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Post by theshea on Mar 6, 2023 12:09:33 GMT -6
i guess many here are mastering their own songs - except the pro‘s with budgets (becoming fewer and fewer?).
i almost always master my own mixes simply because there‘s no money. question: how do you get yourself in the „neutral“ detached zone which lets you almost forget your mixing phase? time? are you waiting like a week from finishing the mix to start mastering? or don‘t you start over fresh? and simply continue and finish your mixes with a mastering pass? simply making it louder and going back to the mix when you hear something wrong?
i try using ozones master assistant with some reference song but only to give me perspective. its interesting and informative to see ozones eq curves for example.
i than start mastering with my mastering chain but keeping in my mind ozones „suggestions“. but not copying them.
but i admit it: a fresh pair of ears would be better.
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Post by linas on Mar 6, 2023 12:11:19 GMT -6
I mix and master as I produce. Works for me. Noone ever complained.
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Post by svart on Mar 6, 2023 12:12:51 GMT -6
I don't master. I mix like I want to hear it when it's finished. If you're waiting to "make it sound better" until the end, then your mix isn't finished.
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Post by theshea on Mar 6, 2023 12:14:50 GMT -6
I mix and master as I produce. Works for me. Noone ever complained. thats what i used to do. i even put on some mastering plugins to hear how it would sound mastered when 75% through a mix. but lately i changed strategy and i try to finish the mix first and attempt the mastering in a separate step.
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Post by drumsound on Mar 6, 2023 12:15:00 GMT -6
At one point I had a little home rig for mastering. I was in a different space with different speakers. That method worked, but eventually that space wasn't available to me. And with bigger projects, we'd use someone else anyway. These days I use Old Colony Mastering with a flat rate per song. I tell clients about that in advance.
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Post by theshea on Mar 6, 2023 12:15:37 GMT -6
I don't master. I mix like I want to hear it when it's finished. If you're waiting to "make it sound better" until the end, then your mix isn't finished. well obviously thats my goal too when mixing. to have it sound like finished minus the loudness.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2023 12:22:40 GMT -6
I wait a bit and use multiple monitoring systems. I get more mastering work than mixing work simply because I don’t do that much to the sound in the multiband limiter era.
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Post by theshea on Mar 6, 2023 12:44:33 GMT -6
I wait a bit and use multiple monitoring systems. I get more mastering work than mixing work simply because I don’t do that much to the sound in the multiband limiter era. are you listening to some reference tracks to calibrate your ears when switching monitors? i always find to many monitors confusing. i only use 2 monitors.
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Post by jaba on Mar 6, 2023 13:03:21 GMT -6
I really don't like mastering project I've mixed. I feel too close to them and don't quite trust my judgement. But for lower budget projects I'll do it now and again. They seem happy but I'm never really sure just how good it is. By that point I've heard them way too many times to be objective.
No matter how good the mixes are, there are bound to be differences between them and mastering can provide that balance - making sure nothing's too dark/bright compared to the rest. I can do that but a good mastering engineer will usually offer a fresh perspective and provide a focus to the album that I might miss.
When I need to do it myself, I try to get at least a few days break so I'm coming at it somewhat fresh. Having them all together in a session will tell me a lot of what needs to be done. Find the best sounding mix, tweak as needed and nudges other towards that. Usual stuff. ADPTR AB is helpful to compare to other songs (the sound, I find the RTA can be deceiving) but I have to pull from several albums to hear how my mastering is fitting in to a "mix tape/playlist" scenario, not just to one other album.
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Post by phdamage on Mar 6, 2023 13:19:52 GMT -6
for me, "mastering" my own mix just means I push the level a little more - or maybe i back it off less. our jobs are to make it sound as good as we can, no?
what do you all "save" for mastering?
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Post by jaba on Mar 6, 2023 13:37:14 GMT -6
for me, "mastering" my own mix just means I push the level a little more - or maybe i back it off less. our jobs are to make it sound as good as we can, no? what do you all "save" for mastering? Other than level, I don't save anything for mastering. In reality though I'm not a golden eared god of audio so some mixes might be a bit darker/brighter than others, despite being good mixes that everyone likes. Each mix is hitting the way we all want, but maybe I just pushed too much of a certain area. Nothing major (ideally...) but there's always something that mastering can bring to the album as a whole. My favorite masterings are ones that don't try to impose a sound (seems a fair number of "mastering engineers" can be fairly heavy handed) and just pull everything together nicely.
