kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Jun 9, 2023 17:37:28 GMT -6
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Post by Mister Chase on Jun 9, 2023 17:42:47 GMT -6
Very interesting. Seems to really have some question marks especially for video folks...
I doubt I'd ever need the pro. Seems like the studio is a better nexus of power and performance.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2023 18:56:46 GMT -6
it's's the same as the mac studio with pci-e slots for almost 2000 more dollars just to get a fancy case you can use a can of compressed air in and maybe put noctuas in more easily. fukkin apple.
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Post by drbill on Jun 9, 2023 22:00:14 GMT -6
it's's the same as the mac studio with pci-e slots for almost 2000 more dollars just to get a fancy case you can use a can of compressed air in and maybe put noctuas in more easily. fukkin apple. Not having to buy and rack an external PCI expansion chassis and deal with associated latencies sounds pretty good to me at $2000. The overall price is def steep though. |
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Post by Blackdawg on Jun 9, 2023 22:28:33 GMT -6
Yeah very nice to have PCIe support and not run a chassis. But I also know that's pretty insignificant for most people.
However, still SUPER lame they still aren't supporting external GPU's. If you could load a could of Nvidia Graphics cards in one of those you would absolutely destory video renders in combination with the Mac's GPU cores. It would be so bad ass. That would make this a MUCH bigger deal. You could build a rendering machine that would probably be one of the most powerful computers you could buy if you could do that. Sadly, apple has a stick up their ass..
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2023 23:56:56 GMT -6
it's's the same as the mac studio with pci-e slots for almost 2000 more dollars just to get a fancy case you can use a can of compressed air in and maybe put noctuas in more easily. fukkin apple. Not having to buy and rack an external PCI expansion chassis and deal with associated latencies sounds pretty good to me at $2000. The overall price is def steep though. True. PCI-E cards still have the lowest latencies. The ability to easily clean it and not accidentally break anything is huge too. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 10, 2023 9:24:38 GMT -6
it's's the same as the mac studio with pci-e slots for almost 2000 more dollars just to get a fancy case you can use a can of compressed air in and maybe put noctuas in more easily. fukkin apple. Not having to buy and rack an external PCI expansion chassis and deal with associated latencies sounds pretty good to me at $2000. The overall price is def steep though. That was my thought, I think they actually did their homework this time. The Trashcan sold a lot of IMac’s, everyone loves the bruit power of the current Intel but a lot of guys are running expensive large expansion chassis. It’s the modern 9600 my favorite Mac! Power and it free’s 7 rack space sold! |
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Post by seawell on Jun 10, 2023 11:30:57 GMT -6
Is there any added latency from the Sonnet PCIe chassis? I can’t say I’ve ever noticed anything when transitioning from the G5 era to the trash can Mac Pro + Sonnet Echo Express III-D connected via thunderbolt.
I hate to have to say goodbye to the Mac Pro line but starting at 7k ain’t for me 😬. The Mac studio is plenty powerful, it just doesn’t look as cool.
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Jun 10, 2023 14:08:03 GMT -6
Same performance: half the price: why not Studio ?
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Post by drbill on Jun 10, 2023 14:41:35 GMT -6
Same performance: half the price: why not Studio ? PCI slots, upgradability. |
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Post by bgrotto on Jun 10, 2023 15:02:50 GMT -6
Man….my two main rigs - home and studio - run on a 15” mbp and an aging Mac mini respectively. Sonnet/hdx and sometimes hd native in a pinch. Both are 32x32, and nary a hiccup at 96k.
