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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2023 8:41:32 GMT -6
My no.1 guitar student uses ChatGPT to rough in his homework and then mods it to pass the check filters. I wish ChatGPT could help him remember his modes with the same ease! lol I turned him on to Vivaldi and he has near mastered 2 of the Four Seasons and is now on a Paco DeLucia buzz. I'm so proud of him at only 15 but I need him playing stuff besides exotic Phrygians! Remarkable kid. From Metallica & CoB covers to Paco...just beaming!!
Ok, yes we just had a session and any reason to talk him up will do. So proud of this generation coming up
Thats very interesting about prompt engineering, first time I have heard that term
It's pretty nuts how much AI has changed coding in the last couple of years. You can prompt, or you can also start lines of code and the AI will figure what you want to do and complete it. The main change is compilers have gotten a lot better. They’re better at converting C code into machine code than humans are at writing assembly. There’s still next level coders and software designers out there, even in audio, like the U-he, Tokyo Dawn, Sound Radix, Apulsoft, and Justin and Schwa for Reaper but there’s also the simple fact that most ai audio tools are gimmicky and a lot of talented people quit audio and music. What Waves and Sony (Sonnox) were doing in the 90s was revolutionary and often better, cleaner, and more efficient tools than what comes out now. Waves Renaissance vs later and recent Waves makes you wonder wtf happened? Maybe they lost their best minds decades ago? |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 5, 2023 18:49:12 GMT -6
Another question to ask yourself especially when starting as a mixer: how much effort do I want to put usually without compensation to get a project to where it makes everyone happy?
You’re going to get tracks that suck, do you want to be the guy who convinces those that suck to re-cut tracks give direction for that re-tracking that probably deserves a producers credit?
The other biggie is can you tell someone they suck without them hating you? Because that’s a really big part of the job.
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Post by gmichael on Aug 6, 2023 15:31:25 GMT -6
Another question to ask yourself especially when starting as a mixer: how much effort do I want to put usually without compensation to get a project to where it makes everyone happy? You’re going to get tracks that suck, do you want to be the guy who convinces those that suck to re-cut tracks give direction for that re-tracking that probably deserves a producers credit? The other biggie is can you tell someone they suck without them hating you? Because that’s a really big part of the job. Personally, I think you have to be willing to be that person and speak openly in a very constructive manner. Some people just don't have that skill. Take DrBill for example, the manner in which he almost always speaks (in forum speak) it's easy to deduce that the guy could be telling you to f*^% right off and you'd probably look forward to the trip. I am willing to be that guy because I don't operate from a fear base over trying to do the right thing as I see it. If someone leaves over something like that then they were probably always going to leave anyway. I think understanding someone's intentions is really important, perhaps equal to or in part as much as what they are laying on the table as work.
Some of us can read folks pretty quick and have a strong enough relationship with our intuition that we avoid fear based decision making more often than not. But sometimes we just want something and are willing to compromise our own hard and fasts to be a part of something we are drawn to or lured into. Ego and vanity are powerful tools we absolutely need but controlling them and not being controlled by them is an ongoing effort, moreso from some than for others.
As for credits, thats a sticky grey area. Lately I have come across several young "producers" who don't seem to fully understand what that entails and defines and that asking or needing production help is in fact co-producing. If you have to ask or have that conversation I don't think it's worth bruising the fragile ego that consciously ignores the obvious lines crossing. Personally I don't care, I just want my money and the life I have. I have worked on 4 albums that I never got credits for and it does sting a bit to read someone else taking bows for your work but I operate on my terms and control what I can control and not drive myself nuts over what some asshole has chose to do with the control they have.
