|
Post by Johnkenn on Jul 3, 2014 20:09:47 GMT -6
So - someone mentioned notch EQ points...I'm gonna play around with that more - notching out the entire offending freq with a tiny Q...
|
|
|
MK-U47
Jul 3, 2014 20:26:46 GMT -6
Post by svart on Jul 3, 2014 20:26:46 GMT -6
Yeah, that's what I do more often than not. Usually not more than 3-4db of cut. More than that will sound good in solo but in the mix it'll sound strange.
|
|
|
MK-U47
Jul 3, 2014 20:31:11 GMT -6
Post by Ward on Jul 3, 2014 20:31:11 GMT -6
900hz is where nasaliness lives.
|
|
|
MK-U47
Jul 3, 2014 20:40:39 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by kcatthedog on Jul 3, 2014 20:40:39 GMT -6
Less is more, certainly agree with the learn to use the gear you got point ! Ironically, I built my c12 clone and purchased the 47 kit to be the basis of my quality mike collection and have afforded this by selling off other mikes I do not use so much now. So i guess rationalised GAS ?
|
|
|
MK-U47
Jul 3, 2014 21:03:29 GMT -6
Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 3, 2014 21:03:29 GMT -6
Your perfectly valid point is taken Svart, but I do think that sometimes the particular phase someone is in at the moment colors their remarks, and they might feel differently at another time.
When I was producing music for commercials I used top studios for the bigger jobs, and my home studio for smaller commercials. Since it was being used for broadcast material, I bought the first tier of professional gear. Expensive at the time, a U87 was my main mic. I went through something similar to what you're describing, maximizing a minimal, but good quality recording situation. I had one or two of everything I needed, and I never felt that I was lacking with the U87, it sounded good on everything, and I must have done 100 commercials that were broadcast, all done from my apartment, almost all done with the U87. I sold everything and left the music business, vowing never to record at home again, it was only my wife's encouragement two years ago that got me back into it.
That experience of making the most out of a good quality, but bone simple studio served me well, and it's helped me to make the most of an even simpler setup now, except for plugins giving me a world of options I've yet to master. That said, I never forgotten how wonderful it was recording in major studios, the exciting atmosphere of a great sounding room, the tone of a vintage mic like a C12, the sound of an SSL, API, Neve or Trident board, incredible outboard, reel to reels, etc. I'm now trying to reach a middle ground between the two opposites. I'd like things like a Burl B2, a Bricasti reverb, maybe a C12 or a U67, a Sta Level, a good summing mixer or a real board, a couple of good alternate mics like a ribbon and a K84. None of these things come close to the firepower of a top studio, but they're a lot closer than I ever thought I could get on a budget, and the judicious use of plug ins bridges the gap nicely.
One of the great things about this forum is I can gain some insight thanks to guys like Tony, and so many others, who've been there and done that with DIY mics and mods, and perhaps avoid some of the mistakes I might have made otherwise.
