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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 17, 2023 14:26:18 GMT -6
I'm probably gonna stay with Studio One because I really like the customizations, I love that I can do hardware inserts and save the presets with distinct plugin names (e.g. it looks like I have a plug-in called OptoComp), and a bunch of other things. However, I'm now three weeks in to dealing with an issue where there's a CPU spike at the moment I press "export" and I'm losing heart that Presonus Support is going to be able to solve it.
Anyway, might as well DAW shop.
Logic is on my list because I own it and I've used it before.
I'm just so tired of the GUI. I downloaded LPX Colorizer and that helps a bit. I've done a few mixes the last few weeks and remembered everything I did and didn't like about Logic. The likes are the same as everyone else. The dislikes are the lack of auto bus routing (a la S1 or Cubase), the lack of drag and drop, weird quirks on the routing type tracks (Master, Stereo, etc) and just the general feeling that Apple always wants me to do it their way.
ProTools is on the list just because I figured I should look at it. But lack of hardware insert delay compensation is probably just a deal annihilator for my workflow.
And then Cubase.
I downloaded the demo of Pro. Lots to like. But also a lot to not like. Stylistically it feels like a weird combo of futuristic and dated. Hard to explain. The GUI feels like I'm in spaceship but in a spaceship that was designed in 1997.
Some of the mixing features are awesome though. A lot of the same stuff I like about S1 but cooler little details as well. Auto track align is useful. The metering is great. I like that you can record a track and then press record again and it trashes what you did and starts back at the beginning. I am the king of the false start... this alone would save me so much time in later cleanup of comp tracks.
But damn it's ugly in places. And the fonts are hard to read on my screen. Sometimes they're hard to read because they're too large and bold, other times because they're too small. I literally found myselft toggling screen resolution depending on what window I was in. Not good.
Anyway, not sure what I'm going for with this post. Maybe I'm hoping someone will tell me that "you get used to it" with Cubase or that there's some third party macro to fix all that weirdness. Maybe someone will tell me "why did you leave Logic to begin with?" or someone else will say "dude, just deal with it with S1".
Good thing is this... thanks to Logic no productivity lost.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 17, 2023 14:27:46 GMT -6
Oh yeah... and Cubase doesn't support VST2 in Silicon mode. No big deal right? Yeah, but UAD plugins are VST2 still. Stubborn bastards. And Cubase won't support AU as a matter of principle. Stubborn bastards.
Meanwhile... it's the kids who are suffering cuz mom and dad can't get along.
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Post by Tbone81 on Feb 17, 2023 14:53:01 GMT -6
Longtime Cubase user here. There’s a lot in common between Cubase and S1, lots to customize to your liking. The Control Room function is great, hardware inserts great, midi is great etc etc. Both S1 and Cubase, workflow wise, are setup nicely for songwriting but I think Cubase is a little more mature when it comes to mixing.
UAD plug-ins work fine, I’m running some native plugs through spark (licenses I already owned) and no issues.
And the GUI…yikes…i recently updated from version 9.5 to 12 and th GUI took a huge step backwards. It’s god awful. Like some tried to improve the coloring using crayons. I spent a lot of time adjust contrast, colors, GUI schemes etc (in Cubase) and then again adjusting the color of my monitor and it looks better but still like dog shit. Hard on the eyes etc…epic fail for Steinberg on that front.
Still, it’s a great DAW with lots of cool tricks (chord tracks, virgin automation territory’s, macro and quick key customization), and the stock plugins sound good too.
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Post by sirthought on Feb 17, 2023 14:58:25 GMT -6
Reaper is pretty deep, but if the GUI is a big issue for you, everything is customizable and several users have created setups to operate and look like other DAWs. I know a guy who was PT for years and has Reaper operating pretty much like PT's good stuff.
It uses both VST and AU.
Has delay compensation.
It's just a learning curve because it makes so many choices available to the user you don't always know which way to turn. Kind of the opposite of Logic. But at least Logic's results are very respectable.