If you only balance than that's the service you have to stick to and be really clear about the limits of what you are offering for whatever fee you charge. But, I have pulled production work from what was once only a mix job so I listen carefully and listen a lot to what people say in addition to what they are wanting serviced. It's all about relationships and effective efficient communication skills. To me anyhoo. I'm more of a face to face person and I think I do much better talking because often I type as I would talk rather than format for texting or emailing. My passion and excitement don't always translate well via type talking!lol
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Post by drbill on Aug 6, 2023 16:10:22 GMT -6
Take DrBill for example, the manner in which he almost always speaks (in forum speak) it's easy to deduce that the guy could be telling you to f*^% right off and you'd probably look forward to the trip.
Geez.....I sure hope I don't come across that way. 40 years of producing music for TV, Films, Albums, Theme Parks, Live Touring Acts, etc., and dealing with everything from fragile almost broken vocalists, to highly egocentric & driven 100+ member Hollywood orchestras, to artists in mid-divorce with crazed fans, to bands that have no clue, to mega famous engineer / producers who know what they want and expect it instantly, to having a close family member with ADHD and Aspergers on the spectrum - all of those things have all taught me (the hard way I'm afraid) how to say things in a positive way. Or at least a way that will move things closer to a positive reconciliation / resolution. Or at least I think they have.  . I believe they have. Nurturing a more in-depth spiritual perspective about/with God, who you are in the grand scheme of things and who you aren't helps too. Hey...I'm just on the road. I have not reached the destination. I just try to be more positive than negative these days even though I naturally tend to fall on the negative side of center -- but I NEVER, EVER want to give someone the feeling that I'm telling them to "f*^% right off" as you mentioned. And if I have, I'd sure appreciate the opportunity to right that wrong. There's really no place for that. Either here or in our personal lives. IMO of course. Herding a bunch of musicians is hard. Geez, cowboys think herding cattle is rough..... LOL |
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Post by gmichael on Aug 6, 2023 16:44:56 GMT -6
Take DrBill for example, the manner in which he almost always speaks (in forum speak) it's easy to deduce that the guy could be telling you to f*^% right off and you'd probably look forward to the trip.
Geez.....I sure hope I don't come across that way. 40 years of producing music for TV, Films, Albums, Theme Parks, Live Touring Acts, etc., and dealing with everything from fragile almost broken vocalists, to highly egocentric & driven 100+ member Hollywood orchestras, to artists in mid-divorce with crazed fans, to bands that have no clue, to mega famous engineer / producers who know what they want and expect it instantly, to having a close family member with ADHD and Aspergers on the spectrum - all of those things have all taught me (the hard way I'm afraid) how to say things in a positive way. Or at least a way that will move things closer to a positive reconciliation / resolution. Or at least I think they have. . I believe they have. Nurturing a more in-depth spiritual perspective about/with God, who you are in the grand scheme of things and who you aren't helps too. Hey...I'm just on the road. I have not reached the destination. I just try to be more positive than negative these days even though I naturally tend to fall on the negative side of center -- but I NEVER, EVER want to give someone the feeling that I'm telling them to "f*^% right off" as you mentioned. And if I have, I'd sure appreciate the opportunity to right that wrong. There's really no place for that. Either here or in our personal lives. IMO of course. Herding a bunch of musicians is hard. Geez, cowboys think herding cattle is rough..... LOL It was intended as a compliment. Perhaps the term I used wasn't acute to you, it was just a figure of speech meant as a compliment. Of course you would not ever want to leave that impression! I think you come off very positive and the experiences you have had don't have to be bulleted, it translates in how eloquently you speak often. Only experiences can lead to this I think.
And I suppose I identified this attribute because of my own experiences touring and working for big acts very closely. I moved into studio work in 2008, so my studio experiences are much different to yours, but the rest I'm sure we have much in common we could discuss with a degree of understanding others can only speculate about. What I miss out on by the experiences I have lived is it very hard for me to just be a fan anymore, I miss that. Apologies if you felt I painted you inaccurately. I don't need to know your exact experiences and associations to know you have been to the big show!
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 6, 2023 17:39:00 GMT -6
Take DrBill for example, the manner in which he almost always speaks (in forum speak) it's easy to deduce that the guy could be telling you to f*^% right off and you'd probably look forward to the trip.