|
|
|
MK-U47
Jul 3, 2014 21:30:34 GMT -6
Post by tonycamphd on Jul 3, 2014 21:30:34 GMT -6
svart i try not to use eq and compression at all if i can help it, to me it's all about the performance, room, source, mic choice, eq through placement, and obsessing on phase coherency(which gets smeared the moment you turn an eq +- knob). Also the reality is I don't do a lot of modding, i build a lot of great diy gear from kits or from proven plans primarily, i'm not even close to being in the vicinity of your level of electronics know how, that's why Jim Williams takes care of the real stuff, i'm an audio electronics nobody. I'm sorry your mods didn't work out for you, but for me, i've had great success and provable results with blind testing comparing stock to modded gear. I usually buy more than one piece of the same gear, and so far in my tests, the JW Dbx 166s, the JW aphex 651s, the JW lexicon lxp15s, self modded ribbon mics, self modded oktava mics, self modded rode k2 mics, JW rode nt2 mics, and my JW Soundcraft Delta 200 have absolutely CRUSHED the stockers every time(blinds carried out by myself and my musofriends), none of it was even close man, one pass and it was usually laughter. So honestly, my ego has nothing to do with it or the following, it's dead and buried in the backyard, i'm just tired of the naysaying, and as soon as it's possible for me, i'm going to post a track of complete diy/mod chain, and a stock chain. The stock chain through a stock Delta200 channel strip, and the modded through a JW modded strip, both direct out(too bad i don't have a stock 2 buss to dump out of, or it would even be more absurd than it's already going to be.. maybe JW has an unmodded one i can borrow?), into a modded BLA FM002 and a stock 002. I will do this in an effort to shut down the whole "mods don't work" narrative once and for all. Yeah, thats what i'm saying, i'm going to single handedly shut down the nay saying, if this sounds cocky? good, because i'm utterly confident, and totally sick of peeps telling me i'm not hearing what i'm hearing, the proof is in the pudding, i did it once with the DIY mics, and i'll do it again with this stuff, it will be easy, plus i love putting my money where my mouth is(instead of my foot 8), and hopefully this time, proving the value of all these small things will be enough to stop the naysaying for good. Now please lets get back on topic and talk about MK47's, maybe another thread should be started called the "this is good enough" thread, everyone can talk about how improving your gear doesn't matter, and we'll get this guy to moderate it lol
|
|
|
MK-U47
Jul 3, 2014 21:40:35 GMT -6
Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 3, 2014 21:40:35 GMT -6
Earlier I asked if anyone knew of some good sounding examples where a U47 was used. I think Sinatra used a wide variety of mics, but thanks Kcat. I believe the Beatles used U47's or am I wrong? What I'd like to hear is a track or two where the vocal is out front, like a Lyle Lovett track or a Ryan Adams track, or even someone like Dierks Bentley.
|
|
|
MK-U47
Jul 3, 2014 21:47:31 GMT -6
Post by tonycamphd on Jul 3, 2014 21:47:31 GMT -6
Earlier I asked if anyone knew of some good sounding examples where a U47 was used. I think Sinatra used a wide variety of mics, but thanks Kcat. I believe the Beatles used U47's or am I wrong? What I'd like to hear is a track or two where the vocal is out front, like a Lyle Lovett track or a Ryan Adams track, or even someone like Dierks Bentley. to my knowledge, the beatles used U47's modded to be U48's with figure of 8 pattern instead of omni?? ... pretty sure this is right...anyone know for sure?
|
|
|
MK-U47
Jul 3, 2014 22:00:14 GMT -6
Post by tonycamphd on Jul 3, 2014 22:00:14 GMT -6
BTW, only 6 more MK47 kits available! he sold 19 in a couple days!, thats like .... $24K sold in mics, not bad work if you can get it!
|
|
|
Post by watchtower on Jul 3, 2014 22:14:20 GMT -6
I am saying the following in the hopes of inciting some discussion, not to be derogatory towards the MK47...
I am not a tubes expert, or even an electronics expert, but I have never been particularly convinced that parallel 408a tubes is "closer in sound" to a VF14 than for example a Telefunken EF800. From what I understand, the EF80x family actually shares a lineage with the EF14 and VF14. Sure the parallel 408a allows you to heat the tubes from the B+ like the U47 instead of having a dedicated heater conductor and modified cable connector, but I'm not sure how much of an effect that has on sound (if any at all). I would love to compare the electronic circuits side by side with identical capsules and transformers. Again, I am far from an expert on this subject, but I will say I have done FAR MORE than my fair share of research on the whole VF14 topic. My opinion is based on hundreds of posts I've read from Neumann/Telefunken experts, which of course pales to first-hand experience. My point is only that this is the opinion I've come to after literally years of research. I don't know anyone who has compared an MK47 to a real U47, whereas I have heard opinions of direct comparisons involving an EF80. I personally use an EF802 in my U47 clone. It just makes sense to me why it would be a good VF14 replacement. (You can underheat it and adjust the plate voltage to get to a similar output impedance to the VF14).
Opinions?