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Post by ericn on Jun 10, 2023 15:07:23 GMT -6
Same performance: half the price: why not Studio ? PCI slots, upgradability. Also the possibility of more memory. If the performance of the CPU is as promised this doesn’t really miss the mark, the added high performance memory and PCI-e slots hits the mark for those who the Studio doesn’t. Like its soul sister the 9600 this is Apple actually listening to the core target market for the MP, Video and Large scale audio post. The only things they could do to make it more desirable is 1. Rack Mount able 2. More powerful chip If you don’t see the need for more memory and / or the slots then your the target for the Studio, if your looking at it as still expensive and a Small Sonnet will cover you your still Studio market. Price a reliable 6 slot chassis you will understand. I know of at least 4 guys who are probably going to buy just for the rack space it will free up. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Jun 10, 2023 15:31:45 GMT -6
Same performance: half the price: why not Studio ? PCI slots, upgradability. If you need em, if you don’t, wasted money !  |
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Post by drbill on Jun 10, 2023 15:57:22 GMT -6
Of course. But I'm always running multiples of PCI cards, and at times when I didn't have the slots, I ran an expansion chassis. If at all possible, I'd prefer to never run an expansion chassis again. Certainly worth the extra $2k vs the cost and problems (potential) of an external expansion chassis. OPTIONS!!!! That's what it's all about. No two uses are identical. The little desktop comps and/or iMac's and/or laptops are lame (useless) for my uses. Glad Apple figured that out again. An extra $2k is a small price to pay. To call it "underwhelming" is shortsighted I think. |
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Post by ericn on Jun 10, 2023 17:26:56 GMT -6
Of course. But I'm always running multiples of PCI cards, and at times when I didn't have the slots, I ran an expansion chassis. If at all possible, I'd prefer to never run an expansion chassis again. Certainly worth the extra $2k vs the cost and problems (potential) of an external expansion chassis. OPTIONS!!!! That's what it's all about. No two uses are identical. The little desktop comps and/or iMac's and/or laptops are lame (useless) for my uses. Glad Apple figured that out again. An extra $2k is a small price to pay. To call it "underwhelming" is shortsighted I think. I don’t think most people realize how much large scale buisness Apple lost with the trashcan! |
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Jun 10, 2023 18:12:59 GMT -6
Of course. But I'm always running multiples of PCI cards, and at times when I didn't have the slots, I ran an expansion chassis. If at all possible, I'd prefer to never run an expansion chassis again. Certainly worth the extra $2k vs the cost and problems (potential) of an external expansion chassis. OPTIONS!!!! That's what it's all about. No two uses are identical. The little desktop comps and/or iMac's and/or laptops are lame (useless) for my uses. Glad Apple figured that out again. An extra $2k is a small price to pay. To call it "underwhelming" is shortsighted I think. Just wanted to stimulate debate ! Typical Canadian shit disturber: eh ! |
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Post by ericn on Jun 10, 2023 19:32:13 GMT -6
Of course. But I'm always running multiples of PCI cards, and at times when I didn't have the slots, I ran an expansion chassis. If at all possible, I'd prefer to never run an expansion chassis again. Certainly worth the extra $2k vs the cost and problems (potential) of an external expansion chassis. OPTIONS!!!! That's what it's all about. No two uses are identical. The little desktop comps and/or iMac's and/or laptops are lame (useless) for my uses. Glad Apple figured that out again. An extra $2k is a small price to pay. To call it "underwhelming" is shortsighted I think. Just wanted to stimulate debate ! Typical Canadian shit disturber: eh ! Well you guys do have those fires burning up the country side so we forgive you😁 |
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Post by kcatthedog on Jun 11, 2023 2:43:54 GMT -6
I’m in Ottawa and its better now but earlier in week was very apocalyptic !
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Post by kcatthedog on Jun 11, 2023 5:45:13 GMT -6
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Post by matt on Jun 11, 2023 9:29:29 GMT -6
PCI slots, upgradability. The only things they could do to make it more desirable is 1. Rack Mount able There is a rack version available- for a little extra $$$, of course.
Loving my M1 Ultra/128GB Studio, it's a little beast. Runs cool too, at half the temperature of my old Trashcan (80C vs 40C). I never hear the fan, ever. An M2 Ultra Mac Pro would totally rock for A/V production. If my Studio was a little older, I'd take a serious look at the new Pro. Maxed out, of course. Because why not!
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Post by sirthought on Jun 11, 2023 15:04:21 GMT -6
Yeah I think the rack version looks really cool and would be the way to go, if I needed the card slots.  |
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Post by kcatthedog on Jun 13, 2023 3:36:17 GMT -6
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Post by matt on Jun 13, 2023 8:59:15 GMT -6
It's interesting that each Mac Pro release generates another round of Apple-bashing. Remember when the Trashcan was announced? It was beat down from every angle- form factor (odd, ugly: it looks like a Trashcan! Hence the nickname), lack of expandability (no PCIE slots!), limited RAM capacity (128MB) and poor SSD storage upgradeability (proprietary connector, no NVMe without the latest firmware). But it found it's way into hundreds of studios, including mine. The 2019 Intel was bashed on price and appearance, yet it successfully replaced the Trashcan, and is out there delivering content on a daily basis. I suspect that the same thing will happen with this version too, maybe for those who did not buy a 2019 and still need slots. Is it a niche product? Absolutely. It always has been. Has the market for it shrunk? Yes indeed. For those of us who don't need PCIE slots, the M2 Ultra Studio is the machine of choice, no question. I'm guessing that Apple heard from the film/video industry of a need for an update to the 2019 Mac Pro's GPU capability, and they've responded. The available maximum video spec is massive (76-core GPU), promising huge performance, and may drive sales. But the 192MB RAM limit is a bottleneck; this may not be enough for some power users who dislike swapping. Time -and sales- will tell.