Geez.....I sure hope I don't come across that way. 40 years of producing music for TV, Films, Albums, Theme Parks, Live Touring Acts, etc., and dealing with everything from fragile almost broken vocalists, to highly egocentric & driven 100+ member Hollywood orchestras, to artists in mid-divorce with crazed fans, to bands that have no clue, to mega famous engineer / producers who know what they want and expect it instantly, to having a close family member with ADHD and Aspergers on the spectrum - all of those things have all taught me (the hard way I'm afraid) how to say things in a positive way. Or at least a way that will move things closer to a positive reconciliation / resolution. Or at least I think they have. . I believe they have. Nurturing a more in-depth spiritual perspective about/with God, who you are in the grand scheme of things and who you aren't helps too. Hey...I'm just on the road. I have not reached the destination. I just try to be more positive than negative these days even though I naturally tend to fall on the negative side of center -- but I NEVER, EVER want to give someone the feeling that I'm telling them to "f*^% right off" as you mentioned. And if I have, I'd sure appreciate the opportunity to right that wrong. There's really no place for that. Either here or in our personal lives. IMO of course. Herding a bunch of musicians is hard. Geez, cowboys think herding cattle is rough..... LOL Hey Bill I think what he is really saying with growth maturity and time we no longer deal with the BS😁.for all the reasons you so gently stated. |
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Post by viciousbliss on Aug 6, 2023 20:22:02 GMT -6
Yeah I didn't have time to get into specifics in my original post but that's exactly what I think. I see it particularly with modern metal, the editing, the triggering and the overall sound has just become so specific and homogenized that a great mixer that's never worked with that genre of music would not be able to just jump into it and make a band happy ( unless maybe he's already specialized in electronica or dubstep where I feel there's a lot of overlap). I once tracked a punk band, one of the guys was friends with a pretty big mixer ( who never mixed punk) and they got a great deal to have him mix the album. The test mix he did was so far off what they wanted that they stopped working with him right away, he'd taken all the agression away from the guitars, and the bass and the hi-hat sounded super smooth, I guess from a purely technical pov it was a good mix but man was it boring and the band hated it, I'm sure with some work he would've been able to do something more to their liking but what's the point when you can find somebody who understands the music and how to mix it. Modern commercial metal (pretty much like a few labels and tech death) is basically not even music anymore. Most of the guys who specialize it can’t mix anything else because they don’t really know how. They just replace everything with samples and reamp everything. Give them a band who wants to record for real and you’ll have the most fucked up recording and idiotic mix decisions imaginable because they’re clueless and have no experience. Same with some big name pop mixers. Some of them are fucking clueless as to what to do with something that has to be left as is or “the same but bigger, louder, better” and doing things like cleaning it up and then adding dirt back in but better is beyond them. Then you have tons of modern hardcore and metal guys with zero fucking idea how to use certain pedals in a tone unlike old death and black metal and shoegaze guys. Anyway enough criticizing guys trying to hustle. This is CLA mixing in flames. They were never that great sounding but this is criminal: For whatever reason, a lot of Metal people have been obsessed with sterility since Pro Tools became more accessible. I remember Mustaine boasting about PT with TWNAH and thinking how it made everything sound worse upon getting that album in 2001. Same with Abigail 2. Like many people, I was hoping for something that sounded more like the first one. Instead King gave us the opposite. Voodoo was the only post-The Eye album that captured the same sorta spirit, sound, and creativity of his Roadrunner stuff. This new CLA mix sounds flat, dull, and way too polite. But at least it's smooth and pretty balanced. That's not what Metal is about though. Ironic that it's a genre where we get the most assembly line, sterile garbage. Pop music often has more creative productions. I'm surprised CLA was so clueless here. He seems to have his methods and tools and just does his CLA sound and that's it. Altars is a record I've never gotten into even after 25 years of trying. I've been continually puzzled as to why so many people love that thing. Leprosy sounds outstanding on its 1st pressings, so it wasn't that the studio wasn't capable of tremendous results back then. Spiritual Healing baffles me almost as badly as