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Post by bluesprocket on Jun 22, 2014 8:30:54 GMT -6
Ok - so here's what I have. I have a 500 rack with 4 pres. Then I have 4 mic pres from the Apollo. I have two outboard compressors. I route all of that stuff through the Burl (and then spdif into the Apollo). So pardon my stupidity - I've only ever hooked up compressors with the patchbay. Do I still have to go mic to mic pre then into the patchbay. Then have the compressors connected and choose them via the front panel? I guess I would also have the Burl connected to the patchbay and go from front of compressor pb to in of burl pb. So - I could connect the outs of the the pres to the pb, but what about the ins? Do I still have to physically hook up mic to mic pres? Ok, I'm making a few assumptions here, so if I get something wrong correct me. But I assume you're tracking in the same room that all your gear is in. I'm also assuming that you find yourself changing pres and chains somewhat regularly. I would go get yourself a 1U rack panel that has XLR Feedthrough jacks installed in it. There are some off the shelf varieties that are very overpriced, and there are plenty of ways to go about psuedo-DIY if you're at least marginally handy. The advantage of this is that your mic pre connections wont take up space on the patchbay, which is at a real premium when you're talking 1/4" bays. It doesn't take a super long time for 24 in and outs to get eaten up even with a marginally complicated setup. I really like the Middle Atlantic UNI-1-1 panel since it has knockouts that allow you to only have the holes you need connectors for, while the rest stay filled until you need an extra jack or two. You can then fill those with either XLR connectors and solder some custom XLR whips to get to your mic pres, or get some Neutrik NA3FDM feed through XLRs and plug a short XLR cable into the back. Another benefit to this setup is if you ever have needs to bring other connection up from the back of your gear that really doesn't belong in the bay there are tons of different feedthrough type connectors that you can get. After that, the mic pre outputs, compressors, the converters, and anything else that is Line In / Line Out should be wired with Outputs coming to the top row of the patchbay and the inputs wired to the bottom row. At least thats the convention I've always come across, it forces you to think of the flow from top to bottom. I'm sorry that description is somewhat vague, if you post a more specific gear list I could try to do a quick google spreadsheet with a suggested patchbay layout. Do you have a "default" chain, or chains, that you almost always use as a starting point but want to be able to patch differently just in case?
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 25, 2014 21:23:50 GMT -6
I got a DBX PB-48 and Sal walked me through setting it up THANKS, littlesicily! So - why did I wait this long to do this? Jeesh...I'm a moron. This is awesome! Finally really able to A/B pres and able to choose a compressor by listening...not just plugging one in and being too lazy to switch it out.
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Post by littlesicily on Jun 25, 2014 21:29:31 GMT -6
I got a DBX PB-48 and Sal walked me through setting it up THANKS, littlesicily! So - why did I wait this long to do this? Jeesh...I'm a moron. This is awesome! Finally really able to A/B pres and able to choose a compressor by listening...not just plugging one in and being too lazy to switch it out. Glad to help Johnkenn!
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Post by tonycamphd on Jun 26, 2014 10:36:57 GMT -6
so I think i'm going with D-sub 50 connectors from my patchbay, color coded and numbered groups of 16, i have a boatload of mogami 16 paired wire, D-sub 25(the standard it seems) will force me to split each mogami length into 2, and shrink wrap, i also would need minimum of 40 connectors to get the backs of all my gear to the patchbay, so as of now, 50 it is...
i'm looking at... Console= 128 connections for 32 channel strips, mic input, line input, insert, direct out 32 connections for 8 busses, group out, tape out L/R, insert 15 connections for stereo buss, L/R monitor, L/R control room monitor, L/R direct out, mono, L/R insert, and 8 aux sends
thats 175 points for just the back of the console, i will only run 16 mic inputs to the patchbay and mic line input panel, as i'll never see myself needing more than 16 mics at once, so that is 159 points! lol
if i use D-sub25's that is 20 females on a panel!! If i go D50's, that's 10. That doesn't include a shit ton of outboard gear that's all going to the patchbays, i'm going to have at least 20-30 connectors if i never want to get behind the racks as far as i can tell.
I'm going to make a 2 box system, a metal encased patchbays panel that will sit atop my new console desk, a metal encased D-sub side with 3' of mogami's between that will drop through to the back and into the back of my racks(4-19"x 26" tall) under my console, the patchbay will have most of the ins normalled to the outs.
the main reason i'm NOW doing it this way, is i've always run connection specific with labels, but then i always change things/gear and have to re label or rewire, it's an enormous pita! This way, i can also connect/disconnect my satellite 500 series tracking side car with a single cable! I'm making this rig a central, mobile rolling station, that i can push up a ramp(with help) into the back of a truck, and take to any location i want on a moments notice. The 16 channel groupings of D-subs will just be numbers, normals, colors, simple and very flexible, and should keep me from ever doing this again....god please 8)
any suggestions on improving this plan are totally welcome, that is why i posted this 8)
thanx fella's T
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jun 26, 2014 11:05:18 GMT -6
i'm looking at... Console= 128 connections for 32 channel strips, mic input, line input, insert, direct out (This will have another 32 because I assume that your inserts are in and out right? Also more connections for your other inserts below right?)32 connections for 8 busses, group out, tape out L/R, insert 15 connections for stereo buss, L/R monitor, L/R control room monitor, L/R direct out, mono, L/R insert, and 8 aux sends See red above ^
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Post by tonycamphd on Jun 26, 2014 11:12:19 GMT -6
i'm looking at... Console= 128 connections for 32 channel strips, mic input, line input, insert, direct out (This will have another 32 because I assume that your inserts are in and out right? Also more connections for your other inserts below right?)32 connections for 8 busses, group out, tape out L/R, insert 15 connections for stereo buss, L/R monitor, L/R control room monitor, L/R direct out, mono, L/R insert, and 8 aux sends See red above ^ the tip/ring carry the signal to and fro on most inserts, thats whats happening here.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jun 26, 2014 12:16:11 GMT -6
That's what's coming out of your console, but you'll break that out to 2 patch points on your patchbay.