It is clear that Apple believes the system-on-a-chip (SoC) approach is the present and future of computing system architecture. It offers efficiencies and capability that the old IBM component paradigm (CPU/RAM/Videocard) does not. Apple is pushing the envelope, and if I was a betting man I'd put my money on Apple continuing to deliver significant technical advances over the next five to ten years and beyond. If the entire computing industry shifts to SoC, it will certainly impact any product reliant on internal PCIE expansion. The end of the road may be in sight for this technology.
Then there is the issue of thermal performance. This problem has eventually cropped up for me on every Intel Mac product I own. My Trashcan started "thermalling" (as in abruptly shutting down) about 6 months ago. Blowing it out with air did nothing to improve things. Running a minimal active software profile- nothing. My conclusion was that the current crop of software uses so much computing power that Intel CPUs eventually suffer from overheating on Mac systems. The same thing occurred with my prior machine, a 2012 maxed-out M7 Mini. Heck, these days it overheats running multiple Firefox tabs! But that is a thing of the past for me now. The bottom line is that Apple silicon runs cool, and is quiet since SoC allows for ultra-low noise fans to be used. For me, this is a big deal. I do not have a machine room and have always lived with fan noise nearby. Not anymore.
If any of you RGO-ers buy one of the new machines, I'd be interested in hearing your experience with it. Meanwhile, I'm loving my M1 Ultra Studio. It's a semi-beast!
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Post by kcatthedog on Jun 13, 2023 9:23:08 GMT -6
^^This^^
My m1 mini, just gets the job done: no muss, no fuss.
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Post by ericn on Jun 13, 2023 12:32:39 GMT -6
It's interesting that each Mac Pro release generates another round of Apple-bashing. Remember when the Trashcan was announced? It was beat down from every angle- form factor (odd, ugly: it looks like a Trashcan! Hence the nickname), lack of expandability (no PCIE slots!), limited RAM capacity (128MB) and poor SSD storage upgradeability (proprietary connector, no NVMe without the latest firmware). But it found it's way into hundreds of studios, including mine. The 2019 Intel was bashed on price and appearance, yet it successfully replaced the Trashcan, and is out there delivering content on a daily basis. I suspect that the same thing will happen with this version too, maybe for those who did not buy a 2019 and still need slots. Is it a niche product? Absolutely. It always has been. Has the market for it shrunk? Yes indeed. For those of us who don't need PCIE slots, the M2 Ultra Studio is the machine of choice, no question. I'm guessing that Apple heard from the film/video industry of a need for an update to the 2019 Mac Pro's GPU capability, and they've responded. The available maximum video spec is massive (76-core GPU), promising huge performance, and may drive sales. But the 192MB RAM limit is a bottleneck; this may not be enough for some power users who dislike swapping. Time -and sales- will tell.
It is clear that Apple believes the system-on-a-chip (SoC) approach is the present and future of computing system architecture. It offers efficiencies and capability that the old IBM component paradigm (CPU/RAM/Videocard) does not. Apple is pushing the envelope, and if I was a betting man I'd put my money on Apple continuing to deliver significant technical advances over the next five to ten years and beyond. The onset of SoC may have been a factor in Avid's decision to discontinue the HDX card, and if the entire computing industry shifts to SoC, it will certainly impact any product reliant on internal PCIE expansion. The end of the road may be in sight for this technology.
Then there is the issue of thermal performance. This problem has eventually cropped up for me on every Intel Mac product I own. My Trashcan started "thermalling" (as in abruptly shutting down) about 6 months ago. Blowing it out with air did nothing to improve things. Running a minimal active software profile- nothing. My conclusion was that the current crop of software uses so much computing power that Intel CPUs eventually suffer from overheating on Mac systems. The same thing occurred with my prior machine, a 2012 maxed-out M7 Mini. Heck, these days it overheats running multiple Firefox tabs! But that is a thing of the past for me now. The bottom line is that Apple silicon runs cool, and is quiet since SoC allows for ultra-low noise fans to be used. For me, this is a big deal. I do not have a machine room and have always lived with fan noise nearby. Not anymore.
If any of you RGO-ers buy one of the new machines, I'd be interested in hearing your experience with it. Meanwhile, I'm loving my M1 Ultra Studio. It's a semi-beast!
The biggest complaint seams to be the fact that based on the fact it’s not using a more powerful CPU than compared to the studio, then a comparison of the price of the studio with a small Sonette or Generic Expansion Chassis. The thing is between the expanded memory and the fact that Slot count to slot count your not in the low dollar expansion chassis, your in the land of Magma and some othe very esoteric Mill spec expansion chassis’s. It’s not underwhelming, what should be the overwhelming thread is the studio is a true bargain. |
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