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Post by robo on Apr 17, 2023 10:17:01 GMT -6
I’ve always liked a touch of compression on overheads, particularly for more aggressive music. A little goes a long way to getting the kit to sound cohesive. I should say I almost always run my overheads through clean preamps into RND 542’s to smooth transients a hair before compression.
Comps I’ve tried and liked:
Audioscape DComp: finicky to set up, so not ideal for tracking IMO, but excellent envelope shaping for driving beats. A great mixing tool.
SSL bus comp clones (had 3-4 different ones): great for adding a little controlled snap, but I never liked the sound of faster settings, which can be the thing on rock drums.
1178: Great to control transients and even things out, too fast to add snap or do envelope shaping.
Elysia Xpressor: Transparent envelope shaping. Can do crazy amounts of GR if you want to add some parallel motion. Soft knee doesn’t allow for much snappiness.
API 2500: Solid compromise for fast/slow/shaping, plus THRUST is helpful with cymbal bashers. You can drive the output for color too. If I did a lot of heavy rock this would probably be my jam.
Daking CompII: My current favorite, as it can do the 1178 and the SSL thing well with fast or slow attack - the VCA really can sound like a fet. Minimal controls make it great for tracking in my world as I do lots of different styles with the same setup.
Hope that’s helpful!
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Post by Tbone81 on Apr 17, 2023 10:27:01 GMT -6
The d comp Looks pretty damn good. 2.5k aud……that’s going on the list. I could buy some more JLM la500a modules which are pretty good for tracking. . As a what if. What if I’m just looking for more of a console sound. Another option is some neve line amps or vp28’s RND 542’s are great for that |
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Post by EmRR on Apr 17, 2023 10:51:13 GMT -6
Not something I ever track with, tend to only use if it's something dense and I need to control every stray transient in everything, or the snare is really hot over everything else.
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Post by jaba on Apr 17, 2023 11:58:35 GMT -6
Totally agree with niklas1073: the playing/capture of the drums plays a huge part in how much compression you can get away with on overheads.
A dynamically erratic guitar/singer/etc can greatly benefit from some heavy handed compression but an unbalanced drum kit? Might just make it worse (you thought the hats were loud before!).
What can sometimes work in any case is parallel compression on the overheads (rarely do this on a console for whatever reason but ITB I usually use MolotGE or Omnipressor) which allows you so seriously muck with the signal in other ways if needed - drastic EQ, de-essing, etc.
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Post by jmoose on Apr 17, 2023 18:11:45 GMT -6
Only once have I tracked OH through a compressor and gotten great results. It was for a group going for a super-retro Beatles-esque sound. An AKG C60 (small diaphragm tube condensor) through an ancient green Altec 436c tube compressor, slammed. Instant Ringo, the cymbals pumped so much they almost sounded backwards. But really…not a sound you’d want every day. Sure. Absolutely that's a thing! Compressor as "effect" - Ringo. Bonzo. That sorta trip is a sound. Other compressors will do it too... 2254 / La2a / 1176 - anything kinda aggressive & slooooow. Lots of stuff from that era is 2 or 3 mics through a single compressor to one mono track. Sometimes I'll use a summit DCL200 across the overheads in tracking. Print that thing. Apparently a favorite of Brendan O'Brien... who actually used the SSL 4000 preamps & EQ for drums on all those infamous records. The dreaded SSL console pres. His old assistant told me a couple years ago. Well ok then no more fear! Occasionally I'll pop an SSL type across the overheads, fastest release. Maybe back a click. Attack to taste..? Really only looking to tickle the meter on the loudest snare hits. Like its barely doing anything but tightening things up. I find the linchpin to making the whole thing work is having a really excellent stereo image out of the overheads in the first place, with the kick... but especially the snare actually centered. If the image is pulling to one side or the other any amount of compression is going to start doing this "seasick" thing and turn phasey / wobbly. And so I find that generally? If I didn't actually track the drums myself I usually don't compress overheads while mixing. Never say never just rarely. Unless, of course, its the Bonzo bash FX thing. That move is more about vibe then fidelity anyway. |
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Post by ab101 on Apr 17, 2023 18:51:30 GMT -6
The Audioscape D-comp on the drum overhead buss, adds glue. Should not be overdone though and on the buss is fairly easy to set. And the HPF is very handy.
