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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 18, 2023 12:57:40 GMT -6
Why are you back in ProTools? Curious. For me ProTools is a non-starter for now (like Luna) because I do so much mixing with hardware in a hybrid format. I've been mixing in pro tools my entire career and for as long as I can remember, my hardware inserts have been delay-compensated. Sometimes the latency is misreported if you're using third-party converters and you need to manually correct this in the I/O setup...is that what you're referring to here? ProTools native (or whatever they call it now) doesn’t have this. At least that’s my understanding. So I imagine you must be using an HD or HDX system right? That’s the gold standard for hardware inserts, it’s just not practical for my set up. |
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Post by bgrotto on Feb 18, 2023 13:28:13 GMT -6
I've been mixing in pro tools my entire career and for as long as I can remember, my hardware inserts have been delay-compensated. Sometimes the latency is misreported if you're using third-party converters and you need to manually correct this in the I/O setup...is that what you're referring to here? ProTools native (or whatever they call it now) doesn’t have this. At least that’s my understanding. So I imagine you must be using an HD or HDX system right? That’s the gold standard for hardware inserts, it’s just not practical for my set up. I'm using an HDX system, but previously used HD Native and the 'vanilla' versions, all without issue as best as I can remember. FWIW, I'm 100% the HD Native ran perfectly. The 'vanilla' version isn't one i'v used in ages, but I'm like 90% hw inserts were compensated since around version 10 or so. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 18, 2023 14:28:29 GMT -6
ProTools native (or whatever they call it now) doesn’t have this. At least that’s my understanding. So I imagine you must be using an HD or HDX system right? That’s the gold standard for hardware inserts, it’s just not practical for my set up. I'm using an HDX system, but previously used HD Native and the 'vanilla' versions, all without issue as best as I can remember. FWIW, I'm 100% the HD Native ran perfectly. The 'vanilla' version isn't one i'v used in ages, but I'm like 90% hw inserts were compensated since around version 10 or so. This is the number one thing I hear people complain about with the current ProTools standalone. But I may be misunderstanding. |
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Post by thehightenor on Feb 18, 2023 14:30:17 GMT -6
If I set out to design a DAW it would end up being like Cubase Pro 12 - so I use Cubase Pro 12, it's like it was designed for me :-)
That's what you want, to feel like the developers knows how you like to make music and when you go to find a feature it's where you except and would want it to be.
There's is so many DAW's out there now, if you try them out - one is going to really connect with you - hopefully :-)
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Post by bgrotto on Feb 18, 2023 15:13:47 GMT -6
I'm using an HDX system, but previously used HD Native and the 'vanilla' versions, all without issue as best as I can remember. FWIW, I'm 100% the HD Native ran perfectly. The 'vanilla' version isn't one i'v used in ages, but I'm like 90% hw inserts were compensated since around version 10 or so. This is the number one thing I hear people complain about with the current ProTools standalone. But I may be misunderstanding. Just double checked the PT reference manual. Pro Tools Ultimate software will automatically compensate for hw inserts. You can manually compensate hw inserts but that's a bit imprecise, IMO, as it only works at hundreds of a millisecond resolution. If you want to pony up for PT ultimate (software only, just fyi...no need to buy hdx cards or interfaces), you'll have hw inserts available and automatically compensated for latency. If that price tag is too steep, you're probably better off with a different piece of software. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 18, 2023 16:29:58 GMT -6
So weird. I actually have an ultimate trial waiting for me. I’ll try it out!
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Post by the other mark williams on Feb 18, 2023 18:29:15 GMT -6
This is the number one thing I hear people complain about with the current ProTools standalone. But I may be misunderstanding. Just double checked the PT reference manual. Pro Tools Ultimate software will automatically compensate for hw inserts. You can manually compensate hw inserts but that's a bit imprecise, IMO, as it only works at hundreds of a millisecond resolution. If you want to pony up for PT ultimate (software only, just fyi...no need to buy hdx cards or interfaces), you'll have hw inserts available and automatically compensated for latency. If that price tag is too steep, you're probably better off with a different piece of software. I wonder how it automatically compensates if it doesn’t know the latency of the A/D/A chips in your converter? I always thought this was one the arguments people gave for using AVID boxes: the conversion latency was a known quantity. |
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Post by RealNoob on Feb 18, 2023 20:46:22 GMT -6
Just discovered multiple row mixer... ok Reaper you've got my attention. Let's get serious. Thats my fav feature for live recording bands at conferences - meters for all tracks right there |
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Post by bgrotto on Feb 18, 2023 21:17:50 GMT -6
Just double checked the PT reference manual. Pro Tools Ultimate software will automatically compensate for hw inserts. You can manually compensate hw inserts but that's a bit imprecise, IMO, as it only works at hundreds of a millisecond resolution. If you want to pony up for PT ultimate (software only, just fyi...no need to buy hdx cards or interfaces), you'll have hw inserts available and automatically compensated for latency. If that price tag is too steep, you're probably better off with a different piece of software. I wonder how it automatically compensates if it doesn’t know the latency of the A/D/A chips in your converter? I always thought this was one the arguments people gave for using AVID boxes: the conversion latency was a known quantity. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, it doesnt. You’ll need to manually adjust if your converter latency is not equal to that of avid’s. I have this problem at my studio where we use burl conversion that said, a lot of third party converter cos match avids latency, or give an option to do so. For example later burl converters have a jumper to slow their performance to match that of avid. |
