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Post by tasteliketape on Aug 12, 2023 14:25:57 GMT -6
[.[/quote]It's not locked anymore, right?[/quote]
From UAD site
LUNA System Requirements
Thunderbolt-equipped Apollo interface (connection optional in Core Audio mode)
Note: Possessing a Thunderbolt-equipped Apollo interface is required to obtain a LUNA license)
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Post by suicity on Aug 12, 2023 15:24:46 GMT -6
LUNA can now run without Apollo hardware.
I am a UA Spark subscriber, and recently received a link to download it.
Installed and ran no problem, and I have a Metric Halo LIO-8
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Aug 12, 2023 15:30:22 GMT -6
Luna could easily replace pro tools if UAD let it run on better interaces or make a box to really offload the basic DAW and some good zero or very low latency workhorse fx instead of more emulation plugs. The problem is UAD was focused on prosumer and project studio market so compromised on sound quality, low latency drivers (monitoring outside Console gives USB like round trip latency on a thunderbolt interface), workhorse plugin inserts, and this is a huge run for thunderbolt only interfaces, CABLE RUNs. Thunderbolt cable runs suck. UAD 1 and 2 also never got a really good, basic dynamics plugin. It's all ersatz. Audiotonix could also do it. Digico sucks but SSL has kept the old C200 algorithms alive for decades, now has controllers that are better built than their analog hardware, bought Sydec a while ago to get mature converter tech but killed the Soundscape DAW, funded the development of Ardour about 20 years ago, and now owns Harrison. If they could iron out mixbus, make it low CPU like the SSL plugins (you used to have to be a good programmer and software designer to make usable audio code decades ago. Those old Waves Renaissance and Oxford plugs are no effin joke. The old reverb boxes pretty much had almost nothing but got great results) and have under 2ms latency at 88.2 and up samples rates, they could crush it. The latency of SSL converters' third party USB drivers hurts them but why not just go Dante.
Reaper on a low latency thunderbolt or dante rig is a thing of beauty if you have some self control. USB always has a few ms of latency of 44.1 khz even on RME but at higher sample rates or faster protocols, Reaper is just next level if you can get around it and accept that it feels like a computer program with a pretty good mixer attached.
Until they are really immersed and UNDERSTAND the post market and it's demands, UA won't be able to make the smallest dent into the PT market - other than on the musician end of things. There is a whole world of audio outside metal bands, singer songwriters, and EDM. Yep, post is what makes AVID, anyone here know why AVID bought Digidesign ? Because AVID was between 25-33% of Digi’s buisness. A hunch, the new owners invest more money in post first, because Blackmagic / Fairlight could come knocking. |
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Post by phantom on Aug 12, 2023 15:58:02 GMT -6
LUNA can now run without Apollo hardware. I am a UA Spark subscriber, and recently received a link to download it. Installed and ran no problem, and I have a Metric Halo LIO-8 You're part of a beta test group. It's not open to the public yet. |
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Post by Blackdawg on Aug 13, 2023 3:43:20 GMT -6
Exactly. My point. Hence why they will not take over PT territory. yeah the only DAW that could stand a chance in the Post world is Nuendo. Which at one point had the opportunity to do so but didn't. If Protools takes a turn for the worst, which Im doubtful it will, that's where I'd move too likely. Already do mastering in Wavelab so more steinburg products wouldn't hurt. |
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Post by Ward on Aug 13, 2023 16:45:07 GMT -6
If It weren't a locked system, I'd probably have tried Luna by now. But I have no desire to move to UAD hardware. It's not locked anymore, right? It isn't locked to using it with UAD hardware? I did not know that! What a pleasure to find that out. I'll investigate! |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Aug 14, 2023 6:02:42 GMT -6
Digidesign was also on the edge of going under! Avid also moved so much of Digidedign's staff to their own top management positions in Baahhhstn' that it looked like Digidesign had actually bought Avid! Of course NeXt had bought Apple which was really why Steve Jobs was back.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Aug 14, 2023 9:54:26 GMT -6
Lots of people freaking out about ProTools future (not here, but elsewhere on the webs). I personally am not a PT user but I'll put out a prediction based on a pretty good understanding of how private equity works.