Great price. Super company.
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Post by phdamage on Apr 17, 2023 21:34:32 GMT -6
I just started using my Stam 4000-5 in this capacity but I view it as a serious luxury. Obviously do what you like but for me, my $$ would be far better spent on heavier productions to get more close mics on the kit.
That said the Stam does the job of tucking in the snare ever so slightly.
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Post by smashlord on Apr 17, 2023 22:50:38 GMT -6
Either of these. 2x 1176 or 1178 or 33609 all rule on OH or drum bus. For 2x 1176 I'd specifically recommend a later rev, silver face 1176 (G or H) for this. I'm generally not a fan of those 76s, but on OHs, they bring something special that IMO the earlier revs don't have. Agreed. They have a snarl that works great on OHs, rooms, and as a spitty guitar fuzz box. Someone more knowledgable with the tech stuff can probably speak better to this than I, but my understanding is the 1178 and silver faces have an IC instead of an input transformer in contrast to the earlier versions. For OHS, Compex, 33609, or the API 2500 all have worked well for me. |
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Post by winterland on Apr 17, 2023 23:41:42 GMT -6
Varimu.
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Post by schmalzy on Apr 18, 2023 13:59:48 GMT -6
I have two layers of compression on my overheads. Both are plugins but I'd love to do it via hardware.
One is a multi band compressor. It's just knocking the shells down below 1kHz. Fast attack fast release high ratio. Often I'm tracking aggressive drums and sometimes there's just a little (or a lot) too much poke though of the shells into the overheads. Most often just doing a few db of reduction but I've had great results pounding out 10db of reduction when I needed it! It's nice because it's not pumping the cymbals but is managing the shell transients.
The other is a compressor that has its side chain high-passed pretty high (around 3kHz) and it helps to contain anything that bangs out really loud like a ride bell, a china, or a loud passage of hats. Pretty fast attack and medium release timed to the groove. Not doing a ton of reduction here; 3db as a target max if necessary and it's probably doing nothing for most of the song.
Those two compressors managing the stuff that pokes out gives me an opportunity to EQ less on my overheads. The less-fucked-with frequency shape of the overheads ties my kit together while I'm carving and smashing much of the rest of the drum sources pretty heavily.
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Post by guitfiddler on Apr 18, 2023 23:38:10 GMT -6
Clairphonic/Rnd 542’s/Deressor’s/1178🤟🏻
Not always in this order dependent on style I’m going for
1176’s rev D on OH and snare, levels on faders and find the sweet spot, does something really special for aggressive stuff
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Post by vvvooojjj on Apr 19, 2023 2:04:42 GMT -6
I had UBK Fatso many moons ago and I remember that it had a setting that was excellent for OHs.
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Post by guitfiddler on Apr 19, 2023 2:29:10 GMT -6
I had UBK Fatso many moons ago and I remember that it had a setting that was excellent for OHs. I love that UBK Fatso box, wish I had one. I have an EL7X Fatso I’m experimenting with, I really like it! |
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Post by Ward on Apr 19, 2023 7:20:21 GMT -6
I am very happy happy with the D-Comp, but there's a reason I championed (and bugged the crap out of everyone here and GS and other forums) support of the audioscape 78, took a list -> realgearonline.com/post/275011 and convinced Chris to make one. For this very reason, and room mics, and background vocals. It's the tits for those applications . . . and into one channel, out of it, into the other for lead vocals creates a VERY cool vibe. |
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Post by gouge on Apr 19, 2023 15:50:10 GMT -6
So many tastey pieces memtioned. There's a Foote p3s selling in my local area. Will keep an eye on pricing however will probably push the button on a stam sa4000. If it doesnt speak to me during tracking it'll be used for mixing so not a loss in my current setup.
A few others have mentioned it, and like them for me a tracking comp must be very easy to use. One reason i like tracking through jlm la500a is its kind of in auto mode in its default settings. I only need to look at gain staging which results in a quick setup time and doesnt allow me to get myself into trouble.
