a real go, especially if I’m about to drop actual money on them. Help! For me it was as easy as "not listening to the old speakers for a week" and then starting fresh with the new ones. I listened to an old mix, identified the things that jumped out differently to me and then redid the mix from scratch. I'd say it really taught me what was different going through that process. I instantly noticed very different EQ moves I would do, etc. I also went from 2-ways to 3-ways which I think really, really changed how I perceived the audio. Edit: Maybe some more info would be useful.. I always had trouble with midrange translation even on decent 2-ways. I decided to move to 3-ways for this reason alone. I also created a list of requirements to try to fulfill. One major one is WIDE dispersion. I did not want narrow sweet spots. I move my head a lot and I don't want to have to sit in an exact position to hear what's *really* going on in my mix. I guess that would encompass a domed midrange and/or waveguide on the tweeter and preferably the midrange. I also wanted fabric tweeter/midrange. After years of trying metal domes/cones I came to the conclusion that I just don't like how they sound. They have too many drawbacks (high distortion in the breakup region) that require too many workarounds in the crossovers that cause more issues than the hard cones solve. I also wanted digital inputs so I could remove a conversion step out of the chain. In the end, the speaker that fulfilled my requirements was the KH310D. Mixes translated immediately. I still had some learning to do with them but for the most part it was an easy changeover.
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