Altars. So unnecessarily slow and sludgey sounding, like the opposite of Leprosy. But Human is a masterpiece and the SH songs have a lot of energy in the live videos I've seen. CLAGuitars hasn't been bad for me in reamping. A kid once sent me really badly recorded guitar tracks, so I just asked for a DI and fed that through CLAGuitars and it was a massive improvement. Not perfect or anything, but really good considering the source. Jake from Blood By Design used reamped guitars and computerized drums on his Ancient One album. The attention to detail was so insane that I was surprised when he told me that. The drums kinda remind me of Bloodthirst, they sound like a real person played them, some real inventive fills and patterns. There was this black cone thing he used for recording the vocals, I forget the name. He's buddies with a mastering guy who had some notable credits who mastered the album as a favor. I'm not crazy about the DR5 range rating, but I've heard a lot worse. For my tastes, I far prefer it to this CLA IF mix and the latest Metallica and Megadeth stuff. I'm guessing someone like Jake is an anomaly based on what you've said about a lot of these Metal people recording on their own or with whoever else. Jonjo from Rave in Fire is just as skilled, I still have to find out what he used on that album beyond what was shown on their Youtube channel. These guys did everything themselves and put the time and effort in to pull it off. With more AI we probably won't even have bands because a lot more people will be able to do the sort of one man band thing that Jake pulled off. I'm surprised there are so many bands out there considering how everyone who places musician ads seems to only want to do one very specific thing. GPT4 and the newer AI seem capable of doing more and more complex analysis work. A couple of the white collar places I've worked at have been looking at modeling a person's knowledge and creating sort of AI algorithms off that I've heard from others. Tough to forecast how many years it'll be before AI does incredibly complex creative things. GPT4 was already a huge jump over ChatGPT and Chat could write up some pretty decent hypothetical wrestling storylines. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2023 20:26:01 GMT -6
Modern commercial metal (pretty much like a few labels and tech death) is basically not even music anymore. Most of the guys who specialize it can’t mix anything else because they don’t really know how. They just replace everything with samples and reamp everything. Give them a band who wants to record for real and you’ll have the most fucked up recording and idiotic mix decisions imaginable because they’re clueless and have no experience. Same with some big name pop mixers. Some of them are fucking clueless as to what to do with something that has to be left as is or “the same but bigger, louder, better” and doing things like cleaning it up and then adding dirt back in but better is beyond them. Then you have tons of modern hardcore and metal guys with zero fucking idea how to use certain pedals in a tone unlike old death and black metal and shoegaze guys. Anyway enough criticizing guys trying to hustle. This is CLA mixing in flames. They were never that great sounding but this is criminal: For whatever reason, a lot of Metal people have been obsessed with sterility since Pro Tools became more accessible. I remember Mustaine boasting about PT with TWNAH and thinking how it made everything sound worse upon getting that album in 2001. Same with Abigail 2. Like many people, I was hoping for something that sounded more like the first one. Instead King gave us the opposite. Voodoo was the only post-The Eye album that captured the same sorta spirit, sound, and creativity of his Roadrunner stuff. This new CLA mix sounds flat, dull, and way too polite. But at least it's smooth and pretty balanced. That's not what Metal is about though. Ironic that it's a genre where we get the most assembly line, sterile garbage. Pop music often has more creative productions. I'm surprised CLA was so clueless here. He seems to have his methods and tools and just does his CLA sound and that's it. Altars is a record I've never gotten into even after 25 years of trying. I've been continually puzzled as to why so many people love that thing. Leprosy sounds outstanding on its 1st pressings, so it wasn't that the studio wasn't capable of tremendous results back then. Spiritual Healing baffles me almost as badly as Altars. So unnecessarily slow and sludgey sounding, like the opposite of Leprosy. But Human is a masterpiece and the SH songs have a lot of energy in the live videos I've seen. CLAGuitars hasn't been bad for me in reamping. A kid once sent me really badly recorded guitar tracks, so I just asked for a DI and fed that through CLAGuitars and it was a massive improvement. Not perfect or anything, but really good considering the source. Jake from Blood By Design used reamped guitars and computerized