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Post by gouge on Apr 19, 2023 15:52:49 GMT -6
Would love an 1178.
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Post by sentientsound on May 8, 2023 15:44:23 GMT -6
I reckon the AudioScape 78 will be a great option.
Often I'm using a pair of AML 52f50 or a Buzz DBC. The AMLs more for color and mild glue, or the DBC for tweakier goals like tucking snare peaks in, evening and sustaining cymbals, or adding punch.
ITB I've had good results with Kush Silika, going gentle and tuning the sidechain emphasis for the right degree of low-end grab and to hold back harshness sweeping the 3kHz and up range.
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Post by christophert on May 8, 2023 18:09:22 GMT -6
I should try my Buzz DBC in this application.
Usually use API 2500 (with Red Dots) for the rocking tracks , Pom Fairchild for everything else, as it gives the cymbals and kit a beautiful tube sheen.
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Post by sentientsound on May 9, 2023 15:18:11 GMT -6
I should try my Buzz DBC in this application. Usually use API 2500 (with Red Dots) for the rocking tracks , Pom Fairchild for everything else, as it gives the cymbals and kit a beautiful tube sheen. Definitely try the DBC! The hard knee mode with fast timings can really tuck shell transients back in, giving a stable kit sound that's easy to balance with close mics. It does the slammed cymbal pumping thing too if you're into that or 5-10ms attack and 100ms release for some transient emphasis and room sound boost. The tone seems to help too - more presence without feeling sharp/hard in the mids and top. A lot of tracking rooms here have a 2500 - how are you setting it up on OHs? |
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Post by christophert on May 10, 2023 4:54:07 GMT -6
I should try my Buzz DBC in this application. Usually use API 2500 (with Red Dots) for the rocking tracks , Pom Fairchild for everything else, as it gives the cymbals and kit a beautiful tube sheen. Definitely try the DBC! The hard knee mode with fast timings can really tuck shell transients back in, giving a stable kit sound that's easy to balance with close mics. It does the slammed cymbal pumping thing too if you're into that or 5-10ms attack and 100ms release for some transient emphasis and room sound boost. The tone seems to help too - more presence without feeling sharp/hard in the mids and top. A lot of tracking rooms here have a 2500 - how are you setting it up on OHs? I'm just tickling the OH's with the API - and independent L&R compression as I don't want for ex a floor tom hit to squash the other side of the drums (when tracking).
These days I do very little compression when tracking.
Bass always gets a fair bit of BG2 compression, and vocals usually a reasonable amount of BG2 - because it sounds invisible.
Sometimes 3.1 compression on a kick drum, and a shit load on certain room mics for the rocking tracks.
I'm more a fan of the flavor / sound of various compression hardware on OH's when tracking, as I can always hit it hard later in the mix.
As decades go by, I use less and less compression and I lean more on transformer saturation from preamps at the tracking stage for guitars, snare, toms etc. I like to keep everything as dynamic as possible until mixing, and then I'm careful not to squash the life out of tracks.
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Post by gouge on May 10, 2023 15:45:06 GMT -6
I used to have an orban 418a i used on drums. The way it handled overheads was pretty impressive.
Unfortunatley the potted module failed and with replacement parts non existent it was retired.
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Post by geoff738 on May 10, 2023 18:52:33 GMT -6
I’d like to know what Joe Henry uses. His cymbals have this bloom to them. Almost sounds like mallets. Maybe it is.
Cheers,
Geoff
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Post by paulcheeba on May 10, 2023 20:28:01 GMT -6
Compex F760, Chandler Zener and Overstayers.
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Post by drumsound on May 11, 2023 1:28:38 GMT -6
I’d like to know what Joe Henry uses. His cymbals have this bloom to them. Almost sounds like mallets. Maybe it is. Cheers, Geoff Ask Ryan Freeland. |
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Post by thehightenor on May 11, 2023 6:28:04 GMT -6
Since the OH’s pretty much capture the entire kit, I tend not to compress them separate from the drum bus, if you listen carefully you can always hear some strange phase stuff. ^ This. |
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