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Post by christophert on Jul 26, 2023 18:12:49 GMT -6
The REDD.51 console and tape machines would have a big impact on the sound. They may have recorded live, but most probably mixed to another tape machine - so two generations of tape. The tube EQ's in the REDD (using V72s) is the extra special sauce that no-one seems to talk about. Both of those tracks were REDD 5.1 and tracked to 4-track tube (J37, I think?) machines. “Blackbird” is only one generation down on the final mixdown. “Rocky” had at least one round of bouncing and overdubs, possibly two. [Edit: the bass and drums were re-recorded after they got the keeper vocal/guitar on take 9, bounced down, and then harmonica, piano, and backing vocals were added to the newly opened tracks.] And yeah, White Album is fascinating because you have that mix of all 4-track and tube-gear recordings like the ones above side by side with 8-track solid state production that were still tracked through the tube desks…except the 8-track ones that were tracked at Trident. They used the EQ's between each tape generation to compensate for HF generation loss & to reduce noise. The REDD EQ's are astonishing - especially the HF cut/boost (I sit in front of / and use a REDD.17 every day) Plus the REDD consoles were still used at Abbey Rd mastering right up to the 1980's - so most likely used again in the mastering. |
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Post by niklas1073 on Jul 27, 2023 0:10:02 GMT -6
As many have mentioned the room and the recording stuation. I would agree with that. Plus the complete chain is rather unanimous thruout the production. I was just yesterday tracking a song, everything is tracked pretty much with thought thru homogeneously chosen hardware and miking. Without the first plugin added itb the sound is already there and everything including vocals sit right where they should, no need to try to blend it in. The beatles played and sang together like a well oiled and tuned machine, that is probably the greatest factor… then the recording chain. Ps. I think that factor of great playing bands recording live in a great studio with a few takes has become a rare thing. You can see a great comeback i think in Nashville rca studio’s for example where these methods are used for amazing productions. They never really stopped doing live tracking in Nashville. Always been at least a 5 piece and later overdubs since I’ve been here. I suppose Nashville has always been a place of its own in that sense. And of course live trackings have been done globally all the time, not denying that. It was more the overall recording method and production techniques I was thinking about. Everything from writing to recording. What for example Dave Cobb is putting out since taking over rca is exceptional i’d say. The whole procedure resemblance quite a bit the procedure of Beatles at abbey road when looking at documentaries and interviews. And tracking live can be done in so many ways. But it takes an exceptional band to lay down the track in an open room with vocals included, playing with bleeds to your advantage etc. Thinking of some of the Rival Sons albums he produced for example. All and all I can instantly hear his productions due to all this. Have come across many bands I didn’t know, just heard a track and knew immediately by whom it was produced and where it was done. |
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Post by timcampbell on Jul 27, 2023 13:58:03 GMT -6
The microphone is a KM56 and I can tell you they are magical all by themselves. They sound incredible on anything. On Let It Be and Abbey Road a lot of the vocals are recorded on AKG C30's (C28 w/ extension tube)
You think the final vocal was on a 56? Wouldn’t shock me if he played and sang it at the same time. That would put a dent into some of my 47/48 worship lol. Cyndi Lauper records all her lead vocals on a KM56. They are a great vocal mic and probably the best acoustic mic ever. |
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Post by spock on Jul 27, 2023 14:47:37 GMT -6
I've always felt the KM56 was amazing and almost like miniature U47; I absolutely adored that mic! I wish Neumann would/could bring it back to life, however the little drum like capsule and the AC701K tube, I fear would be non-starters.
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Post by notneeson on Jul 27, 2023 16:43:31 GMT -6
KM84 can be great on vocals.
Peluso mics don’t seem to get a lot of love on forums, but someone I know to be a killer AE told me they’re a fan of his tube SDC.