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on Jul 3, 2014 23:45:04 GMT -6
I am saying the following in the hopes of inciting some discussion, not to be derogatory towards the MK47... I am not a tubes expert, or even an electronics expert, but I have never been particularly convinced that parallel 408a tubes is "closer in sound" to a VF14 than for example a Telefunken EF800. From what I understand, the EF80x family actually shares a lineage with the EF14 and VF14. Sure the parallel 408a allows you to heat the tubes from the B+ like the U47 instead of having a dedicated heater conductor and modified cable connector, but I'm not sure how much of an effect that has on sound (if any at all). I would love to compare the electronic circuits side by side with identical capsules and transformers. Again, I am far from an expert on this subject, but I will say I have done FAR MORE than my fair share of research on the whole VF14 topic. My opinion is based on hundreds of posts I've read from Neumann/Telefunken experts, which of course pales to first-hand experience. My point is only that this is the opinion I've come to after literally years of research. I don't know anyone who has compared an MK47 to a real U47, whereas I have heard opinions of direct comparisons involving an EF80. I personally use an EF802 in my U47 clone. It just makes sense to me why it would be a good VF14 replacement. (You can underheat it and adjust the plate voltage to get to a similar output impedance to the VF14). Opinions? I hope to be sending my 2nd MK47 to shannon at mic rehab for an M7 installation, it should be very interesting to get his take on this mic, he knows what a real U47 sounds like about as good as anyone i would think, maybe we can get him to chime in on it when he's done..?
|
|
|
MK-U47
Jul 4, 2014 6:10:36 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 4, 2014 6:10:36 GMT -6
I don't know if it was breakin time or my ears adjusting, but my Thiersch M7 didn't sound so great to me the first few times I used it, now, it knocks me out what it can do. It handles sobilance and pops wayyy better, and has more body. It also sounds good from a wider angle and varying distances. Previously, small off angle movements and distance changing off mic were far more apparent.
Do capsules breakin?
In general, if something moves, it might need breakin time.
|
|
|
MK-U47
Jul 4, 2014 6:43:27 GMT -6
Post by cowboycoalminer on Jul 4, 2014 6:43:27 GMT -6
So - someone mentioned notch EQ points...I'm gonna play around with that more - notching out the entire offending freq with a tiny Q... I do this on everything in the final mix and it really helps. No one mic is perfect through an entire song and songs change keys so that means the frequency pallet changes from song to song. Notch filtering is critical for the best result IMO.
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on Jul 4, 2014 8:52:08 GMT -6
I don't know if it was breakin time or my ears adjusting, but my Thiersch M7 didn't sound so great to me the first few times I used it, now, it knocks me out what it can do. It handles sobilance and pops wayyy better, and has more body. It also sounds good from a wider angle and varying distances. Previously, small off angle movements and distance changing off mic were far more apparent. Do capsules breakin? In general, if something moves, it might need breakin time. Yes Martin, mics definitely need a break in period, circuit, tubes and capsule ime. I usually put a newly built mic in front of a speaker with I tunes on random play for days.