I used Cubase as my first DAW back in the late 90s, so I recall what you mean about the design. I'm not recalling what you mean by auto bus routing.
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Post by drumsound on Feb 17, 2023 15:06:58 GMT -6
Is it possible that what you really need a new computer? It seems like you really like S1 but some things are getting goofy. That feels like a host issue more than a program issue, but maybe I'm nuts.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 17, 2023 15:27:21 GMT -6
Is it possible that what you really need a new computer? It seems like you really like S1 but some things are getting goofy. That feels like a host issue more than a program issue, but maybe I'm nuts. I’m on an M1 Mini. Should be fine? The spikes only started when I upgraded to version six. It’s very strange. And only when I try to export, I’m running at 15% capacity and then I get an export spike at the moment I click the button. |
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Post by the other mark williams on Feb 17, 2023 16:05:55 GMT -6
Is it possible that what you really need a new computer? It seems like you really like S1 but some things are getting goofy. That feels like a host issue more than a program issue, but maybe I'm nuts. I’m on an M1 Mini. Should be fine? The spikes only started when I upgraded to version six. It’s very strange. And only when I try to export, I’m running at 15% capacity and then I get an export spike at the moment I click the button. What happens if you close your eyes before you click the ‘export’ button? Any change? Sorry, been sick in bed with a fever for two days and I’m getting a little punchy. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 17, 2023 16:10:40 GMT -6
I’m on an M1 Mini. Should be fine? The spikes only started when I upgraded to version six. It’s very strange. And only when I try to export, I’m running at 15% capacity and then I get an export spike at the moment I click the button. What happens if you close your eyes before you click the ‘export’ button? Any change? Sorry, been sick in bed with a fever for two days and I’m getting a little punchy. Dude... that's about where it's getting with the troubleshooting with Presonus. "Have you tried burning sage?" "What happens if you wear the same socks you wore when you were on Version 5?" The thing is that it pops up the "audio overload" window. That wouldn't be the worst thing except that S1 only measures whether or not there's been an overload on export, not how many. So there's no way to know if there was a "real" overload. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 17, 2023 16:14:19 GMT -6
Reaper is pretty deep, but if the GUI is a big issue for you, everything is customizable and several users have created setups to operate and look like other DAWs. I know a guy who was PT for years and has Reaper operating pretty much like PT's good stuff. It uses both VST and AU. Has delay compensation. It's just a learning curve because it makes so many choices available to the user you don't always know which way to turn. Kind of the opposite of Logic. But at least Logic's results are very respectable. I used Cubase as my first DAW back in the late 90s, so I recall what you mean about the design. I'm not recalling what you mean by auto bus routing. Reaper kind of feels like a cult. Haha. No offense to all the Reaperites out there! But honestly? I should be open minded. Because what I really want is for my software to do exactly what I want it to do. I'm a person that some have called "particular" if that tells you anything. Visuals and logical layout are super important to me but my idea of logical is sometimes a bit unique. The thing that sucks is that the S1 people seem to understand what I want to do but it's not stable. The Cubase people seem to understand what I want to do but they don't seem to care how it looks and feels. Maybe it's Reaper time. Who knows... |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 17, 2023 16:17:37 GMT -6