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Post by theshea on Mar 6, 2023 13:51:26 GMT -6
for me, "mastering" my own mix just means I push the level a little more - or maybe i back it off less. our jobs are to make it sound as good as we can, no? what do you all "save" for mastering? well me too i am not saving something for mastering. i always try to mix as finished as possible. and most of the times - after some 99 mixrevisions ;-) i do truly believe i‘ve done a damn good job! but than comes „mastering“ time and i start to hear all new things i didn‘t hear before. while mixing i pay attention to a lot of details. in mastering i start to hear the big picture again like overall tonal balance and dynamics shifting from verse to chorus for example. so there‘s almost always something to correct. and that‘s the hardest part for me: shifting from mix/details to master/song-as-a-whole
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Post by linas on Mar 6, 2023 14:04:09 GMT -6
I mix and master as I produce. Works for me. Noone ever complained. thats what i used to do. i even put on some mastering plugins to hear how it would sound mastered when 75% through a mix. but lately i changed strategy and i try to finish the mix first and attempt the mastering in a separate step. Yeah, I also kinda feel like I don't hear the song in it's full glory until it's not exported and in VLC ;p
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Post by svart on Mar 6, 2023 14:06:43 GMT -6
I don't master. I mix like I want to hear it when it's finished. If you're waiting to "make it sound better" until the end, then your mix isn't finished. well obviously thats my goal too when mixing. to have it sound like finished minus the loudness. Loudness can only be achieved correctly if mixed.. into the mix. Getting a mix to a certain level and then expecting to be able to get it louder doesn't work as well, which is why you hear so many pumpy loud masters and why so many complain about how loud masters don't sound good.
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Post by notneeson on Mar 6, 2023 14:13:29 GMT -6
I reference with a mastering chain, variously turning it on and off for different purposes, but typically listening to the quasi mastered version outside the studio. If there’s no budget for mastering then it goes out as such. Whenever at all possible, it goes to mastering, and that’s Trakworx if I’m picking.
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Post by copperx on Mar 6, 2023 14:41:20 GMT -6
I get more mastering work than mixing work simply because I don’t do that much to the sound in the multiband limiter era. What do you mean? I often struggle with your posts because I can't follow how you get from point A to point B. Do you mean that mixing is sometimes futile because the multiband limiter is going to override your moves anyways? Or do you get mastering work mostly because you have a soft hand with the multiband limiter?
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Post by mcirish on Mar 6, 2023 14:42:17 GMT -6
I try to always send my mixes out to mastering, but sometimes there is no budget and the client doesn't want to spend the little extra. I try to get away from the mix for a week and then use a lot of references in Metric AB. I work on tonality first and then level. If they want to be at -6dB, they might be disappointed, but I can hit -10 to -8 LUFS and still have it sound good. For me, mastering comes down to trusting what you hear. Since using Sonarworks, I haven't had the mix problems I used to have. I can finally trust what I'm hearing is what's actually going on.
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Post by theshea on Mar 6, 2023 14:53:34 GMT -6
I try to get away from the mix for a week and then use a lot of references in Metric AB. I work on tonality first and then level. i put on the limiter first and see how loud i can get it without distortion. than i do the rest.
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Post by schmalzy on Mar 6, 2023 15:12:39 GMT -6
Many of my clients have tried having outside mastering.
The result is - while there are many good mastering engineers - the clients have chosen the audio from my masters every time. One time we used a mastering engineer who is a bigger name guy. They went with him because he'd publicize and feature/share the record through his content channels, etc.. He didn't do that so they paid too much, liked the result less, then didn't even get the promised publicity.
The budget that my clients often have doesn't include the extra bunch for someone else at the end. I'd definitely prefer things to be mastered by a really great mastering engineer but also I'm fine with the process we've been doing. I've had too many "affordable" mastering guys mess up my artist-approved mixes (which are always sent as reasonably hot quick-masters) and blow deadlines. I mix into some light mix bus stuff, pushing that mix bus stuff a little more as the mix develops. As I get every source in to the mix and things working reasonably well together I start iteratively mastering (oftentimes it looks a little like this: light limit, EQ, compress if necessary, gentle saturation, EQ, light limit, clip for volume, limit for volume). All that automation and all those dynamics changes interact with the eventual mastering. Knowing how the mastering is going to interact with my mix moves helps me make better mix moves during mix version 1.