|
|
|
MK-U47
Jul 4, 2014 8:56:50 GMT -6
Post by kidvybes on Jul 4, 2014 8:56:50 GMT -6
I am saying the following in the hopes of inciting some discussion, not to be derogatory towards the MK47... I am not a tubes expert, or even an electronics expert, but I have never been particularly convinced that parallel 408a tubes is "closer in sound" to a VF14 than for example a Telefunken EF800. From what I understand, the EF80x family actually shares a lineage with the EF14 and VF14. ...I have to say, that prior to seeing the dual-tube configuration, I had also read comments (from respected sources) in various forums that the EF80/EF800 series of tube variants was considered to be a very viable option for recreating the classic 47 circuit...Oliver Archut has been an advocate as well as Dave Pearlman (I believe David Bock and Wunder also use the EF800 as an alternate option as well)... ...just recently Dany Bouchard (Poctop on the GroupDIY forum) has announced the upcoming addition of a new "EF800 U47 PCB" set to his www.vintagemicrophonepcbkit.com site...based on sample EF800 and EF802 tubes supplied by Oliver Archut, Dany configured this new set of alternate U47 PCBs...here are the particulars: EF800-EF80-EF802 D-47 with AMI T47 and Classic BV08 from AMI support. Reed relay for True Omni switching from the psu rocker switch. Appropriate PSU PCB included with board set. Attachments:
|
|
|
MK-U47
Jul 4, 2014 9:23:19 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by jcoutu1 on Jul 4, 2014 9:23:19 GMT -6
I am saying the following in the hopes of inciting some discussion, not to be derogatory towards the MK47... I am not a tubes expert, or even an electronics expert, but I have never been particularly convinced that parallel 408a tubes is "closer in sound" to a VF14 than for example a Telefunken EF800. From what I understand, the EF80x family actually shares a lineage with the EF14 and VF14. ...I have to say, that prior to seeing the dual-tube configuration, I had also read comments (from respected sources) in various forums that the EF80/EF800 series of tube variants was considered to be a very viable option for recreating the classic 47 circuit...Oliver Archut has been an advocate as well as Dave Pearlman (I believe David Bock and Wunder also use the EF800 as an alternate option as well)... ...just recently Dany Bouchard (Poctop on the GroupDIY forum) has announced the upcoming addition of a new "EF800 U47 PCB" set to his www.vintagemicrophonepcbkit.com site...based on sample EF800 and EF802 tubes supplied by Oliver Archut, Dany configured this new set of alternate U47 PCBs...here are the particulars: EF800-EF80-EF802 D-47 with AMI T47 and Classic BV08 from AMI support. Reed relay for True Omni switching from the psu rocker switch. Appropriate PSU PCB included with board set. CV4 uses this tube too right?
|
|
|
MK-U47
Jul 4, 2014 9:28:39 GMT -6
Post by kidvybes on Jul 4, 2014 9:28:39 GMT -6
...I have to say, that prior to seeing the dual-tube configuration, I had also read comments (from respected sources) in various forums that the EF80/EF800 series of tube variants was considered to be a very viable option for recreating the classic 47 circuit...Oliver Archut has been an advocate as well as Dave Pearlman (I believe David Bock and Wunder also use the EF800 as an alternate option as well)... ...just recently Dany Bouchard (Poctop on the GroupDIY forum) has announced the upcoming addition of a new "EF800 U47 PCB" set to his www.vintagemicrophonepcbkit.com site...based on sample EF800 and EF802 tubes supplied by Oliver Archut, Dany configured this new set of alternate U47 PCBs...here are the particulars: EF800-EF80-EF802 D-47 with AMI T47 and Classic BV08 from AMI support. Reed relay for True Omni switching from the psu rocker switch. Appropriate PSU PCB included with board set. CV4 uses this tube too right? ...yes, as per Oliver Archut's recommendation...the CV4 also employs one of Oliver's BV8 transformer designs...
|
|
|
MK-U47
Jul 4, 2014 9:33:05 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by jcoutu1 on Jul 4, 2014 9:33:05 GMT -6
CV4 uses this tube too right? ...yes, as per Oliver Archut's recommendation...the CV4 also employs one of Oliver's BV8 transformer designs... Anyone ever stick a different capsule in a CV4 (other than the Shannon mod)? One of the BeesNeez 47's or something? One of you DIY guys perhaps? Shannons mod is too rich for my blood, but a DIY capsule swap should be easy enough right?
|
|
|
MK-U47
Jul 4, 2014 9:33:32 GMT -6
Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 4, 2014 9:33:32 GMT -6
Thanks Tony. I figured breaking was a typical thing when it comes to mics, but needed some corroboration.
That's cool kidvybes.