My guess is that the acquisition of AVID involved a plan to sell ProTools off as separate unit. Since it makes up such a huge percentage of AVID revenue, that would have been hard to get approval for as a public company. But by buying it out and taking it public private, they can spin off ProTools to someone else (Yamaha? BlackMagic?) however they see fit. This is a pretty typical PE move. Break the company into parts that you can sell off for more than you paid for the whole.
So for ProTools people I wouldn't be worried. But for other AVID products I very much would be since ProTools was, by all accounts, propping up some of the less lucrative (but still essential to the smaller user bases) products.
Just a guess.
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Post by drumsound on Aug 14, 2023 10:54:19 GMT -6
Lots of people freaking out about ProTools future (not here, but elsewhere on the webs). I personally am not a PT user but I'll put out a prediction based on a pretty good understanding of how private equity works. My guess is that the acquisition of AVID involved a plan to sell ProTools off as separate unit. Since it makes up such a huge percentage of AVID revenue, that would have been hard to get approval for as a public company. But by buying it out and taking it public private, they can spin off ProTools to someone else (Yamaha? BlackMagic?) however they see fit. This is a pretty typical PE move. Break the company into parts that you can sell off for more than you paid for the whole. So for ProTools people I wouldn't be worried. But for other AVID products I very much would be since ProTools was, by all accounts, propping up some of the less lucrative (but still essential to the smaller user bases) products. Just a guess. This is a pretty interesting theory and I think you could be onto something. I do wonder who would try to acquire Pro Tools. I tend to get time-locked with my system, getting the last update I can without 'rebuying' until there's something I really need in a later version. I'm not super worried because I'm running fine right now. I really don't want to learn another DAW... |
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Post by notneeson on Aug 14, 2023 10:58:32 GMT -6
Lots of people freaking out about ProTools future (not here, but elsewhere on the webs). I personally am not a PT user but I'll put out a prediction based on a pretty good understanding of how private equity works. My guess is that the acquisition of AVID involved a plan to sell ProTools off as separate unit. Since it makes up such a huge percentage of AVID revenue, that would have been hard to get approval for as a public company. But by buying it out and taking it public private, they can spin off ProTools to someone else (Yamaha? BlackMagic?) however they see fit. This is a pretty typical PE move. Break the company into parts that you can sell off for more than you paid for the whole. So for ProTools people I wouldn't be worried. But for other AVID products I very much would be since ProTools was, by all accounts, propping up some of the less lucrative (but still essential to the smaller user bases) products. Just a guess. This is a pretty interesting theory and I think you could be onto something. I do wonder who would try to acquire Pro Tools. I tend to get time-locked with my system, getting the last update I can without 'rebuying' until there's something I really need in a later version. I'm not super worried because I'm running fine right now. I really don't want to learn another DAW... Amen to that last sentiment. I am zero percent interested in changing software. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Aug 14, 2023 11:35:59 GMT -6
Lots of people freaking out about ProTools future (not here, but elsewhere on the webs). I personally am not a PT user but I'll put out a prediction based on a pretty good understanding of how private equity works. My guess is that the acquisition of AVID involved a plan to sell ProTools off as separate unit. Since it makes up such a huge percentage of AVID revenue, that would have been hard to get approval for as a public company. But by buying it out and taking it public private, they can spin off ProTools to someone else (Yamaha? BlackMagic?) however they see fit. This is a pretty typical PE move. Break the company into parts that you can sell off for more than you paid for the whole. So for ProTools people I wouldn't be worried. But for other AVID products I very much would be since ProTools was, by all accounts, propping up some of the less lucrative (but still essential to the smaller user bases) products. Just a guess. This is a pretty interesting theory and I think you could be onto something. I do wonder who would try to acquire Pro Tools. I tend to get time-locked with my system, getting the last update I can without 'rebuying' until there's something I really need in a later version. I'm not super worried because I'm running fine right now. I really don't want to learn another DAW... The complicating factor is that it can't just be a software company. Half the value of ProTools is the adjoining hardware so you'd need to be able to take over manufacturing and distribution of all that stuff too. To me a company like BlackMagic makes sense. Years of experience in manufacturing, a great reputation in the video/film/TV world, and they've proven they have the software distribution chops with the growth of DaVinci. No idea of their corporate structure or their cash position or any of that stuff, just looking at brand fit. For all I know BlackMagic is on the verge of bankruptcy! Or they could be holding $200m in cash reserves. Who knows. But in terms of product/brand fit, that would be my choice. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Aug 14, 2023 11:38:59 GMT -6