drums on his Ancient One album. The attention to detail was so insane that I was surprised when he told me that. The drums kinda remind me of Bloodthirst, they sound like a real person played them, some real inventive fills and patterns. There was this black cone thing he used for recording the vocals, I forget the name. He's buddies with a mastering guy who had some notable credits who mastered the album as a favor. I'm not crazy about the DR5 range rating, but I've heard a lot worse. For my tastes, I far prefer it to this CLA IF mix and the latest Metallica and Megadeth stuff. I'm guessing someone like Jake is an anomaly based on what you've said about a lot of these Metal people recording on their own or with whoever else. Jonjo from Rave in Fire is just as skilled, I still have to find out what he used on that album beyond what was shown on their Youtube channel. These guys did everything themselves and put the time and effort in to pull it off. With more AI we probably won't even have bands because a lot more people will be able to do the sort of one man band thing that Jake pulled off. I'm surprised there are so many bands out there considering how everyone who places musician ads seems to only want to do one very specific thing. GPT4 and the newer AI seem capable of doing more and more complex analysis work. A couple of the white collar places I've worked at have been looking at modeling a person's knowledge and creating sort of AI algorithms off that I've heard from others. Tough to forecast how many years it'll be before AI does incredibly complex creative things. GPT4 was already a huge jump over ChatGPT and Chat could write up some pretty decent hypothetical wrestling storylines. Put on Altars of Madness in a car and go over 70 mph. If you don't get it, you don't get metal. |
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Post by thehightenor on Aug 7, 2023 5:28:47 GMT -6
Another question to ask yourself especially when starting as a mixer: how much effort do I want to put usually without compensation to get a project to where it makes everyone happy? You’re going to get tracks that suck, do you want to be the guy who convinces those that suck to re-cut tracks give direction for that re-tracking that probably deserves a producers credit? The other biggie is can you tell someone they suck without them hating you? Because that’s a really big part of the job. Ah, the art of serving up a "sh*t sandwich" When you've run bands for as long as I have, it's a skill you soon learn to master! |
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Post by vvvooojjj on Aug 7, 2023 6:01:26 GMT -6
The price of mixing has fallen where I live. Some indies charge 200-250€/mix. And some for daily rates and they mix two songs a day for 200-300€. The quality of course varies, but small artists/bands just don't have money.
Major labels might pay 300-400€/mix for mixing smaller/upcoming artists and 500-600€ for household names. Majors used to pay more around ten years ago or so. I do know one engineer around here who has been getting more for his work. Prices excluding VAT.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2023 7:10:33 GMT -6
For whatever reason, a lot of Metal people have been obsessed with sterility since Pro Tools became more accessible. I remember Mustaine boasting about PT with TWNAH and thinking how it made everything sound worse upon getting that album in 2001. I don't think it's about sterility, more about clean recordings with bags of seperation but to pull that off it takes a lot more than just a DAW. Personally, when I first started recording metal at college I wasn't a massive fan of tape. Sending on that amount of information to the machine (forgot the model) just like a lot ITB compressors or mastering limiters available back in the 90's / 00's caused unbalancing (especially with drums) or at the minimum added too much crap in, so let me just state it. I don't like tape, I don't miss it and I'll take Pro Tools over it any day of the week.
Again back then, I remember fondly that the recordings going through the College's $100K SSL desk and racks of equipment did sound rather hi-fi (even if the performances were sometimes hmm), especially for metal. Although our instructor made us do everything properly, we alway's mic'd kits, amps, everything. Sure it was usually in isolation but if it went wrong the answer was to find out the problem and do it again, after 500+ attempts you start getting used to it. At that time I experimented a lot with MB comps, M/S EQ shifting, part ITB, part HW, Parallel compression, side chaining etc. and of course setting up instruments (amps, tuning drums, piano's etc.) which was a major part but I must admit that desk contributed a lot towards seperation and clarity which made life easier. Later on I found out how to do something similar with UA's Chandler EQ for example but back then either I'd missed some uber plugins or it just wasn't as easy to pull off squarely ITB.