Do those parts change the game for the DIY build here?
|
|
|
MK-U47
Jul 4, 2014 9:53:59 GMT -6
Post by kidvybes on Jul 4, 2014 9:53:59 GMT -6
That's cool kidvybes. Do those parts change the game for the DIY build here? ...not at all, IMHO...Dany Bouchard has been collaborating with Oliver in order to offer alternate PCB options for the AMI series of classic mic kits...(of course, there was the incident where Dany provided a UK DIY vendor with a set of PCBs that clearly "borrowed" from Max's original MK47, but that's a whole other can-o-worms)... ...Dany's webstore currently offers DIY PCBs for most of the classics (87, 67, 47fet, M269, 251, M49, etc) and I believe he wants to round out his offerings with his own version of the 47 and possibly the C12 as well... ...as far as the Ioaudio offerings, Max was an innovator and his following is dedicated and growing...this new MK-U47 is unique due to Max's limited run of body/headbaskets and his custom-wound BV.08 as well as the tried-and-true dual-tube PCB design...Dany's new PCBs are just another alternate option...IMHO, no game-changers here...
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on Jul 4, 2014 10:13:33 GMT -6
...yes, as per Oliver Archut's recommendation...the CV4 also employs one of Oliver's BV8 transformer designs... Anyone ever stick a different capsule in a CV4 (other than the Shannon mod)? One of the BeesNeez 47's or something? One of you DIY guys perhaps? Shannons mod is too rich for my blood, but a DIY capsule swap should be easy enough right? I'm not sure what the CV4 circuit is modeled after? If the circuit is a flat frequency response design, then you could try what ever, but if it's got an eq'd circuit, you want to stick with the style it's designed for.. ala C12 for elam type circuit, k67 for a U67 type circuit etc. hope that makes sense
|
|
|
MK-U47
Jul 4, 2014 22:25:07 GMT -6
Post by watchtower on Jul 4, 2014 22:25:07 GMT -6
I am saying the following in the hopes of inciting some discussion, not to be derogatory towards the MK47... I am not a tubes expert, or even an electronics expert, but I have never been particularly convinced that parallel 408a tubes is "closer in sound" to a VF14 than for example a Telefunken EF800. From what I understand, the EF80x family actually shares a lineage with the EF14 and VF14. ...I have to say, that prior to seeing the dual-tube configuration, I had also read comments (from respected sources) in various forums that the EF80/EF800 series of tube variants was considered to be a very viable option for recreating the classic 47 circuit...Oliver Archut has been an advocate as well as Dave Pearlman (I believe David Bock and Wunder also use the EF800 as an alternate option as well)... ...just recently Dany Bouchard (Poctop on the GroupDIY forum) has announced the upcoming addition of a new "EF800 U47 PCB" set to his www.vintagemicrophonepcbkit.com site...based on sample EF800 and EF802 tubes supplied by Oliver Archut, Dany configured this new set of alternate U47 PCBs...here are the particulars: EF800-EF80-EF802 D-47 with AMI T47 and Classic BV08 from AMI support. Reed relay for True Omni switching from the psu rocker switch. Appropriate PSU PCB included with board set. Indeed, great points about Oliver and Dave Pearlman (Wunder also uses the EF80 or perhaps EF800 in their GT and GTS U47s), and I saw that Dany recently started offering that. I've tried both the EF800 and EF802 in my mic and could not really tell a difference in sound. If only I had a vintage original to compare them.
|
|
|
MK-U47
Jul 8, 2014 15:38:29 GMT -6
Post by cowboycoalminer on Jul 8, 2014 15:38:29 GMT -6
Getting ready to dive into this brute. I contacted Thriecsh about a capsule but they haven't replied in a week. Anybody got a lead on a good cap for this thing?
|
|
|
MK-U47
Jul 8, 2014 15:58:42 GMT -6
Post by tonycamphd on Jul 8, 2014 15:58:42 GMT -6
Getting ready to dive into this brute. I contacted Thriecsh about a capsule but they haven't replied in a week. Anybody got a lead on a good cap for this thing? Get the Thiersch blueline, neumann m7, or Shannon to build u one, there are no other capsules IMO
|
|
|
MK-U47
Jul 8, 2014 20:37:44 GMT -6
Post by cowboycoalminer on Jul 8, 2014 20:37:44 GMT -6
Where can I buy a Thiersch??
|
|