This is a pretty interesting theory and I think you could be onto something. I do wonder who would try to acquire Pro Tools. I tend to get time-locked with my system, getting the last update I can without 'rebuying' until there's something I really need in a later version. I'm not super worried because I'm running fine right now. I really don't want to learn another DAW... The complicating factor is that it can't just be a software company. Half the value of ProTools is the adjoining hardware so you'd need to be able to take over manufacturing and distribution of all that stuff too. To me a company like BlackMagic makes sense. Years of experience in manufacturing, a great reputation in the video/film/TV world, and they've proven they have the software distribution chops with the growth of DaVinci. No idea of their corporate structure or their cash position or any of that stuff, just looking at brand fit. For all I know BlackMagic is on the verge of bankruptcy! Or they could be holding $200m in cash reserves. Who knows. But in terms of product/brand fit, that would be my choice. Hmm... quick Wikipedia research on Blackmagic. They're co-selling a custom GPU with Apple (great idea btw, clearly a smart company), seems like the upside on ProTools might not be worth rocking the boat with a key partner like Apple. |
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Post by ericn on Aug 14, 2023 11:55:51 GMT -6
The complicating factor is that it can't just be a software company. Half the value of ProTools is the adjoining hardware so you'd need to be able to take over manufacturing and distribution of all that stuff too. To me a company like BlackMagic makes sense. Years of experience in manufacturing, a great reputation in the video/film/TV world, and they've proven they have the software distribution chops with the growth of DaVinci. No idea of their corporate structure or their cash position or any of that stuff, just looking at brand fit. For all I know BlackMagic is on the verge of bankruptcy! Or they could be holding $200m in cash reserves. Who knows. But in terms of product/brand fit, that would be my choice. Hmm... quick Wikipedia research on Blackmagic. They're co-selling a custom GPU with Apple (great idea btw, clearly a smart company), seems like the upside on ProTools might not be worth rocking the boat with a key partner like Apple. Blackmagic is probably praying for an AVID breakup, Suddenly their purchase of Fairlight and its intergration would have value. They have no reason to purchase another DAW other than buying market share and that hasn’t been their style. They have quietly bought up 2nd tier players , developed and integrated them. The other night I was talking to a couple of guys in SR, the joke was Clair Global would buy the live diversion, but that’s highly impractical because what makes an AVID console an AVID console. A couple of post guys were expressing their fears that either Sony would want the whole thing or Behringer or Samsung \ Harmon would want the audio diversion. Just think the next generation of KIA could be equipped with an AVID infotainment system. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Aug 14, 2023 12:00:33 GMT -6
Hmm... quick Wikipedia research on Blackmagic. They're co-selling a custom GPU with Apple (great idea btw, clearly a smart company), seems like the upside on ProTools might not be worth rocking the boat with a key partner like Apple. Blackmagic is probably praying for an AVID breakup, Suddenly their purchase of Fairlight and its intergration would have value. They have no reason to purchase another DAW other than buying market share and that hasn’t been their style. They have quietly bought up 2nd tier players , developed and integrated them. The other night I was talking to a couple of guys in SR, the joke was Clair Global would buy the live diversion, but that’s highly impractical because what makes an AVID console an AVID console. A couple of post guys were expressing their fears that either Sony would want the whole thing or Behringer or Samsung \ Harmon would want the audio diversion. Just think the next generation of KIA could be equipped with an AVID infotainment system. Curious... why would Sony be something to be afraid of? Seems interesting to me. Deep (if unappreciated) experience in the pro audio world, deep understanding of video/film/tv production, and loads of consumer experience. Actually seems like a pretty good fit. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2023 12:55:33 GMT -6