Reaper is pretty deep, but if the GUI is a big issue for you, everything is customizable and several users have created setups to operate and look like other DAWs. I know a guy who was PT for years and has Reaper operating pretty much like PT's good stuff. It uses both VST and AU. Has delay compensation. It's just a learning curve because it makes so many choices available to the user you don't always know which way to turn. Kind of the opposite of Logic. But at least Logic's results are very respectable. I used Cubase as my first DAW back in the late 90s, so I recall what you mean about the design. I'm not recalling what you mean by auto bus routing. Reaper kind of feels like a cult. Haha. No offense to all the Reaperites out there! But honestly? I should be open minded. Because what I really want is for my software to do exactly what I want it to do. I'm a person that some have called "particular" if that tells you anything. Visuals and logical layout are super important to me but my idea of logical is sometimes a bit unique. The thing that sucks is that the S1 people seem to understand what I want to do but it's not stable. The Cubase people seem to understand what I want to do but they don't seem to care how it looks and feels. Maybe it's Reaper time. Who knows... Haha... I'm one minute into this intro video on Reaper and I'm like "someone finally KNOWS me!" "Work the way I want to work, not what THEY want me to do!!!" Get me a robe and shave my head... I'm at least interested. Haha. |
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Post by the other mark williams on Feb 17, 2023 16:28:24 GMT -6
What happens if you close your eyes before you click the ‘export’ button? Any change? Sorry, been sick in bed with a fever for two days and I’m getting a little punchy. Dude... that's about where it's getting with the troubleshooting with Presonus. "Have you tried burning sage?" "What happens if you wear the same socks you wore when you were on Version 5?" The thing is that it pops up the "audio overload" window. That wouldn't be the worst thing except that S1 only measures whether or not there's been an overload on export, not how many. So there's no way to know if there was a "real" overload. Ugh, that sounds super super annoying. I’ve used several DAWs over the years, including Cubase at a studio partner’s place for a few projects several years ago, and I know what you mean about Cubase’s GUI. It always reminded me of Star Trek: The Next Generation, which is a better series than it is an aesthetic. I basically settled on Logic in the early 2000s and have stuck with it. I imagine you’ve looked up ways to change the behavior of Logic where it annoys you? (I’m assuming yes) I do find—and not infrequently—that someone will proclaim a behavior in Logic to be inferior, but it was because they didn’t know they could’ve done it an easier way all along if they'd just selected this particular tool or simply assigned a key command to the function. Not saying that’s you, just asking. |
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Post by gwlee7 on Feb 17, 2023 16:51:49 GMT -6
Lol. Having met you in person, I can see how “particular” could be an adjective some folks use to describe you.  ETA: Wish I could help you troubleshoot but I haven’t upgraded to 6. I still haven’t even learned everything that was on 4 whatever and I am on 5. |
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Post by svart on Feb 17, 2023 17:06:16 GMT -6
Reaper.
It seems like a cult because you have folks who've come over and realized how good it really is but we're constantly faced with gatekeepers and naysayers everywhere where folks ask about alternatives so we have to be a little louder to rise above the noise so that folks know there's a viable alternative to the status quo.
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Post by drumsound on Feb 17, 2023 17:24:38 GMT -6
Is it possible that what you really need a new computer? It seems like you really like S1 but some things are getting goofy. That feels like a host issue more than a program issue, but maybe I'm nuts. I’m on an M1 Mini. Should be fine? The spikes only started when I upgraded to version six. It’s very strange. And only when I try to export, I’m running at 15% capacity and then I get an export spike at the moment I click the button. I'd think you'd be fine there. I assume this is a recent and latest update. What are any S1 fourms saying? You can't be the only one having this issue. Seems like it's gonna be one of those bug fixes. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 17, 2023 17:53:06 GMT -6
In case there is a host issue, have you run onyx or something like that to clean out digital artifacts and do you leave it in sleep mode regularly ??
