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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 24, 2023 13:37:41 GMT -6
That reminds me, we've had surround sound for decades. Most people like it for watching movies, but for listening, not so much. Atmos seems to me to be a doubling down on the surround thing that few musicians and even fewer in the general public cared about. I imagine someday that there will be natural source of sound surrounding us. Imagine a hologram or 3D presentation with the walls being speakers themselves. That might be fun, but a gazillion speakers, no thanks.
Perhaps the headphone thing would be fun, but I would have to use some very good sounding ear buds, I wouldn't want to put my ears inside a heat and sweat inducing environment for very long.
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Post by collywobble on Mar 24, 2023 17:33:51 GMT -6
I like that Atmos for music is being driven by new releases rather than catalogue remixes as was the case with 5.1 back in the day. I've heard a few catalogue tracks that have been remixed in Atmos and they strike me as pointless at best, and not often that good. But some new music in Atmos can be very effective, at least on a speaker-based system. I'm still not convinced that binaural fold-down of an Atmos surround mix is half as good as a decent stereo mix on headphones.
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Post by yewtreemagic on Mar 25, 2023 11:58:24 GMT -6
...and in many stereo home playback systems, one loudspeaker remains on a shelf while the other is on the floor behind the sofa  |
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Post by the other mark williams on Mar 25, 2023 12:34:56 GMT -6
...and in many stereo home playback systems, one loudspeaker remains on a shelf while the other is on the floor behind the sofa ...and at least some percentage of the time, the one on the floor behind the sofa isn't actually plugged in, because the dog pulled the wires out of the speaker. |
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Post by smashlord on Mar 25, 2023 13:59:01 GMT -6
I haven't a had client even bring it up, yet. 1/2 of them are talking about putting out releases on vinyl and even cassettes. That is what is (seemingly) cool to artists and to their fans going to shows. That is what gives them something unique to sell at shows.
I get that Apple is trying to create a market that isn't there yet, but it seems that most casual listeners listen on things like their phone or lap top, which may as well be mono. That's what's convenient. I have heard criticisms of Atmos from people I know who are just music fans (not artists or in the industry) and how some of the mixes are just weird to them but not once some one getting excited that their favorite record is now available with an Atmosphere mix. It's just a non factor.
Anyway, when I start hearing people other than engineering and music industry folk start talking about it, I'll be a little less skeptical of its widespread adoption, but until then I am going to continue to struggle with making good stereo mixes!
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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 25, 2023 14:04:28 GMT -6
If the Atmos headphones are cheap enough, people might learn to enjoy it when watching movies.
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Post by donr on Mar 25, 2023 14:39:34 GMT -6
...and in many stereo home playback systems, one loudspeaker remains on a shelf while the other is on the floor behind the sofa When I visit people, just about everyone's 5.1 home theater systems are not well balanced. The subs are invariably not integrated into the sound field, badly crossed over, and stick out, usually too loud. The rears are too loud as well. It took me months of tweaking to get mine to properly disappear into the sound field in my living room. |
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Post by seawell on Mar 25, 2023 18:04:09 GMT -6
I think Colt jumped the gun a bit on this one but I can understand he was excited based off of what he had heard. IF Atmos sticks and that's a big IF...it will be because Apple forces it, not because of consumer demand in my opinion. I posted somewhere here on RGO a while back that I could see Apple only accepting Atmos versions at some point, not just for playlists but for new additions to the Apple Music catalog. I certainly hope it doesn't happen but Apple has quite the history of forcing what they think is best on the consumer.
The one thing I take issue with in the videos is that I highly doubt the stereo fold down sounded better than the original stereo mix. I'm going to need to see him demonstrate that on his channel at some point. That has not been my experience at all so if they have somehow cracked the code, I'm all ears!
Not to get too sidetracked but I think the main reason for the backlash he got from this video is the Sweetwater sponsorship. I hope that partnership has been very good for him because it's going to cause problems. He seems like a good guy but I also don't blame the viewers for having a healthy dose of skepticism from Sweetwater sponsored YouTubers.