A bit later on for the first time after College I recorded a half orchestra on behalf of a metal band with an actual budget, wow.. This actually put a smile on my face, after a few err mic placement fixes (it'd been a while) the orchestra recording sounded glorious with nothing but faders up. The recording to pro tools certainly wasn't sterile, the arrangement was massive and it had a fair bit more sonic information than you're average 5 piece but ultimately it came down to great players in a great space with some half decent knowledge of mic'ing (well at least my ridculously over priced course paid for itself in that one instance). I did joke that they should just leave the metal out and release this but besides a faint chuckle from the drummer we moved very swiftly on.
I've done bits in EDM, rock, pop, alt and I do appreciate the amount of sonic sculpting that goes into a modern production. Or the amount of fixes that's required because every component is exposed etc. however unless you've worked with metal day in and day out I don't think you quite realise how much of a fight it can be. Then later on it got even worse when sample replacement took over. My usual day would now consist of recieving 5 to 8 midi tracks, opening Superior drummer, opening some synth software, trying to fit in whatever shit guitar tracks and bass they'd sent me (5 string basses & 8 string guitars uhh), opening autotune and trying to do something that doesn't make it sound like generic metal track 82,985,342. Real metal was expensive to make, gruelling and challenging but at least it sounded different.
I honestly can't listen to Superior Drummer for more than 5 minutes at this stage. I just can't.. Although some bands still follow the old ethos or at least try to be creative fortunately, it's just a bit rare. End of the day, now in hindsight I don't think money was the primary reason I gave this up, I could supplement indefinitely. This might put Crille off and sorry if it does, I just stopped enjoying that genre which I did get pigeon holed in to (not enough variation). That doesn't mean I won't record some of my own metal projects but at least I get to choose how that ends.
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Post by thehightenor on Aug 7, 2023 11:44:38 GMT -6
The price of mixing has fallen where I live. Some indies charge 200-250€/mix. And some for daily rates and they mix two songs a day for 200-300€. The quality of course varies, but small artists/bands just don't have money. Major labels might pay 300-400€/mix for mixing smaller/upcoming artists and 500-600€ for household names. Majors used to pay more around ten years ago or so. I do know one engineer around here who has been getting more for his work. Prices excluding VAT. Household names for 600 bucks a song. So Sting/Adel/Coldplay/Imagine Dragons etc only pay $7200 to have their latest album mixed? Doesn't sound right to me, but maybe you're better informed than me. |
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Post by chessparov on Aug 7, 2023 11:53:20 GMT -6
AI's on the way. What's next? Go from Pay To Play... To PAY to Mix?  I do plan to listen to EZ/SD Drummer sooner, to better understand an evaluation of them. Paul's "Greedy Beats" are way cool, any time I've listened IMHO. Chris |
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Post by vvvooojjj on Aug 7, 2023 12:32:33 GMT -6
The price of mixing has fallen where I live. Some indies charge 200-250€/mix. And some for daily rates and they mix two songs a day for 200-300€. The quality of course varies, but small artists/bands just don't have money. Major labels might pay 300-400€/mix for mixing smaller/upcoming artists and 500-600€ for household names. Majors used to pay more around ten years ago or so. I do know one engineer around here who has been getting more for his work. Prices excluding VAT. Household names for 600 bucks a song. So Sting/Adel/Coldplay/Imagine Dragons etc only pay $7200 to have their latest album mixed? Doesn't sound right to me, but maybe you're better informed than me. I'm talking about the prices where I live. And household names of my country. Even though Sweden's, where Christian is based I think, economy is better than where I live I wanted to share this information here as the world is a big place and there's a lot of variation regarding the prices. |
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Post by chessparov on Aug 7, 2023 13:36:29 GMT -6
Further influencing me to create/co-create a Sitcom.*
I'll be changing all your names accordingly.