And then when I'm done mixing I'll bounce out an all-but-the-loudness-specific mastering version of the mix and a no-master-chain version of the mix. I take both to the mastering session I set up for the record and I have an option for if the in-mix mastering still holds and I have an option for if that needs to be completely reworked to satisfy the rest of the record in context.
Pushing into the mastering chain informs me of what is and isn't working in my mix. Plus all of the reference material I listen to is in the pretty loud range. Transients don't sound finished to me until they're tucked in appropriately so I finish my mixes while listening to my most-of-the-way-there master.
Related:
I know a Grammy nominated mastering engineer whose starting analog chain is: limit, EQ, limit, EQ, limit, EQ and then goes back in the box to clip and limit if volume is a concern. His argument is that a good mix often just needs some gentle limiting to tuck in the impacts, some EQ to shape the tone and to guide what the next processing stage sees, a limiter to shape the new peaks from the last round of EQ, a little more limiting to control those new peaks, and then the final touch to get the mix's shape right before he goes back into the box to handle loudness stuff if that sort of thing is a concern for the record. His masters sound crazy good. Most of my clients can't/don't want to afford it.
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Post by christopher on Mar 6, 2023 19:14:21 GMT -6
I like IK Lurssen. I mean I’m not going to do a killer job myself anyway, it’s an easy one to play around with. Stand alone is fun... I’ll start in the morning, fresh ears, listen to a list of references in high res on YouTube, maybe some CD rips, try to be in a good mood. I often bypass a lot of the chain, use it as a final limiter, then go back and play with presets, try MS etc. I like the visual with the desk and big knobs, it does seem to help, and not a lot of features to waste time.. it’s quick to decide if its making anything better or not
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Post by jmoose on Mar 6, 2023 21:09:59 GMT -6
i put on the limiter first and see how loud i can get it without distortion. than i do the rest. Every legit pro mastering cat I've ever sent things to & been happy with? They work on tone first. Then add level. Most add level across a handful of stages... It's cumulative not one lump but it all starts with chasing tone. And I do feel the "too expensive" plea is total BS. There are plenty of people doing great work who aren't thousands and can master an EP for the cost of a plugin bundle. Couple hundred bucks.
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Post by jmoose on Mar 6, 2023 21:17:07 GMT -6
for me, "mastering" my own mix just means I push the level a little more - or maybe i back it off less. our jobs are to make it sound as good as we can, no? what do you all "save" for mastering? Save for mastering? Heads, tails, crossfades, radio edits... gapping between songs...overall level adjustments & fine tuning EQ... PQ sheets & encoding..? Formatting of deliverables..? Vinyl & physical media vs streamiing & digital? It's not just about slamming through a limiter. Anyone can make it loud in 30 seconds that's low rent hobbiest stuff. Labels tend to want things formatted correctly. Level & EQ is a fraction of the work.
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Post by notneeson on Mar 6, 2023 21:53:02 GMT -6
My friend worked in QA at Sony in NY. They did some kind of data wrangling but they also listened to every master on Grados prior to release because every once in a while a file would be sent for manufacturing and it would be blank or jacked up.
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Post by phdamage on Mar 6, 2023 22:18:54 GMT -6
for me, "mastering" my own mix just means I push the level a little more - or maybe i back it off less. our jobs are to make it sound as good as we can, no? what do you all "save" for mastering? Save for mastering? Heads, tails, crossfades, radio edits... gapping between songs...overall level adjustments & fine tuning EQ... PQ sheets & encoding..? Formatting of deliverables..? Vinyl & physical media vs streamiing & digital? It's not just about slamming through a limiter. Anyone can make it loud in 30 seconds that's low rent hobbiest stuff. Labels tend to want things formatted correctly. Level & EQ is a fraction of the work. i'm not arguing against mastering here or saying it's pointless. all I'm saying if I'm supposed to be mixing and mastering a project - which happens fairly often - it is not all that different than mixing for me. It just means I maybe don't go so gentle on the levels.
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Post by bgrotto on Mar 6, 2023 22:21:16 GMT -6
I don't even like to rely on the mastering engineer for loudness. If a record needs to be loud, I'll get there (or damn close to 'there') in the mix. My general goal is for my mix to sound at 'finished release' level with 2-4db of brick wall limiting, which is what I add to client refs. Usually a good ME can eke out another db or two of loudness without destroying things, though I have also had MEs deliver masters that were a db or two quieter than my client refs, which is always a pleasant surprise!
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