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 25, 2023 19:23:10 GMT -6
OK, so I'll chime in here. Just a few weeks ago, I had a listening session at Blackbirds Studio "C" with Mark Rubel. He played all the songs that everyone is high about right now, in "ATMOS". Beautiful room, amazing monitors Yeah it was cool, but ground breaking? Breathtaking? Please. I've done a few ATMOS mixes for clients and in a nutshell, I feel certain types of music can benefit from this. But that said, Not enough to really make a difference to anyone but those who are actively seeking this type of thing out. The general population, wouldn't even notice, or care. Also, the rendering, stereo fold down / mix thing, at least at the moment, doesn't sound like the stereo mix I made, which for me was better in every way. Especially for Pop, and Rock, the stereo mixes were always punchier, and more visceral, I felt like they had much more energy, and emotion, then the ATMOS rendered mixes! But who knows, maybe it's me. I feel exactly like most of you do.... For movies, and maybe certain types of music presentations this could be cool... But I know I'm not one who they are marketing this towards, I still watch TV with whatever speakers came with the TV... Agree. I listened at Westlake Pro and found it kind of underwhelming. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 25, 2023 19:26:50 GMT -6
I think Colt jumped the gun a bit on this one but I can understand he was excited based off of what he had heard. IF Atmos sticks and that's a big IF...it will be because Apple forces it, not because of consumer demand in my opinion. I posted somewhere here on RGO a while back that I could see Apple only accepting Atmos versions at some point, not just for playlists but for new additions to the Apple Music catalog. I certainly hope it doesn't happen but Apple has quite the history of forcing what they think is best on the consumer. The one thing I take issue with in the videos is that I highly doubt the stereo fold down sounded better than the original stereo mix. I'm going to need to see him demonstrate that on his channel at some point. That has not been my experience at all so if they have somehow cracked the code, I'm all ears! Not to get too sidetracked but I think the main reason for the backlash he got from this video is the Sweetwater sponsorship. I hope that partnership has been very good for him because it's going to cause problems. He seems like a good guy but I also don't blame the viewers for having a healthy dose of skepticism from Sweetwater sponsored YouTubers. I know him personally. Super nice guy. He’s young and excitable lol. He’s built up a nice following and is good with the videos. |
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Mar 26, 2023 19:07:21 GMT -6
I posted it in a thread last year but I heard Apple's Spatial Audio demo at their developer center theater out at the headquarters in Cupertino last year and it was absolutely underwhelming. The presenter had a "you should be amazed" look on his face and I thought it sounded like a 5.1 fart.
I just feel no pull towards ATMOS at all when it comes to music.
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Post by nobtwiddler on Mar 26, 2023 20:20:35 GMT -6
I think it's foolish of anyone to think that software (the Dolby Renderer) can create a stereo mix from the ATMOS mix, that comes anywhere near a dedicated stereo mix.
I've compared them both here, on my work, and it wasn't even close.
But once again, it could just be me...
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Post by christopher on Mar 26, 2023 23:36:41 GMT -6
Ive been wondering why Apple atmos doesn’t bother me so much? And I realize it’s because I don’t go there for high quality stereo. It’s for ear buds, or the Bluetooth speaker. Car rides sometimes. So I guess it really doesn’t bother me if they go Atmos, and the fold down is broken, I’m already not in the zone.
The main reason I don't like Apple Music, everything is the latest ReMaster. And it always bugs me not to hear things how I remember them my whole life.
so If I don’t own it, I usually go to YouTube, look for people who uploaded originals, or needle drops of first pressings. Or go through my CDs or vinyl. Maybe buy and download some high res wavs somewhere
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Post by donr on Mar 27, 2023 10:08:00 GMT -6
Apple's app software in general is unappealing to me compared to alternatives. They'll take any category of app and make a version that's less intuitive. I subscribe to it, and Spotify, but use Spotify 95% of the time.
I suspect Apple's promotion of its spatial thing is to differentiate themselves from competition. Would that they could reanimate Steve Jobs.
Agree with Christopher about "remasters." Get off my lawn!
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Post by Vincent R. on Mar 27, 2023 10:33:36 GMT -6
I have to say, this thread has made me feel much better. lol.
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