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Post by RealNoob on Feb 17, 2023 18:42:38 GMT -6
@ OP
I left PT back at 7.4. I have always used Reaper for live tracking and used it for mixing for a bit. Then spent a lot of time in SO. I was convinced it is faster. It may truly be. I am back in PT. The only thing I can't stand is the soloing structure. Seems to be working just fine though.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 17, 2023 19:08:33 GMT -6
In case there is a host issue, have you run onyx or something like that to clean out digital artifacts and do you leave it in sleep mode regularly ?? I do put my computer in sleep mode a lot actually. Although I also reboot fairly frequently. Never run Onyx or the like, I never really have in the past either though. Actually I have no idea what that even is. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 17, 2023 19:10:16 GMT -6
I’m on an M1 Mini. Should be fine? The spikes only started when I upgraded to version six. It’s very strange. And only when I try to export, I’m running at 15% capacity and then I get an export spike at the moment I click the button. I'd think you'd be fine there. I assume this is a recent and latest update. What are any S1 fourms saying? You can't be the only one having this issue. Seems like it's gonna be one of those bug fixes. That's kind of where I'm landing with it. There are two or three other similar complaints in the forums but not much else. Seems to be folks that are using a lot of outboard though that could just be a red herring. I've really narrowed it down to bare bones and am figuring out nothing. It can be improved but never goes away. It really does feel like some sort of a system thing but I can't figure out what! I've disable nearly everything we can think of. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 17, 2023 19:11:21 GMT -6
@ OP I left PT back at 7.4. I have always used Reaper for live tracking and used it for mixing for a bit. Then spent a lot of time in SO. I was convinced it is faster. It may truly be. I am back in PT. The only thing I can't stand is the soloing structure. Seems to be working just fine though. Why are you back in ProTools? Curious. For me ProTools is a non-starter for now (like Luna) because I do so much mixing with hardware in a hybrid format. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 17, 2023 19:41:53 GMT -6
In case there is a host issue, have you run onyx or something like that to clean out digital artifacts and do you leave it in sleep mode regularly ?? I do put my computer in sleep mode a lot actually. Although I also reboot fairly frequently. Never run Onyx or the like, I never really have in the past either though. Actually I have no idea what that even is. Shareware designed by an ex apple coder, I believe, designed tk just clean out digital artifacts, theoretically you shouldn’t need it, but when ever my mac does something weird systemwise, I run oynx !  |
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Post by RealNoob on Feb 17, 2023 21:21:45 GMT -6
@ OP I left PT back at 7.4. I have always used Reaper for live tracking and used it for mixing for a bit. Then spent a lot of time in SO. I was convinced it is faster. It may truly be. I am back in PT. The only thing I can't stand is the soloing structure. Seems to be working just fine though. Why are you back in ProTools? Curious. For me ProTools is a non-starter for now (like Luna) because I do so much mixing with hardware in a hybrid format. I don't really have a solid answer. It just felt like the thing to do. Took a couple weeks to acclimate. I am using hardware on the master. Hard to mess that up. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 18, 2023 1:51:34 GMT -6
Well I'll say this for Reaper... the customization is fun. In fact I've lost three hours just fiddling with this thing and trying out themes. Time to try to actually mix something. I'm intrigued by the idea of "one track type" to rule them all. I hate rules for tracks, just let me do what I want to!
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 18, 2023 1:57:12 GMT -6
Just discovered multiple row mixer... ok Reaper you've got my attention. Let's get serious.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 18, 2023 12:51:59 GMT -6
Reaper… very interesting. The flexibility with what you can do with a universal audio track is very cool. So much easier to set up complicated routing schemes with multiple outputs on some auxes.
On the other hand it’s a little bit frustrating to set up very basic schemes. I guess people use macros and templates for this.
I can see sticking with S1 for tracking and doing basic in the box mix prep, then going over to reaper to do mixes with my fairly complex route and set up, then going back to S1 to do in the box mastering.
I also think it’s pretty cool how easy it is to swap out different themes. I’ve set up Reaper to do mixing, but I suppose I could easily build another theme that’s organized around tracking. The thing I haven’t got my head around yet is how to do low latency recording with virtual instruments. I don’t do that a lot but I do it about once or twice on every project for organ or piano.
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Post by bgrotto on Feb 18, 2023 12:55:38 GMT -6
@ OP I left PT back at 7.4. I have always used Reaper for live tracking and used it for mixing for a bit. Then spent a lot of time in SO. I was convinced it is faster. It may truly be. I am back in PT. The only thing I can't stand is the soloing structure. Seems to be working just fine though. Why are you back in ProTools? Curious. For me ProTools is a non-starter for now (like Luna) because I do so much mixing with hardware in a hybrid format. I've been mixing in pro tools my entire career and for as long as I can remember, my hardware inserts have been delay-compensated. Sometimes the latency is misreported if you're using third-party converters and you need to manually correct this in the I/O setup...is that what you're referring to here? |
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