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Post by chessparov on Jul 27, 2023 17:34:49 GMT -6
You think the final vocal was on a 56? Wouldn’t shock me if he played and sang it at the same time. That would put a dent into some of my 47/48 worship lol. Cyndi Lauper records all her lead vocals on a KM56. They are a great vocal mic and probably the best acoustic mic ever. IIRC 47 FET also. She has a terrific voice. Maybe just earlier times... Chris |
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Post by Ward on Jul 27, 2023 17:45:58 GMT -6
I've always felt the KM56 was amazing and almost like miniature U47; I absolutely adored that mic! I wish Neumann would/could bring it back to life, however the little drum like capsule and the AC701K tube, I fear would be non-starters. My lowly Neumann-Gefell M582 sounds eerily similar to many KM54s, but the 56 (like the 86) has a strange magic! |
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Post by Ward on Jul 27, 2023 17:47:22 GMT -6
KM84 can be great on vocals. Peluso mics don’t seem to get a lot of love on forums, but someone I know to be a killer AE told me they’re a fan of his tube SDC. Lima, the KM56 is in another league when it comes to vocals! It is magic. That same strange magic the KM56 has. |
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Post by chessparov on Jul 27, 2023 20:24:18 GMT -6
You think the final vocal was on a 56? Wouldn’t shock me if he played and sang it at the same time. That would put a dent into some of my 47/48 worship lol. Cyndi Lauper records all her lead vocals on a KM56. Time after time?  Chris |
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Post by chessparov on Jul 27, 2023 20:32:01 GMT -6
Cyndi Lauper records all her lead vocals on a KM56. They are a great vocal mic and probably the best acoustic mic ever. IIRC 47 FET also. She has a terrific voice. Maybe just earlier times... Chris I was mistaken for it ever being a 47 FET, I suppose. Cyndi used a U47 Tube for the... "She's So Unusual" hit Album. Per William Wittman. In 1983. Wow 40 years ago this October! Chris |
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Post by Omicron9 on Jul 28, 2023 11:01:48 GMT -6
Does anyone make nickel capsule mic anymore? The Gefell M-29x series are nickel diaphragms. If you've never experienced them, they are very special mics; I've never heard that kind of detail anywhere else. -09 |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 28, 2023 11:26:56 GMT -6
I'm gonna say something incredibly contrary here, but it's really just a question. First, I do think the combination of the studio sound, the great mics, the signal chain and of course the immense talent made those recordings something special. I've heard one vintage Neumann U67 that sounded so good it was shocking, much like John's earlier description. It made me a better singer. The Chandler REDD47 came very close to that.
All that said, I was at a friends apartment in a little untreated recording room around 5 years ago . He had a cheap Focusrite interface. He'd done quite a bit of work on an album he was making, and I was helping him dial in the mix a little better. At some point I commented something like "this sounds like a Beatles track, like it was done in Abbey Road". It wasn't musically Beatlesque, it sounded like their sound. It turned out there wss a button on that interface for a Beatles setting, (or Abbey Road setting, I forget). Since I had no clue there was any kind of tone setting on the Focusrite, it was a shock to me that I could detect that sound.
So, how is it that Focusrite managed to get something recognizably "Abbey Road-ish" on a cheap preamp. It surely wasn't the mics, the room, or the performance.
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Post by chessparov on Jul 28, 2023 11:43:45 GMT -6
We can work it out MJB. And "strange magic"? ELO! Chris |
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Post by Ward on Jul 28, 2023 12:27:01 GMT -6
We can work it out MJB. And "strange magic"? ELO! Chris I made several references to that song that day, hoping you would pick up on one of them . . . and maybe drop me a telephone line as it's been a minute, and you're Faro out, man! |
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Post by chessparov on Jul 28, 2023 12:32:05 GMT -6
I hope that's not a lot of...
"Blue Sky" Mister.
Thanks Ward-Just kidding.
I know you... don't let me down.
