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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 20, 2023 12:28:08 GMT -6
Lucky you! Yeah, those threads get brutal. It's like religion. And the ProTools people, especially, are ready to burn you at the stake for heresy. "Confess that ProTools is industry standard. CONFESS!!!" EDIT: No offense to the PT people which is about 80% of my friends on the offline world. And you're right, it is industry standard. It's just that in software industry standard usually also means "it sucks". Exhibit A - Windows Pro Tools is far worse than Windows. Microsoft hadn’t outsourced Windows’ development yet. True. You gotta at least give Microsoft credit for attempting to innovate with Windows even though all of their innovations just make it even more bloated. And in their defense, it's a lot harder making an OS when you are trying to build it for virtually infinite number of hardware systems. Apple has the advantage of owning the whole chain, way easier. Point remains. Industry standard is almost always a bad thing in my experience. It usually means "the thing we all use but we didn't choose." That would be a good marketing line for a DAW... "REAPER is the software you choose" |
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Post by ragan on Feb 20, 2023 12:29:40 GMT -6
I didn’t intend any wittiness. And I don’t doubt what you say about what you’ve seen on the forums. I was only pointing out how we can all experience things differently. I guess depending on what forums/threads we frequent and maybe what interactions stick on our memory. I haven’t seen any (that I remember) of the Reaper hate. I haven’t actually seen any DAW hate though, so I must just (thankfully) not be in the kinds of threads where people are touchy about their DAWs. I’ve got nothing against Reaper (or any other DAW). I tried it once, seemed totally fine except that I was completely inexperienced with it so it was clunky for me. Same for any other DAW that I don’t know well though. Lucky you! Yeah, those threads get brutal. It's like religion. And the ProTools people, especially, are ready to burn you at the stake for heresy. "Confess that ProTools is industry standard. CONFESS!!!" EDIT: No offense to the PT people which is about 80% of my friends on the offline world. And you're right, it is industry standard. It's just that in software industry standard usually also means "it sucks". Exhibit A - Windows The things people find the energy to be fussy about always amaze me. |
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Post by svart on Feb 20, 2023 14:05:40 GMT -6
Lucky you! Yeah, those threads get brutal. It's like religion. And the ProTools people, especially, are ready to burn you at the stake for heresy. "Confess that ProTools is industry standard. CONFESS!!!" EDIT: No offense to the PT people which is about 80% of my friends on the offline world. And you're right, it is industry standard. It's just that in software industry standard usually also means "it sucks". Exhibit A - Windows The things people find the energy to be fussy about always amaze me. There's only so many times you can get talked down to by folks before you want to tear down their idols. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 20, 2023 14:29:32 GMT -6
The things people find the energy to be fussy about always amaze me. There's only so many times you can get talked down to by folks before you want to tear down their idols. I got mocked by a local studio guy/producer (actually friend, so it was in good fun... but still) for using Logic. LOGIC!! Basically "nobody is ever going to take you seriously if you're sending them mixes from Logic." In fact, I think those might have been his exact words. This was three years ago. So yeah, it's out there. Something makes me think this same dude would not be a Reaper fan. That's the smart money... |
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Post by craigmorris74 on Feb 20, 2023 14:38:54 GMT -6
Favorite conversation I’ve had multiple times:
“What program do you use?”
“Reaper”
“Oh, studio X in city Y has Pro Tools”
“Yeah, I own Pro Tools, but I kinda hate using it”
Baffled look.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 20, 2023 14:50:51 GMT -6
Favorite conversation I’ve had multiple times: “What program do you use?” “Reaper” “Oh, studio X in city Y has Pro Tools” “Yeah, I own Pro Tools, but I kinda hate using it” Baffled look. I will say this. A grand total of 0% of artists have ever asked or cared what software I'm using. I have had some pushback on the rare occasion that someone wants to send me something and I tell them they need to render any of their PT automations. It doesn't happen often because... 1) most people do that anyway 2) I don't do a lot of that type of work (though I wish I did, I enjoy it) If I was getting a lot of stem work, I'd probably just bite the bullet and buy a copy of PT Ultimate so I could bounce the stems myself if I really had to. It kind of blows my mind that anyone would want to do hours of work on a mix and then just let someone change their threshold on the vocal or whatever. Who doesn't bounce stems? |
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Post by craigmorris74 on Feb 20, 2023 14:54:45 GMT -6
I only ever want clean stems or rendered tracks simply because the plugins used in a session won’t necessarily be what I have.