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Post by tonycamphd on Jun 26, 2014 18:21:51 GMT -6
That's what's coming out of your console, but you'll break that out to 2 patch points on your patchbay. 8/ Dohhhp! right you are, thanx J You think the basic plan is decent? not a very sexy topic i know, but you're the only one who responded ha!
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jun 26, 2014 18:36:42 GMT -6
That's what's coming out of your console, but you'll break that out to 2 patch points on your patchbay. 8/ Dohhhp! right you are, thanx J You think the basic plan is decent? not a very sexy topic i know, but you're the only one who responded ha! I'll have to look it over a bit more. I haven't done any db25 connections or anything in my system, but the idea of it being a bit modular sounds pretty cool.
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Post by tonycamphd on Jun 26, 2014 18:49:47 GMT -6
8/ Dohhhp! right you are, thanx J You think the basic plan is decent? not a very sexy topic i know, but you're the only one who responded ha! I'll have to look it over a bit more. I haven't done any db25 connections or anything in my system, but the idea of it being a bit modular sounds pretty cool. agreed, i'm going with db50's though, mogami pairs of 16.
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Post by Ward on Jun 27, 2014 6:42:37 GMT -6
the tip/ring carry the signal to and fro on most inserts, thats whats happening here. Unbalanced insert points?
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Post by tonycamphd on Jun 27, 2014 10:44:27 GMT -6
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Post by Ward on Jun 27, 2014 11:20:21 GMT -6
Unbalanced insert points in an otherwise balanced audio signal path REALLY rot me. I guess that's why I like outdoor pres, EQs and Comps. I can keep the signal path flexible, clean and balanced.
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Post by mulmany on Jun 27, 2014 12:15:33 GMT -6
Unbalanced insert points in an otherwise balanced audio signal path REALLY rot me. I guess that's why I like outdoor pres, EQs and Comps. I can keep the signal path flexible, clean and balanced. "Outdoor" wow that is taking it to another level! :-)
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Post by tonycamphd on Jun 27, 2014 12:42:59 GMT -6
Unbalanced insert points in an otherwise balanced audio signal path REALLY rot me. I guess that's why I like outdoor pres, EQs and Comps. I can keep the signal path flexible, clean and balanced. "Outdoor" wow that is taking it to another level! :-) Funny 8) your console in all likelihood has unbalanced signal running through it, pre's are usually before the channel circuit, and an unbalance piece in line will not be noisey at all if implemented properly, besides this, the noise specs are killer for an analog rig, balanced or not, jimwilliams could competently speak to this much better than I
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2014 13:02:53 GMT -6
O_oHm, something that always bothered me a bit was inserting balanced gear in the unbalanced console inserts...if you take it seriously, for at least the gear with electronically de- and balancing stages, i always think, i should use unbal/balance converter stages or transformers for optimal behavior...how do you guys handle this?
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Post by winetree on Jun 27, 2014 13:47:03 GMT -6
My problem is just the opposite. Running unbalanced outboard in and out of a balanced console. All the ins and outs on my Harrison console are balanced. (yes it runs unbalanced internally) On some gear I'll use a +4 balanced to -10 unbalanced converter others I'll tie the - and GND together and go into the unbalanced gear. Luck 95% of my gear is +4 balanced. If your not running into any ground loops, hum, or impedence toning, Keep doing what your doing, I wouldn't worry about it.
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Post by Ward on Jun 27, 2014 15:11:04 GMT -6
Unbalanced insert points in an otherwise balanced audio signal path REALLY rot me. I guess that's why I like outdoor pres, EQs and Comps. I can keep the signal path flexible, clean and balanced. "Outdoor" wow that is taking it to another level! :-) Ms and my damned typos... I was probably holding a conversation with someone about an outdoor festival at the same time I was typing this. I'll bet I referred to it as an "outboard festival" too!! LMAO
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Post by mulmany on Jun 27, 2014 16:02:08 GMT -6
I was envisioning a weather tight rack unit all fitted for a deep sea adventure... like a underwater camera.
That's what they need for outdoor festivals!
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Jun 30, 2014 17:09:10 GMT -6
I have been working on my Bays for about a year Now and some of the secrets I have learned! 1 leave room to grow! 2 heat shrink label every wire ! 4 buy a punch and make your own Dsub panels (EBay) 5 Cheap TRS bays make great vent panels! And real Milspec Jacks will outlast my 10 year old!
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 30, 2014 20:14:42 GMT -6
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Jun 30, 2014 21:40:05 GMT -6
Glad to find where your hanging these days John!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2014 14:52:09 GMT -6
OK, so we have our patch bays set up and we have lots of space between the desk and the wall so... you can see all the nice, new, red cables behind the desk.
Can we wire tie these together in bundles indiscriminately? I mean I would certainly avoid mixing audio with power cables but am I right that I am free to make sit all nice-nice back there and won't cause a problem if careful?
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Post by tonycamphd on Jul 6, 2014 15:01:14 GMT -6
@heartfelt as long as the cable you used is shielded, yes.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2014 22:30:32 GMT -6
@heartfelt as long as the cable you used is shielded, yes. Yup, thanks!
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