Chris
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Post by theshea on Jul 28, 2023 12:38:17 GMT -6
I'm gonna say something incredibly contrary here, but it's really just a question. First, I do think the combination of the studio sound, the great mics, the signal chain and of course the immense talent made those recordings something special. I've heard one vintage Neumann U67 that sounded so good it was shocking, much like John's earlier description. It made me a better singer. The Chandler REDD47 came very close to that. All that said, I was at a friends apartment in a little untreated recording room around 5 years ago . He had a cheap Focusrite interface. He'd done quite a bit of work on an album he was making, and I was helping him dial in the mix a little better. At some point I commented something like "this sounds like a Beatles track, like it was done in Abbey Road". It wasn't musically Beatlesque, it sounded like their sound. It turned out there wss a button on that interface for a Beatles setting, (or Abbey Road setting, I forget). Since I had no clue there was any kind of tone setting on the Focusrite, it was a shock to me that I could detect that sound. So, how is it that Focusrite managed to get something recognizably "Abbey Road-ish" on a cheap preamp. It surely wasn't the mics, the room, or the performance. what focusrite and what button?! |
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Post by chessparov on Jul 28, 2023 12:45:35 GMT -6
The red one?
Chris
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Post by spock on Jul 28, 2023 12:49:20 GMT -6
I'm gonna say something incredibly contrary here, but it's really just a question. First, I do think the combination of the studio sound, the great mics, the signal chain and of course the immense talent made those recordings something special. I've heard one vintage Neumann U67 that sounded so good it was shocking, much like John's earlier description. It made me a better singer. The Chandler REDD47 came very close to that. All that said, I was at a friends apartment in a little untreated recording room around 5 years ago . He had a cheap Focusrite interface. He'd done quite a bit of work on an album he was making, and I was helping him dial in the mix a little better. At some point I commented something like "this sounds like a Beatles track, like it was done in Abbey Road". It wasn't musically Beatlesque, it sounded like their sound. It turned out there wss a button on that interface for a Beatles setting, (or Abbey Road setting, I forget). Since I had no clue there was any kind of tone setting on the Focusrite, it was a shock to me that I could detect that sound. So, how is it that Focusrite managed to get something recognizably "Abbey Road-ish" on a cheap preamp. It surely wasn't the mics, the room, or the performance. what focusrite and what button?! interesting....apparently Focusrite had modeled our Chandler Limited EMI Abbey Road Studios TG Channel for their Liquid Mix as part of its preset library. |
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Post by Ward on Jul 28, 2023 14:21:05 GMT -6
what focusrite and what button?! interesting....apparently Focusrite had modeled our Chandler Limited EMI Abbey Road Studios TG Channel for their Liquid Mix as part of its preset library. Now THAT is truly interesting! |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 28, 2023 14:39:27 GMT -6
theshea said "what focusrite and what button?! No idea, but it wasn't the top of the line, and not the very small one either. |
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Post by antbar on Jul 28, 2023 15:27:28 GMT -6
theshea said "what focusrite and what button?! No idea, but it wasn't the top of the line, and not the very small one either. Sure it wasn't the AIR button? (My attempt at a Focusrite/George Martin joke, just to clarify.) |
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Post by chessparov on Jul 28, 2023 16:05:00 GMT -6
It's too bad Joe Meek beat them to the punch, with all their green painted gear. If only Focusrite did it first. It would have been... Sublime. Chris |
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Post by drumsound on Jul 28, 2023 20:36:37 GMT -6
Does anyone make nickel capsule mic anymore? The Gefell M-29x series are nickel diaphragms. If you've never experienced them, they are very special mics; I've never heard that kind of detail anywhere else. -09 That's right. I have @gwlee's on loan and it is special!  |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 28, 2023 22:50:55 GMT -6
No idea, but it wasn't the top of the line, and not the very small one either. Sure it wasn't the AIR button? (My attempt at a Focusrite/George Martin joke, just to clarify.) No, there was something specific about Abbey Road. Sorry I'm short on details, it was a long time ago and I didn't look closely into it. |
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Post by theshea on Jul 29, 2023 1:02:59 GMT -6
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