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Post by sirthought on Feb 20, 2023 14:56:11 GMT -6
Your friend criticizing Logic has no clue. There are so many major albums that are created in Logic it's crazy. Most artists have a Mac and Logic is cheap. And for tracking it's fairly easy to use.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 20, 2023 14:56:24 GMT -6
I only ever want clean stems or rendered tracks simply because the plugins used in a session won’t necessarily be what I have. Exactly. And again... can you imagine sending someone non-rendered files? For them to just put their dirty hands/ears all over? Perish the thought... |
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Post by EmRR on Feb 20, 2023 14:56:44 GMT -6
I mean really, if it's coming from the client, for me it's usually GarageBand anyway. Of the last dozen things to come my way from other DAW, one has been PT. If I'm supposed to own all the industry standards, it'd be a big list! I just told an amateur PT guy I could take his PT file last week.....he told me he's switched to Studio One!
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 20, 2023 14:58:46 GMT -6
I mean really, if it's coming from the client, for me it's usually GarageBand anyway. Of the last dozen things to come my way from other DAW, one has been PT. If I'm supposed to own all the industry standards, it'd be a big list! 100%. I get GarageBand and Logic. But a few times I had someone that wanted to finish stuff that they started at a big studio. And once (literally once) I got "you really expect me to bounce this stuff down for you?" They did it in the end but I was like "I don't know man, it's your client. Do what you want." |
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Post by EmRR on Feb 20, 2023 15:09:13 GMT -6
I mean really, if it's coming from the client, for me it's usually GarageBand anyway. Of the last dozen things to come my way from other DAW, one has been PT. If I'm supposed to own all the industry standards, it'd be a big list! 100%. I get GarageBand and Logic. But a few times I had someone that wanted to finish stuff that they started at a big studio. And once (literally once) I got "you really expect me to bounce this stuff down for you?" They did it in the end but I was like "I don't know man, it's your client. Do what you want." ...you can pay me hourly to do it if you won't....includes time downloading demo version of DAW and learning it..... ....and none of the GB people know how to export anything, so I have to do it..... |
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Post by ragan on Feb 20, 2023 15:13:20 GMT -6
The things people find the energy to be fussy about always amaze me. There's only so many times you can get talked down to by folks before you want to tear down their idols. I guess so? We’re still talking about programs for recording music on computers right? Such passion and dramatic language! There is apparently an epic battle for identity-as-defined-by-DAW-choice waging out here and I’ve been totally oblivious to it. So anyway, uh, how is Reaper for comping? Does it have smart tool options for edits (ie hold the cursor at a clip division and it’s ready to cross fade, hold it at an edge and it’s ready to trim, etc)? I’ve always wanted to give a little more effort to trying some other DAWs and the efficiency/workflow stuff is all I really care about. I assume any of the other DAWs can do any of the stuff I like in PT and it’s just a matter of learning them. |
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Post by copperx on Feb 20, 2023 15:14:20 GMT -6
Regarding:
"Having one track type with unlimited routing possibilities is pretty sick once you get used to it."
Is great until you realize that every plugin is by default running in stereo EVEN in mono tracks, using more processing power than needed. To fix this, you have to open the plugin routing panel for each mono track, and set the VST bus to 1.
