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Post by notneeson on May 31, 2023 11:21:26 GMT -6
Yeah the pro talent I’ve worked with are so much more trusting of the process, understand the trial and error process is just part of the deal. The less experienced seem more emotional and reactionary to anything and everything. I’ve learned I have to communicate the “why” to every move I do to pre-empt the inevitable reactions. Trust is tough. My buddy sends me stuff all the time, on the way to a finished mix. And first couple revisions I want to open my mouth and point out this/that.. but I remind myself he knows that. 5-10 revisions down the road it’s sounding perfect and I’m happy I didn’t interfere Pro session player with major label credits: “I’m more than happy to go DI or use an amp, whatever you prefer is fine.” Gigging bass player in tribute band who thinks they’re a pro: “WHY DID I EVEN BRING MY CABINET IF YOU ARE GOING TO MIX THE BASS SO LOW.” Band and everyone else in the room: “Um, it actually sounds perfect as is.”
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Post by jaba on May 31, 2023 11:51:09 GMT -6
Yeah the pro talent I’ve worked with are so much more trusting of the process, understand the trial and error process is just part of the deal. The less experienced seem more emotional and reactionary to anything and everything. I’ve learned I have to communicate the “why” to every move I do to pre-empt the inevitable reactions. Trust is tough. My buddy sends me stuff all the time, on the way to a finished mix. And first couple revisions I want to open my mouth and point out this/that.. but I remind myself he knows that. 5-10 revisions down the road it’s sounding perfect and I’m happy I didn’t interfere Pro session player with major label credits: “I’m more than happy to go DI or use an amp, whatever you prefer is fine.” Gigging bass player in tribute band who thinks they’re a pro: “WHY DID I EVEN BRING MY CABINET IF YOU ARE GOING TO MIX THE BASS SO LOW.” Band and everyone else in the room: “Um, it actually sounds perfect as is.” So true. I've tracked some very experienced/ talented players who have worked with some of the best in the business and now here I come, setting them up and getting sounds, and they're chill as hell. They do their thing and let me do mine. At most there's a small adjustment and off we go. Part of it is that they'll tell me if they don't like what they're hearing, and the other is that "their sound" is in the playing and a few simple key pieces of gear that they walk in with, if that.
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Post by notneeson on May 31, 2023 14:58:11 GMT -6
Yeah the pro talent I’ve worked with are so much more trusting of the process, understand the trial and error process is just part of the deal. The less experienced seem more emotional and reactionary to anything and everything. I’ve learned I have to communicate the “why” to every move I do to pre-empt the inevitable reactions. Trust is tough. My buddy sends me stuff all the time, on the way to a finished mix. And first couple revisions I want to open my mouth and point out this/that.. but I remind myself he knows that. 5-10 revisions down the road it’s sounding perfect and I’m happy I didn’t interfere Pro session player with major label credits: “I’m more than happy to go DI or use an amp, whatever you prefer is fine.” Gigging bass player in tribute band who thinks they’re a pro: “WHY DID I EVEN BRING MY CABINET IF YOU ARE GOING TO MIX THE BASS SO LOW.” Band and everyone else in the room: “Um, it actually sounds perfect as is.” And on the other side of the coin, sometimes it’s not the more technically accomplished players who make a band sound special. There can be a greater than the sum of its parts thing that is ephemeral and different. Except for the drummer, who must always slay.
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 31, 2023 15:34:56 GMT -6
Slightly off topic, but by chance I've worked with some of the best bass players on the planet back in the day. The most interesting thing was if a band was good and tight, that level bass player instantly brought it to a truly great level. It was like there was no way it could be great without them. You could have a quirky guitarist, but not a half assed bass player.
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antbar
Junior Member
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Post by antbar on May 31, 2023 16:00:14 GMT -6
Slightly off topic, but by chance I've worked with some of the best bass players on the planet back in the day. The most interesting thing was if a band was good and tight, that level bass player instantly brought it to a truly great level. It was like there was no way it could be great without them. You could have a quirky guitarist, but not a half assed bass player. I was very fortunate to have one of my bass heroes play on a track. I'd only known his playing via the albums his band had made and was very curious what it'd be like to work with him. I had a great drum track sent to me by another top guy, who happened to be a fan of the bass player's former band, so things were looking good. Once I had a basic track with the drums sitting nice, I sent a stereo mix to the bass player. I was in California, he was in the UK, both of us recording from home. He sent me a couple bass tracks, recorded with a Radar system. I sent him back an early rough mix with his part sitting in the track. He noted that the bass wasn't exactly where it should be. It seems that his Radar and my PT didn't quite agree on zero. Thing was, I couldn't hear the discrepancy. I *sorta* could if I squinted at the speakers, but he was certain something was slightly off. Because we were handling this via email, with an 8-hour time difference, it took almost two weeks before he finally declared the track "just right." (5ms was the magic number, by the way!) By that point, I could hear/feel the difference, but only barely. It's not like I had an epiphany that elevated my ear to the next level of hearing, but it was a brilliant example of a world-class player doing his thing and making sure we both got things just right so that the song was best it could be.
