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Post by OtisGreying on Jul 25, 2023 16:45:37 GMT -6
Blackbird, Rocky Raccoon,
the vocals sound completely dry yet sound very glued with the whole record - do you guys have any recommendations/practices for this? I find I continue to reach for reverbs to try and gel an acoustic and dry vocal together to sound record-like, which ends up working somewhat but at the cost of not getting that dry upfront sound I want. I wonder if they’re are ANY effects on Paul’s vocals at all in those records or if it is just barebones dry with whatever bleed from the guitar mic.
Does same preamp same tape machine on guitar and vocal mic make a significant difference in this scenario as well? Any thoughts are appreciated.
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Post by drumsound on Jul 25, 2023 16:56:50 GMT -6
I think it's tied to the capture, the space, and the player first. I don't that the space is very bright or open, he was probably surrounded by gobos.
Figure 8 with the guitar in the null for the vocal is really helpful if you want the vocal to be right there, front and center. Another on guitar is nice, but if you want stereo, an XY where the bleed from the voice sounds good works really well.
Pay attention to how the player is sitting and move the mics to them.
Then...don't add reverb/
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Post by craigmorris74 on Jul 25, 2023 17:50:03 GMT -6
From what I’ve always understand about their recording setups, I’m guessing it was something pretty simple.
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Jul 25, 2023 18:09:22 GMT -6
Abbey Road is big too so little or no early reflections and it has large moveable dampening panels, so you can I guess dial in whatever degree of natural ambiance you want ?
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Post by bossanova on Jul 25, 2023 18:41:53 GMT -6
I’ve always heard that it’s the wonderful natural ambiance of Abbey Road studio 2. Someone once described it as a “halo”.
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Post by antbar on Jul 25, 2023 20:02:15 GMT -6
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 25, 2023 20:59:19 GMT -6
Blackbird, Rocky Raccoon, the vocals sound completely dry yet sound very glued with the whole record - do you guys have any recommendations/practices for this? I find I continue to reach for reverbs to try and gel an acoustic and dry vocal together to sound record-like, which ends up working somewhat but at the cost of not getting that dry upfront sound I want. I wonder if they’re are ANY effects on Paul’s vocals at all in those records or if it is just barebones dry with whatever bleed from the guitar mic. Does same preamp same tape machine on guitar and vocal mic make a significant difference in this scenario as well? Any thoughts are appreciated. I’m finding this is rising up my “favorite Beatles record” list. Julia kills me.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 25, 2023 23:03:43 GMT -6
The lore is always u48’s with the Beatles vocals. Makes me wonder if that’s truly the case after seeing that. I’m sure that was nowhere near any sort of real final take.
Anyway - whatever mics we’re used on stuff like Blackbird and earlier Eleanor Rigby, etc. just defines what I think old 47’s/8’s should sound like. It’s the most gorgeous midrange and not an ounce of sibilance. None. It’s the sound you hear when someone’s right in front of you. Obviously, so much of the allure is from the band, the singer, the song etc…but as far as capturing the performance, that (what I think is) Neumann is the perfect sound. It’s not modern hi-if like we’re hearing in the 24bit world…but again it’s the richness of the midrange. I’ve never been able to duplicate it.
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Post by theshea on Jul 26, 2023 2:29:31 GMT -6
yeah its the room, leakage/bleed, mics a combination. and it got compressed while recording so the ambience got up in volume. just record yourself playing the guitar and singing together in a nice room (dry one) and compress the mics on the way in. will sound like a record with dry (though a bit of healthy dose of ambience) vocals.
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Post by niklas1073 on Jul 26, 2023 2:41:02 GMT -6
As many have mentioned the room and the recording stuation. I would agree with that. Plus the complete chain is rather unanimous thruout the production. I was just yesterday tracking a song, everything is tracked pretty much with thought thru homogeneously chosen hardware and miking. Without the first plugin added itb the sound is already there and everything including vocals sit right where they should, no need to try to blend it in. The beatles played and sang together like a well oiled and tuned machine, that is probably the greatest factor… then the recording chain.
Ps. I think that factor of great playing bands recording live in a great studio with a few takes has become a rare thing. You can see a great comeback i think in Nashville rca studio’s for example where these methods are used for amazing productions.
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Post by Ward on Jul 26, 2023 6:03:54 GMT -6
The microphone on Paul's vocal is a Neumann KM56? or 66? (it's early and I'm on holidays)
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Post by craigmorris74 on Jul 26, 2023 9:04:33 GMT -6
The microphone on Paul's vocal is a Neumann KM56? or 66? (it's early and I'm on holidays) That’s what it looks like, and according to the engineers that worked there, was frequently used in situations like this.
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Post by damoongo on Jul 26, 2023 9:51:52 GMT -6
The microphone on Paul's vocal is a Neumann KM56? or 66? (it's early and I'm on holidays) KM56 (Probably km56c). Small diaphragm, multi pattern (probably in fig 8 on this track) and a nickel diaphragm. Pretty special sound. Love them on most stringed instruments too...