This is often not mentioned. In other DAWs, mono tracks get mono VST processing automatically. That's one of the advantages of having different types of tracks.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 20, 2023 15:14:27 GMT -6
100%. I get GarageBand and Logic. But a few times I had someone that wanted to finish stuff that they started at a big studio. And once (literally once) I got "you really expect me to bounce this stuff down for you?" They did it in the end but I was like "I don't know man, it's your client. Do what you want." ...you can pay me hourly to do it if you won't....includes time downloading demo version of DAW and learning it..... ....and none of the GB people know how to export anything, so I have to do it..... Well in that case I made the studio do it. And they did. They were ripping this guy off. He paid for like four days of recording and they were giving him a hard time about bouncing rendered audio cuz he didn't want to hire them to mix. Jerks. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 20, 2023 15:15:50 GMT -6
Regarding: "Having one track type with unlimited routing possibilities is pretty sick once you get used to it." Is great until you realize that every plugin is by default running in stereo EVEN in mono tracks, using more processing power than needed. To fix this, you have to open the plugin routing panel for each mono track, and set the VST bus to 1. This is often not mentioned. In other DAWs, mono tracks get mono VST processing automatically. That's one of the advantages of having different types of tracks. Good call out. I actually figured this out from trying to learn how to use ReaInsert. Same deal. Unless you want that vocal hard left, you gotta adjust the routing panel. But again... once you figure it out, it's awesome. "Wait a minute, I can custom route my plugins?" |
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Post by craigmorris74 on Feb 20, 2023 15:19:51 GMT -6
Regarding: "Having one track type with unlimited routing possibilities is pretty sick once you get used to it." Is great until you realize that every plugin is by default running in stereo EVEN in mono tracks, using more processing power than needed. To fix this, you have to open the plugin routing panel for each mono track, and set the VST bus to 1. This is often not mentioned. In other DAWs, mono tracks get mono VST processing automatically. That's one of the advantages of having different types of tracks. Of course, if this is an issue, you just make a mono track template, and use it when needed. Even with this feature “flaw” in Reaper I can still run more plugins (irrelevant to me because I use so few) and tracks in it than in Pro Tools with mono/stereo channels. |
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Post by copperx on Feb 20, 2023 15:27:00 GMT -6
...you can pay me hourly to do it if you won't....includes time downloading demo version of DAW and learning it..... ....and none of the GB people know how to export anything, so I have to do it..... Well in that case I made the studio do it. And they did. They were ripping this guy off. He paid for like four days of recording and they were giving him a hard time about bouncing rendered audio cuz he didn't want to hire them to mix. Jerks. This is a sadly extremely common occurrence. Many AEs get butthurt when an external mix engineer is mentioned. I've experienced them giving the client the runaround with track exports or charging them extra (which is OK, but it's often quoted as if it were an extra 10-hour day at the studio). |
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Post by jacobamerritt on Feb 20, 2023 15:39:38 GMT -6
Yes Reaper is awesome. So many times ProTools rolls out a new feature I realize I've already been using that feature in Reaper for quite a while. Reaper is a professional and powerful tool. Not sure many argue otherwise, but I feel like maybe theres a stigma because its so affordable or something.