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Post by notneeson on May 31, 2023 16:38:17 GMT -6
Slightly off topic, but by chance I've worked with some of the best bass players on the planet back in the day. The most interesting thing was if a band was good and tight, that level bass player instantly brought it to a truly great level. It was like there was no way it could be great without them. You could have a quirky guitarist, but not a half assed bass player. I was very fortunate to have one of my bass heroes play on a track. I'd only known his playing via the albums his band had made and was very curious what it'd be like to work with him. I had a great drum track sent to me by another top guy, who happened to be a fan of the bass player's former band, so things were looking good. Once I had a basic track with the drums sitting nice, I sent a stereo mix to the bass player. I was in California, he was in the UK, both us recording from home. He sent me a couple bass tracks, recorded with a Radar system. I sent him back an early rough mix with his part sitting in the track. He noted that the bass wasn't exactly where it should be. It seems that his Radar and my PT didn't quite agree on zero. Thing was, I couldn't hear the discrepancy. I *sorta* could if I squinted at the speakers, but he was certain something was slightly off. Because we were handling this via email, with an 8-hour time difference, it took almost two weeks before he finally declared the track "just right." (5ms was the magic number, by the way!) By that point, I could hear/feel the difference, but only barely. It's not like I had an epiphany that elevated my ear to the next level of hearing, but it was a brilliant example of a world-class player doing his thing and making sure we both got things just right so that the song was best it could be. I played guitar on a project that Tim Lefebvre added bass to. Man, did he up the collective game. What a creative, driving, groovy bass player. In hindsight, I’d have loved to go after him, instead of playing to the scratch tracks as he really brought a lot of excitement to the tunes.
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antbar
Junior Member
Posts: 74
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Post by antbar on May 31, 2023 19:00:51 GMT -6
I was very fortunate to have one of my bass heroes play on a track. I'd only known his playing via the albums his band had made and was very curious what it'd be like to work with him. I had a great drum track sent to me by another top guy, who happened to be a fan of the bass player's former band, so things were looking good. Once I had a basic track with the drums sitting nice, I sent a stereo mix to the bass player. I was in California, he was in the UK, both us recording from home. He sent me a couple bass tracks, recorded with a Radar system. I sent him back an early rough mix with his part sitting in the track. He noted that the bass wasn't exactly where it should be. It seems that his Radar and my PT didn't quite agree on zero. Thing was, I couldn't hear the discrepancy. I *sorta* could if I squinted at the speakers, but he was certain something was slightly off. Because we were handling this via email, with an 8-hour time difference, it took almost two weeks before he finally declared the track "just right." (5ms was the magic number, by the way!) By that point, I could hear/feel the difference, but only barely. It's not like I had an epiphany that elevated my ear to the next level of hearing, but it was a brilliant example of a world-class player doing his thing and making sure we both got things just right so that the song was best it could be. I played guitar on a project that Tim Lefebvre added bass to. Man, did he up the collective game. What a creative, driving, groovy bass player. I hindsight, I’d have loved to go after him, instead of playing to the scratch tracks as he really brought a lot of excitement to the tunes. We're able now to work with amazing players remotely, making complete albums without anyone ever being in the same room as anybody else. The drummer that worked on the track I was mentioning first did his drums in California. I went with the first of two bass tracks to create the rhythm track. The drummer wasn't thrilled with the approach I took to the drum track, as I'd added a fair bit of drum machine (and even a bit of a second drummer). Because working with this bass player was such a big deal for both of us, I didn't like letting him down. The compromise turned out great for all of us. The bass player sent a third track, with what he was calling his "Archies" tone (plectrum and an old Epiphone bass was part of it). The drummer, meanwhile, sent a fresh drum performance from Italy, where he was touring at the time (and where his Italian band leader had a studio). This alternate drum take was more 60s/Ringo and fit just right with the Archies bass. The original take went on the CD release, the Archies/Ringo version went on the LP and everyone was happy! I didn't even meet the bass player until it was time to do a video for the song. I showed up at his house and we filmed in the kitchen. We weren't plugged in, but our between-take jamming was a blast. I'm used to working on my own, but it's the "in the room" moments most of us remember best, I think.
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Post by Pueblo Audio on Jun 1, 2023 14:21:04 GMT -6
I have not read the entire thread but wanted to contribute this idea…
There is no “pro” sound. More like “pro” results over a body of work.
There are some amateurs whose work is stunning and can rival a professional’s. Likewise there are pros whose output may not be “all that” by some listeners. But, often, the well performing amateur (meant in its best meaning of “love of the craft”) possess good, innate talent and had plenty of time to pull something off that is great.
The (successful) professional must regularly deliver a successful product on deadlines and in budget, day after day, year after year. So when you take a large body of work and evaluate the stats, they more often than not provide a return on investment for both the artists, labels, and record buyers alike.
Pros do it every day and make consistent, commercial impressions. An amateur will sometimes outperform a pro engineer, but probably not with material consistency, again and again and again and…
If they do, then they are a pro whether they like it or not 😊
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2023 11:55:43 GMT -6
Sometimes its easy to tell that people just can't hear things very well... I agree 100%, problem being this is the most expensive portion to sort out. My old room was rather small and despite ample treatment you couldn't escape either the slap back echo reflections or dullness due to the excess treatment, monitors of any size gave me only a fraction of the story and mic's tended to sound either sharp or weak. I managed to get around it to a certain extent, an upgrade to LYD's helped and a few other upgrades impacted the end result but it was always an uphill battle. I did try headphones but at the time I didn't find any that translated all that well.
Also back then VST's (especially drums) were far worse, plugins weren't as good as they are today and I had vocal insecurities that made me bury (and excess verb) vox in the mix. All this added up to crap productions really. I was a bit confused regarding the ridiculous drop in quality for a while but years on I realised it wasn't just one thing, although the room was by far the main issue.
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