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Post by gouge on Apr 16, 2023 15:57:56 GMT -6
My overheads mic setup is a pair of ksm137 in x/y. Thats the basis of the drum sound i use then i spot mic kick and snare. Recently sm7b on snare and generally 52a on kick.
Punk and heavier music. For acoustic stuff i dont use comp.
So i'm looking for mid level options for a compressor to track through to add some punch. I used to have access to a dbx buss comp which i liked. am now looking for something more in my budget to do a similar thing.
Stam SA4000-5 is one option. Wondering what other options people would consider.
P.S would even consider a box of transformers or an eq. Doesnt need to be a comp.
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Post by gouge on Apr 16, 2023 16:04:54 GMT -6
Ive got a plug chain i like that does good things. A buss eq sim followed by tape sim.
Am starting to add a few tracking pieces to my setup.
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Post by mcirish on Apr 16, 2023 16:25:46 GMT -6
I find I rarely use a compressor on overheads. It just brings up the cymbals way more than I want. Most often I am using some type of saturation type plugin on overheads. It controls the dynamic range without bringing up the cymbals. I'm not sure what I'd use in the hardware world to accomplish that same thing. It's not really distortion.
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Post by gouge on Apr 16, 2023 16:42:37 GMT -6
Yeah i think you raise a solid point. Sometimes just a bit of circuitry to tighten up the lows a bit can make it sound more punchy.
An eq to run through may also be an option. Im not looking for saturation per se.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2023 17:05:07 GMT -6
API 2500 THRUST
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Post by copperx on Apr 16, 2023 17:27:52 GMT -6
I never understood why API italicized the word. Is it an inside joke or something? |
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Post by keymod on Apr 16, 2023 17:30:42 GMT -6
We just did a drum session using an AEA R88 as a room mic instead of overheads. We ran it through an Audioscape Dcomp with great results for what we were looking for.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2023 18:51:59 GMT -6
I never understood why API italicized the word. Is it an inside joke or something? ATI patented a 3 db per octave high pass filter, a blue noise filter, the inverse of pink noise, on a compressor sidechain when many vca compressors already automatically selected slower time constants in the smoothing filter, the attack/release filter that changes based on polarity of the signal, when triggered by low frequency content. When ATI bought API, they trademarked THRUST in italics because a trademark is easier to defend than a simple patent on something less complex than what already existed and worked better than it. Just like they trademarked their Vemaline knobs that they didn’t even design and then stopped buying them from Vemaline / Handles Unlimited and had them made in China. The “medium” setting works better anyway for anything but smashing overheads and that’s just a high pass and a high shelf according to sound on sound. |
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Post by ab101 on Apr 16, 2023 18:52:42 GMT -6
Like the Audioscape D-comp on overheads buss - on mixdown. And a great deal pricewise!
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Post by jacobamerritt on Apr 16, 2023 20:16:48 GMT -6
JDK R-22 is nice. Also just a touch of LA-2A style. Kush Tweezer/Tweaker.
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Post by sean on Apr 16, 2023 20:40:29 GMT -6
On a budget the BSS DPR-402 is a solid choice. I like using it in HF Re-Emphasis mode because it tends to compress the snare (usually the thing poking out in overheads) without causing the cymbals to “pump”. Plus it can do a bunch of other clever things…it has a peak limiter section and can be used as a de-esser with a side chain monitor so if your problem isn’t the snare but instead harsh cymbals, you can clamp that down.
Also, they are finicky, but I really like the Culture Vulture on overheads. But it’s difficult to get the balance of the left and right the same. I’m sure there are some other “Saturators” people can recommend
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Apr 16, 2023 20:51:29 GMT -6
Since the OH’s pretty much capture the entire kit, I tend not to compress them separate from the drum bus, if you listen carefully you can always hear some strange phase stuff.
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Post by ragan on Apr 16, 2023 21:42:47 GMT -6
I’m always trying OH compression thinking I can get something cool going on with it, and I always end up removing it.
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Post by bgrotto on Apr 16, 2023 22:57:32 GMT -6
1178 if you can find one for not stupid money. Otherwise, I tend to gravitate towards diode bridge style comps, like the D Comp, a 33609, or a TG1. Fatso is kinda great too, but more for the 'warmth' control than the compression, IMO.
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Post by klharper on Apr 16, 2023 23:09:58 GMT -6
Elysia xpressor 500 stays on my dedicated overhead channels [that sometimes will double duty on stereo overdubs like acoustic]
Mix control, warm button, and auto fast/log rel are all clutch features - even if I end up leaving the compressor parked the way I always use it.
Not ever really looking for overt compression/pumping, but just more polishing the sound and making it sound more like a record from the start. Because that makes everyone perform better, thus making a better record.
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Post by copperx on Apr 16, 2023 23:42:29 GMT -6
1178 if you can find one for not stupid money. Audioscape is releasing one soon. |
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Post by niklas1073 on Apr 17, 2023 0:07:09 GMT -6
I am tracking my drums thru a ua 4-710 pre. On overheads I use the integrated 1176 style comp which works great here. Big drum sound. I compress only slightly there. Overheads are probably the only thing though I wouldn't bother hooking up to comps if they weren’t there behind a flick of a switch.