Blackmagic is probably praying for an AVID breakup, Suddenly their purchase of Fairlight and its intergration would have value. They have no reason to purchase another DAW other than buying market share and that hasn’t been their style. They have quietly bought up 2nd tier players , developed and integrated them. The other night I was talking to a couple of guys in SR, the joke was Clair Global would buy the live diversion, but that’s highly impractical because what makes an AVID console an AVID console. A couple of post guys were expressing their fears that either Sony would want the whole thing or Behringer or Samsung \ Harmon would want the audio diversion. Just think the next generation of KIA could be equipped with an AVID infotainment system. Curious... why would Sony be something to be afraid of? Seems interesting to me. Deep (if unappreciated) experience in the pro audio world, deep understanding of video/film/tv production, and loads of consumer experience. Actually seems like a pretty good fit. Part of Sony's long history is abandoning products (3324, 777 and so on). One of Pro Tools big strengths is compatibility over many versions over many years. As much as I like my Sony TV, I can't see them staying the course with Avid. |
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Post by ericn on Aug 14, 2023 13:49:53 GMT -6
Curious... why would Sony be something to be afraid of? Seems interesting to me. Deep (if unappreciated) experience in the pro audio world, deep understanding of video/film/tv production, and loads of consumer experience. Actually seems like a pretty good fit. Part of Sony's long history is abandoning products (3324, 777 and so on). One of Pro Tools big strengths is compatibility over many versions over many years. As much as I like my Sony TV, I can't see them staying the course with Avid. Exactly, the 2 biggest companies who could benefit from AVID’s post assets Panasonic and Sony have a long history of coming in and out of the pro audio world , Michael forgot the Oxford! Sony is the one company that has another reason to want AVID, their film and television divisions have a huge investment in AVID systems, in fact I’ll bet they have one of the largest investments in AVID products. The major film and Television producers have the biggest interest in AVID’s survival. Having in the past sat in on AVID’s earnings ( well they were useally loss) calls, I began to realize nobody else on these calls understood what AVID is, the anylist were all the guy who played guitar or owned a video camera at these firms. It always scared the crap out of me that these firms who could make or break AVID at any time didn’t understand AVID. |
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Post by drbill on Aug 14, 2023 14:08:17 GMT -6
The major film and Television producers have the biggest interest in AVID’s survival... Right after drBill!!!!! |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2023 14:12:48 GMT -6
"It always scared the crap out of me that these firms who could make or break AVID at any time didn’t understand AVID." You can extend that to the market as a whole. Whether music studios or post houses, they all have very solid reasons for doing things the way they do them. They're not "old fogies who don't understanding computing". They're people with established, efficient workflows on which millions (or hundreds of millions) of dollars are depending. Having been part of multiple companies that were taken over, I've not yet seen any indication that the bean-counters are aware of how end-users work. Doesn't show up in Excel, so it doesn't exist. |
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Post by drumsound on Aug 14, 2023 14:36:46 GMT -6
This is a pretty interesting theory and I think you could be onto something. I do wonder who would try to acquire Pro Tools. I tend to get time-locked with my system, getting the last update I can without 'rebuying' until there's something I really need in a later version. I'm not super worried because I'm running fine right now. I really don't want to learn another DAW... Amen to that last sentiment. I am zero percent interested in changing software. Shit I still don't know 70% of the PT capabilities... This is a pretty interesting theory and I think you could be onto something. I do wonder who would try to acquire Pro Tools. I tend to get time-locked with my system, getting the last update I can without 'rebuying' until there's something I really need in a later version. I'm not super worried because I'm running fine right now. I really don't want to learn another DAW... The complicating factor is that it can't just be a software company. Half the value of ProTools is the adjoining hardware so you'd need to be able to take over manufacturing and distribution of all that stuff too. To me a company like BlackMagic makes sense. Years of experience in manufacturing, a great reputation in the video/film/TV world, and they've proven they have the software distribution chops with the growth of DaVinci. No idea of their corporate structure or their cash position or any of that stuff, just looking at brand fit. For all I know BlackMagic is on the verge of bankruptcy! Or they could be holding $200m in cash reserves. Who knows. But in terms of product/brand fit, that would be my choice. I literally have never head of Black Magic, but I trust you opinion. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Aug 14, 2023 15:01:55 GMT -6