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Post by drumsound on Jul 26, 2023 11:33:55 GMT -6
Does anyone make nickel capsule mic anymore?
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Post by chessparov on Jul 26, 2023 12:23:14 GMT -6
Other than 5 cent Chinese ones? ... I just checked Recording Hacks, and they have a long list of them there. Just perfect for Penny Lane! Chris
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Post by timcampbell on Jul 26, 2023 14:08:57 GMT -6
The microphone is a KM56 and I can tell you they are magical all by themselves. They sound incredible on anything.
On Let It Be and Abbey Road a lot of the vocals are recorded on AKG C30's (C28 w/ extension tube)
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 26, 2023 14:51:23 GMT -6
As many have mentioned the room and the recording stuation. I would agree with that. Plus the complete chain is rather unanimous thruout the production. I was just yesterday tracking a song, everything is tracked pretty much with thought thru homogeneously chosen hardware and miking. Without the first plugin added itb the sound is already there and everything including vocals sit right where they should, no need to try to blend it in. The beatles played and sang together like a well oiled and tuned machine, that is probably the greatest factor… then the recording chain. Ps. I think that factor of great playing bands recording live in a great studio with a few takes has become a rare thing. You can see a great comeback i think in Nashville rca studio’s for example where these methods are used for amazing productions. They never really stopped doing live tracking in Nashville. Always been at least a 5 piece and later overdubs since I’ve been here.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 26, 2023 14:52:56 GMT -6
The microphone is a KM56 and I can tell you they are magical all by themselves. They sound incredible on anything. On Let It Be and Abbey Road a lot of the vocals are recorded on AKG C30's (C28 w/ extension tube)
You think the final vocal was on a 56? Wouldn’t shock me if he played and sang it at the same time. That would put a dent into some of my 47/48 worship lol.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jul 26, 2023 15:52:25 GMT -6
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Post by ericn on Jul 26, 2023 16:10:48 GMT -6
The microphone is a KM56 and I can tell you they are magical all by themselves. They sound incredible on anything. On Let It Be and Abbey Road a lot of the vocals are recorded on AKG C30's (C28 w/ extension tube)
You think the final vocal was on a 56? Wouldn’t shock me if he played and sang it at the same time. That would put a dent into some of my 47/48 worship lol. But a very small diameter dent😎
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Post by bossanova on Jul 26, 2023 16:15:33 GMT -6
The microphone is a KM56 and I can tell you they are magical all by themselves. They sound incredible on anything. On Let It Be and Abbey Road a lot of the vocals are recorded on AKG C30's (C28 w/ extension tube)
You think the final vocal was on a 56? Wouldn’t shock me if he played and sang it at the same time. That would put a dent into some of my 47/48 worship lol. I know "Rocky" was live vocals off the floor with acoustic and whatever the other basics were. I'm guessing that was the case for this one too. I can check my Beatles sessions for Blackbird in a little bit if someone else doesn't do it first
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Post by bossanova on Jul 26, 2023 16:39:56 GMT -6
^ Confirmed. “Blackbird” was 1 day, 32 takes, vocal and guitar together live, no bounces. “Rocky” was live vocal/acoustic, drums, and bass (John) for the basic.
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Post by christophert on Jul 26, 2023 17:01:50 GMT -6
The REDD.51 console and tape machines would have a big impact on the sound. They may have recorded live, but most probably mixed to another tape machine - so two generations of tape. The tube EQ's in the REDD (using V72s) is the extra special sauce that no-one seems to talk about.
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Post by bossanova on Jul 26, 2023 17:13:46 GMT -6
The REDD.51 console and tape machines would have a big impact on the sound. They may have recorded live, but most probably mixed to another tape machine - so two generations of tape. The tube EQ's in the REDD (using V72s) is the extra special sauce that no-one seems to talk about. Both of those tracks were REDD 5.1 and tracked to 4-track tube (J37, I think?) machines. “Blackbird” is only one generation down on the final mixdown. “Rocky” had at least one round of bouncing and overdubs, possibly two. [Edit: the bass and drums were re-recorded after they got the keeper vocal/guitar on take 9, bounced down, and then harmonica, piano, and backing vocals were added to the newly opened tracks.] And yeah, White Album is fascinating because you have that mix of all 4-track and tube-gear recordings like the ones above side by side with 8-track solid state production that were still tracked through the tube desks…except the 8-track ones that were tracked at Trident.
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Post by spock on Jul 26, 2023 17:44:24 GMT -6
I’ve always heard that it’s the wonderful natural ambiance of Abbey Road studio 2. Someone once described it as a “halo”. I've been in there and can tell you...just from the acoustics in Studio Two, while standing there, your ears immediately hear those records; you can't help but go...ah....there it is, the experience is visceral. ...the room is the most overlooked piece of the sound of the performance capture.
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