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Post by copperx on Feb 20, 2023 15:53:12 GMT -6
Yes Reaper is awesome. So many times ProTools rolls out a new feature I realize I've already been using that feature in Reaper for quite a while. Reaper is a professional and powerful tool. Not sure many argue otherwise, but I feel like maybe theres a stigma because its so affordable or something. In my experience, those that have a stigma against Reaper have a general "Oh, it's not Pro Tools, so it's amateur time" stigma, so it's not really about Reaper itself. And Pro Tools still has a lot going for it, like: a nice UI, ultra low latency with HDX, consistent and non customizable shortcuts, excellent surface support (and its free EuCON iOS app for mixing without a mouse!), and backward compatibility even with ancient setups. I don't care much for such things, but there are those who do. |
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Post by Mister Chase on Feb 20, 2023 16:08:16 GMT -6
Reaper user since the beginning(almost). It's very good. Idk what else to say. Customize and enjoy.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2023 16:23:11 GMT -6
Your friend criticizing Logic has no clue. There are so many major albums that are created in Logic it's crazy. Most artists have a Mac and Logic is cheap. And for tracking it's fairly easy to use. The only issues with Logic are also issues with Pro Tools: doing dither wrong and latency compensation. Logic also has real versioning. |
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Post by svart on Feb 20, 2023 16:25:54 GMT -6
Regarding: "Having one track type with unlimited routing possibilities is pretty sick once you get used to it." Is great until you realize that every plugin is by default running in stereo EVEN in mono tracks, using more processing power than needed. To fix this, you have to open the plugin routing panel for each mono track, and set the VST bus to 1. This is often not mentioned. In other DAWs, mono tracks get mono VST processing automatically. That's one of the advantages of having different types of tracks. Of course, if this is an issue, you just make a mono track template, and use it when needed. Even with this feature “flaw” in Reaper I can still run more plugins (irrelevant to me because I use so few) and tracks in it than in Pro Tools with mono/stereo channels. I was running about 60 tracks one day and the band member asked me about freezing tracks and bouncing and stuff and I was like "I dunno, never done either one" and he was absolutely BAFFLED by this statement. He had a two year old Mac/PT and told me couldn't run half the tracks with all the plugs I had running on a 6-7 year old 500$ PC. |
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Post by svart on Feb 20, 2023 16:30:25 GMT -6
There's only so many times you can get talked down to by folks before you want to tear down their idols. I guess so? We’re still talking about programs for recording music on computers right? Such passion and dramatic language! There is apparently an epic battle for identity-as-defined-by-DAW-choice waging out here and I’ve been totally oblivious to it. So anyway, uh, how is Reaper for comping? Does it have smart tool options for edits (ie hold the cursor at a clip division and it’s ready to cross fade, hold it at an edge and it’s ready to trim, etc)? I’ve always wanted to give a little more effort to trying some other DAWs and the efficiency/workflow stuff is all I really care about. I assume any of the other DAWs can do any of the stuff I like in PT and it’s just a matter of learning them. Reaper cross fades automatically. Also fades in/out automatically. You can change any of those features in the options too. But you can hold the pointer near the top edge of the track fade to pull it out alt-click for different fades, or hold the pointer at the slice for grabbing either the preceding track segment, both track segments, or the following track segment. You can also view takes in lanes, or layered. I prefer layered and I can switch between takes by hitting T or U. |
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Post by tkaitkai on Feb 20, 2023 16:35:25 GMT -6
So anyway, uh, how is Reaper for comping? Does it have smart tool options for edits (ie hold the cursor at a clip division and it’s ready to cross fade, hold it at an edge and it’s ready to trim, etc)? I’ve always wanted to give a little more effort to trying some other DAWs and the efficiency/workflow stuff is all I really care about. I assume any of the other DAWs can do any of the stuff I like in PT and it’s just a matter of learning them. Reaper is great for comping, and it does have the features you mentioned — you can just drag the edge of one clip over another and it automatically crossfades, then you can double-click to edit the crossfade if needed. The built-in "takes" system is basically Reaper's version of PT playlists. It's kind of annoying to me personally (some people really like it), but thankfully, you can disable it by going into the actions menu and enabling 'tape mode' (i.e. destructive editing). The biggest hurdle to getting along with Reaper is figuring out how to customize it to YOUR workflow. This can be a giant PITA if you're not familiar with Reaper's architecture, and is probably the main reason why so many people give up on it. Most of the default behaviors in Reaper generally suck, and it takes a while to wrap your head around the fact that you can literally change anything you don't like, including menu items, mouse/scrollwheel behaviors, keyboard shortcuts, editing behavior, etc. I'm at the point where I have a Reaper configuration that I'm 100% happy with, but it took me years to get there. I'm like you in that I don't really have strong feelings about DAWs — I still like PT and have been curious to try Luna. I just happen to use Reaper. It all does the same stuff, honestly. |
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