Christian to Tristan. Eric to Cedric.
Any further resemblance will be purely coincidental.
Except for Han Eppstein of course. 😀
*Last time when I thought I'd help sing on the proposed Netflix(!) TV Show soundtrack...
I ended getting offered the Laugh Track. For a BGV (Backing Giggle Voice) spot yet.
Oh well.
Chris
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Post by mcirish on Aug 7, 2023 14:07:10 GMT -6
The thing I miss with pretty much every genre is originality in the sound. It's gotten to the point where nearly every song in a genre sounds the same as all the other songs in that genre. What made the 60s-70s interesting (to me) was that there was not only originallity in the idea but in the mixing and mastering as well. Not everything sounded the same. Unfortunately, we've regressed to the point that AI might be more interesting, or at least no worse than what is being released.
I'm no one, in the grand scheme, but I do try to give each artist I work with a sound that is theirs. I'm not an audio snob but I do prefer real drums, with all their flaws. The only time I use a sample, is for the odd bad hit. The sample is just another hit from the same kit. I always record single hits on each drum at the end of a song, so I can use them later to fix anything that has an issue. I also prefer real pianos, with their slight tuning issues and inharmonics. It's the real stuff that has life and breath within the track.
The people working with me are doomed. I just can't bring myself to make them sound like everything else. Speaking of which, that reminds me of a meeting I had at BMI about 10 years ago. My songwriting partner and I wanted to get more in to the Nashville scene and wanted to understand what we needed to do for publishers. She played me the typical bro-country tune and asked if I could write 300 of those a year. I could barely keep lunch down listening to it once, much less 300 more times. Needless to say, we didn't get the publishing deals we wanted and we went home and started a band. Seven albums later, we are still no one, but a lot happier for it.
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Post by drbill on Aug 7, 2023 14:14:42 GMT -6
.....Not everything sounded the same. Unfortunately, we've regressed to the point that AI might be more interesting, or at least no worse than what is being released. As far as cookie cutter similarities are concerned, AI will be worse. |
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Post by mcirish on Aug 7, 2023 14:33:27 GMT -6
.....Not everything sounded the same. Unfortunately, we've regressed to the point that AI might be more interesting, or at least no worse than what is being released. As far as cookie cutter similarities are concerned, AI will be worse. I was being puposely facetious on that Bill. :-) I promise if I get famous, I will never be like everyone else and write a hit tune.... oh wait.... hmmmm.... I better rethink this a little... How to become successful without being just like all other successful people. Sounds like a book that should be written. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 7, 2023 15:36:57 GMT -6
The thing I miss with pretty much every genre is originality in the sound. It's gotten to the point where nearly every song in a genre sounds the same as all the other songs in that genre. What made the 60s-70s interesting (to me) was that there was not only originallity in the idea but in the mixing and mastering as well. Not everything sounded the same. Unfortunately, we've regressed to the point that AI might be more interesting, or at least no worse than what is being released. I'm no one, in the grand scheme, but I do try to give each artist I work with a sound that is theirs. I'm not an audio snob but I do prefer real drums, with all their flaws. The only time I use a sample, is for the odd bad hit. The sample is just another hit from the same kit. I always record single hits on each drum at the end of a song, so I can use them later to fix anything that has an issue. I also prefer real pianos, with their slight tuning issues and inharmonics. It's the real stuff that has life and breath within the track. The people working with me are doomed. I just can't bring myself to make them sound like everything else. Speaking of which, that reminds me of a meeting I had at BMI about 10 years ago. My songwriting partner and I wanted to get more in to the Nashville scene and wanted to understand what we needed to do for publishers. She played me the typical bro-country tune and asked if I could write 300 of those a year. I could barely keep lunch down listening to it once, much less 300 more times. Needless to say, we didn't get the publishing deals we wanted and we went home and started a band. Seven albums later, we are still no one, but a lot happier for it. The cookie cutter sound should have been expected with the advent of templates and of course the fact that time is money, ie you pay me next to nothing I’m not putting that much time in. You really do get what you pay for. |