Amen to that last sentiment. I am zero percent interested in changing software. Shit I still don't know 70% of the PT capabilities... The complicating factor is that it can't just be a software company. Half the value of ProTools is the adjoining hardware so you'd need to be able to take over manufacturing and distribution of all that stuff too. To me a company like BlackMagic makes sense. Years of experience in manufacturing, a great reputation in the video/film/TV world, and they've proven they have the software distribution chops with the growth of DaVinci. No idea of their corporate structure or their cash position or any of that stuff, just looking at brand fit. For all I know BlackMagic is on the verge of bankruptcy! Or they could be holding $200m in cash reserves. Who knows. But in terms of product/brand fit, that would be my choice. I literally have never head of Black Magic, but I trust you opinion. They make medium-end (is that a word?) pro cameras. They don't compete with the Red's of the world but I've seen them on pro shoots. And they have what I think is the most modern UI for video editing and special effects which is DaVinci/Fusion. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Aug 14, 2023 15:03:03 GMT -6
Curious... why would Sony be something to be afraid of? Seems interesting to me. Deep (if unappreciated) experience in the pro audio world, deep understanding of video/film/tv production, and loads of consumer experience. Actually seems like a pretty good fit. Part of Sony's long history is abandoning products (3324, 777 and so on). One of Pro Tools big strengths is compatibility over many versions over many years. As much as I like my Sony TV, I can't see them staying the course with Avid. Yeah, even looking from the outside in this is true in the pro audio world for sure. |
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Post by Blackdawg on Aug 14, 2023 17:41:26 GMT -6
Seems very unlikely they would break it up.
One thing not being discussed in this thread is Avid's Media Composer which is a very big deal in the big post houses for TV/Film editing/coloring. I don't think it's going anywhere. Just like Protools is a big deal in Post production too. Music is big, but the money is in film/tv still.
Blackmagic would love that though as while they have Fairlight in Resolve they want to become more prolific in the editing world of film/tv. They are making tons of headway by embracing the Google plan of making it free and very powerful so college kids and up and comers go for it. That and they have a buy once and own it perpetual license still.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2023 9:33:57 GMT -6
Seems very unlikely they would break it up. One thing not being discussed in this thread is Avid's Media Composer which is a very big deal in the big post houses for TV/Film editing/coloring. I don't think it's going anywhere. Just like Protools is a big deal in Post production too. Music is big, but the money is in film/tv still. I worry a bit about Sibelius. It's been my notation program for 25 years, and sometimes feels like it's lagging behind a lot of Avid development. |
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Post by ericn on Aug 18, 2023 10:05:25 GMT -6
Seems very unlikely they would break it up. One thing not being discussed in this thread is Avid's Media Composer which is a very big deal in the big post houses for TV/Film editing/coloring. I don't think it's going anywhere. Just like Protools is a big deal in Post production too. Music is big, but the money is in film/tv still. I worry a bit about Sibelius. It's been my notation program for 25 years, and sometimes feels like it's lagging behind a lot of Avid development. That is the one I can see being abandoned, while it has a loyal group of users, it hasn’t seen the investment or development. I also see it as the least understood product. So unless I was prepared to live with an Orphaned system on an orphaned OS, ( hey I spent my morning on a thinkpad 600 running Soundweb). Time to start quietly looking elsewhere. |
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Post by christopher on Aug 18, 2023 10:21:51 GMT -6
I’d love blackmagic since it would likely result in PT ultimate Native being free or at least cheaper than Logic. A breakup makes sense if it’s so Apple can swoop in. They are pushing spatial, atmos, VR, which means: potentially more and more channels of hardware. Video and Audio. The virtual atmos surround they do has room to improve, maybe future versions will eventually use 16 drivers per ear? And developers needing to make stuff for it would need 32 outputs for 32 drivers, processing on each. Add that Avid is the price premium leader like Apple, seems quite the fit. Then your Apple system is complete: use it for mixing Apps, earbuds, in ears and FOH live sound, Film, post, AV installs, everywhere
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