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Post by gouge on Apr 17, 2023 4:54:52 GMT -6
Not ever really looking for overt compression/pumping, but just more polishing the sound and making it sound more like a record from the start. Because that makes everyone perform better, thus making a better record. This is where I’m looking to go too |
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Post by gouge on Apr 17, 2023 5:04:30 GMT -6
The d comp Looks pretty damn good. 2.5k aud……that’s going on the list.
I could buy some more JLM la500a modules which are pretty good for tracking.
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As a what if. What if I’m just looking for more of a console sound. Another option is some neve line amps or vp28’s
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Post by honkeur on Apr 17, 2023 6:01:32 GMT -6
I don’t smash the overheads, because there’s already compression and parallel compression across the drum bus. I stay in the box for treating the OH, so there will be a bit of saturation (usually Kazrog True Iron in RCA mode) and the DDMF Magic Death Eye doing 0.5 dbs gain reduction — just for tone and smoothness.
Only once have I tracked OH through a compressor and gotten great results. It was for a group going for a super-retro Beatles-esque sound. An AKG C60 (small diaphragm tube condensor) through an ancient green Altec 436c tube compressor, slammed. Instant Ringo, the cymbals pumped so much they almost sounded backwards. But really…not a sound you’d want every day.
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Post by niklas1073 on Apr 17, 2023 6:32:38 GMT -6
I am going to throw out a few thoughts I have regarding tracking drums and compression to debate about  . The drums I believe are by far the most demanding instrument to track. It's complex, lots of variables already before we start rigging the microphones. The biggest issue I think is that we seldom have drummers tracking who are good enough to play dynamically well within the set. I think a great drummer is separated from the good ones usually by the control of dynamics and a complete understanding of the set and its internal balance. If this is not met, which I feel is often the case, it is very hard to go by the principle of "overheads covers the kit and then we add some kick and snare". Which I am a believer of, and is my way to track drums. Rather we might end up miking everything and trying to create a balanced drum track on the desk. Which ofcourse might serve the sound we are after... but many times also not. Since I track drums usually with 4 mics, I have had hard times trying to save it when I realise drum balance is off. If the balance is right and playing is great, you can compress it as you wish, it will still sound balanced and great. But if these dynamics are off, you will get the cymbals pushing thru, or hi hat taking over etc. etc. Also the choice of cymbals can often be very wrong and not really fit the rest of the kit, the drummer or the room. So the question wether to compress overheads or not can be a tricky one even If we set aside the more ideological question of "compress or not when tracking". Maybe the bad experience and outcomes of compressing overheads has more to do with insufficient playing rather than wrong recording choices? Just a thought... |
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Post by eyebytwomuchgeer on Apr 17, 2023 7:12:49 GMT -6
More and more, in my limited experience, I'm finding myself not really doing anything to my overheads except some typical EQ moves, like cutting some lows, cutting some mids, and then treating the high end to taste.
I've found that I like running a mono OH right alongside a stereo pair. I will compress that mono OH, even going in, and I blend that one in to get the center image really reinforced.
Lately I've been tracking a lot of pop and rock stuff, and I'm finding that I'm leaning less on OH processing versus something like kick and snare close mic processing. The OH bus is sort of like the glue for the spot mics. Amongst all the plugins and processing, for me, having a nice minimally-treated OH sound to blend in makes everything else sound more natural. I blend in some Room mics for taste as well, but again, I'm finding those less and less vital. Growing up with Led Zeppelin and Nirvana made me think a big roomy sound was essential for a killer drum sound, but it really doesn't always fit in with most things.
I also don't like a lot of cymbal sound (and I'm a drummer). So, I'm always trying to minimize excessive cymbal noise relative to the kicks and snares. Too much compression on a capture-the-whole-kit type of OH setup tends to give me too much cymbal harshness if I'm not careful.
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Post by svart on Apr 17, 2023 7:38:23 GMT -6
1178 if you can find one for not stupid money. Otherwise, I tend to gravitate towards diode bridge style comps, like the D Comp, a 33609, or a TG1. Fatso is kinda great too, but more for the 'warmth' control than the compression, IMO. Either of these. 2x 1176 or 1178 or 33609 all rule on OH or drum bus. |
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Post by sean on Apr 17, 2023 8:00:44 GMT -6
If you are in Australia you might consider a Buzz Audio Velox, or the High Voltage Audio VMC-76.
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Post by bgrotto on Apr 17, 2023 8:14:14 GMT -6
1178 if you can find one for not stupid money. Otherwise, I tend to gravitate towards diode bridge style comps, like the D Comp, a 33609, or a TG1. Fatso is kinda great too, but more for the 'warmth' control than the compression, IMO. Either of these. 2x 1176 or 1178 or 33609 all rule on OH or drum bus. For 2x 1176 I'd specifically recommend a later rev, silver face 1176 (G or H) for this. I'm generally not a fan of those 76s, but on OHs, they bring something special that IMO the earlier revs don't have. |
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