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Post by Ward on Aug 8, 2023 8:48:33 GMT -6
The thing I miss with pretty much every genre is originality in the sound. It's gotten to the point where nearly every song in a genre sounds the same as all the other songs in that genre. What made the 60s-70s interesting (to me) was that there was not only originallity in the idea but in the mixing and mastering as well. Not everything sounded the same. Unfortunately, we've regressed to the point that AI might be more interesting, or at least no worse than what is being released. I'm no one, in the grand scheme, but I do try to give each artist I work with a sound that is theirs. I'm not an audio snob but I do prefer real drums, with all their flaws. The only time I use a sample, is for the odd bad hit. The sample is just another hit from the same kit. I always record single hits on each drum at the end of a song, so I can use them later to fix anything that has an issue. I also prefer real pianos, with their slight tuning issues and inharmonics. It's the real stuff that has life and breath within the track. The people working with me are doomed. I just can't bring myself to make them sound like everything else. Speaking of which, that reminds me of a meeting I had at BMI about 10 years ago. My songwriting partner and I wanted to get more in to the Nashville scene and wanted to understand what we needed to do for publishers. She played me the typical bro-country tune and asked if I could write 300 of those a year. I could barely keep lunch down listening to it once, much less 300 more times. Needless to say, we didn't get the publishing deals we wanted and we went home and started a band. Seven albums later, we are still no one, but a lot happier for it. The cookie cutter sound should have been expected with the advent of templates and of course the fact that time is money, ie you pay me next to nothing I’m not putting that much time in. You really do get what you pay for. There are some highly paid well known mixing engineers out there doing full records in a couple-three hours all within templates, and it all sounds eerily familiar. I don't know if AI could be worse, to be honest. There, I said it. I expect a few "unfriendings" within the hour. |
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Aug 8, 2023 9:03:31 GMT -6
The cookie cutter sound should have been expected with the advent of templates and of course the fact that time is money, ie you pay me next to nothing I’m not putting that much time in. You really do get what you pay for. There are some highly paid well known mixing engineers out there doing full records in a couple-three hours all within templates, and it all sounds eerily familiar. I don't know if AI could be worse, to be honest. There, I said it. I expect a few "unfriendings" within the hour. What you don’t think the first generation of AI mixers will have an “originality toggle?”. |
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Post by Ward on Aug 8, 2023 9:06:59 GMT -6
LOL at ericn is that New Country only option? |
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Aug 8, 2023 9:13:31 GMT -6
LOL at ericn is that New Country only option? If it’s a “yes” to engage it’s progrock😎 |
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Post by Ward on Aug 8, 2023 9:17:34 GMT -6
LOL at ericn is that New Country only option? If it’s a “yes” to engage it’s progrock😎 We've evolved to Progressive Metal, these days. Don't know if anything's up in the Prog-Country category yet. Could be a whole new market just waiting to explode! |
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Post by chessparov on Aug 8, 2023 10:49:30 GMT -6
Sounds like a roundabout way.
Chris
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. I believe they have. Nurturing a more in-depth spiritual perspective about/with God, who you are in the grand scheme of things and who you aren't helps too. Hey...I'm just on the road. I have not reached the destination. I just try to be more positive than negative these days even though I naturally tend to fall on the negative side of center -- but I NEVER, EVER want to give someone the feeling that I'm telling them to "f*^% right off" as you mentioned. And if I have, I'd sure appreciate the opportunity to right that wrong. There's really no place for that. Either here or in our personal lives. IMO of course.
I do plan to listen to EZ/SD Drummer sooner, to better understand an evaluation of them.