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Post by the other mark williams on Feb 18, 2023 21:36:21 GMT -6
I wonder how it automatically compensates if it doesn’t know the latency of the A/D/A chips in your converter? I always thought this was one the arguments people gave for using AVID boxes: the conversion latency was a known quantity. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, it doesnt. You’ll need to manually adjust if your converter latency is not equal to that of avid’s. I have this problem at my studio where we use burl conversion that said, a lot of third party converter cos match avids latency, or give an option to do so. For example later burl converters have a jumper to slow their performance to match that of avid. Thanks, Benny. It's been many years since I've been on a PT rig, but the idea of going back still pops up in the back of my mind every so often. |
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Post by lowlou on Feb 19, 2023 6:05:42 GMT -6
Reaper time ! 'Luck  you'll end up liking it way more than the previous daw. Amen |
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Post by drbill on Feb 19, 2023 9:52:17 GMT -6
For me ProTools is a non-starter for now (like Luna) because I do so much mixing with hardware in a hybrid format. I've been mixing in pro tools my entire career and for as long as I can remember, my hardware inserts have been delay-compensated. Sometimes the latency is misreported if you're using third-party converters and you need to manually correct this in the I/O setup...is that what you're referring to here? Ditto. Zero problems in mixing with hardware in PT for me. I've been hardcore hybrid for over a decade now. Zero problems with hardware and delay compensation. And as the OP mentioned, you can "name" your inserts so they are named after your hardware. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2023 12:03:27 GMT -6
Studio One is now a Presonus product who are now owned by Fender…
reaper, Logic, pro tools, and Cubase are all reliable options for the most part.
Reaper and Logic are cheap too.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 19, 2023 14:18:15 GMT -6
I've been mixing in pro tools my entire career and for as long as I can remember, my hardware inserts have been delay-compensated. Sometimes the latency is misreported if you're using third-party converters and you need to manually correct this in the I/O setup...is that what you're referring to here? Ditto. Zero problems in mixing with hardware in PT for me. I've been hardcore hybrid for over a decade now. Zero problems with hardware and delay compensation. And as the OP mentioned, you can "name" your inserts so they are named after your hardware. But again, HD or HDX right? Moving over to Carbon for example would be a $10k proposition just to get 32x48. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 19, 2023 14:18:43 GMT -6
Studio One is now a Presonus product who are now owned by Fender… reaper, Logic, pro tools, and Cubase are all reliable options for the most part. Reaper and Logic are cheap too. Kinda digging Reaper so far I must say. Crazy flexible. |
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Post by bgrotto on Feb 19, 2023 15:06:21 GMT -6
Ditto. Zero problems in mixing with hardware in PT for me. I've been hardcore hybrid for over a decade now. Zero problems with hardware and delay compensation. And as the OP mentioned, you can "name" your inserts so they are named after your hardware. But again, HD or HDX right? Moving over to Carbon for example would be a $10k proposition just to get 32x48. Pro tools software exists separately from pro tools hardware. So, you can purchase a sw license for PT ultimate and use hw inserts with delay compensation. Skip the overpriced pt hw if it doesn’t provide necessary value. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 19, 2023 15:15:06 GMT -6
But again, HD or HDX right? Moving over to Carbon for example would be a $10k proposition just to get 32x48. Pro tools software exists separately from pro tools hardware. So, you can purchase a sw license for PT ultimate and use hw inserts with delay compensation. Skip the overpriced pt hw if it doesn’t provide necessary value. Right, which gets me back to where I was to begin with. I use delay compensation a ton right now. I guess the alternative would be to just get a plugin to test the RTL and enter it manually? Seems like a lot of work for an average of 12 - 16 instances per project. |
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Post by bgrotto on Feb 19, 2023 15:18:14 GMT -6
Pro tools software exists separately from pro tools hardware. So, you can purchase a sw license for PT ultimate and use hw inserts with delay compensation. Skip the overpriced pt hw if it doesn’t provide necessary value. Right, which gets me back to where I was to begin with. I use delay compensation a ton right now. I guess the alternative would be to just get a plugin to test the RTL and enter it manually? Seems like a lot of work for an average of 12 - 16 instances per project. No. The hw insert delay compensation feature isn't tied to the hardware. It's a software feature. That feature is present in PT Ultimate. The caveat is that if your existing hw had a different latency from that of Avid's, you'll need to manually compensate. FWIW if I were you, and PT was my best option (not sure that's the case for you, but just saying if it were) I'd be looking at scooping up an old PT HD Native rig and an ultimate license. Add a 16x16 avid io and you're up and running for probably under 3k (maybe even less...I haven't checked prices in a while, but since hd native is retired I bet the hw is super cheap). |
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Post by drbill on Feb 19, 2023 15:54:34 GMT -6
Ditto. Zero problems in mixing with hardware in PT for me. I've been hardcore hybrid for over a decade now. Zero problems with hardware and delay compensation. And as the OP mentioned, you can "name" your inserts so they are named after your hardware. But again, HD or HDX right? Yes. |
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Post by drbill on Feb 19, 2023 15:56:50 GMT -6
Right, which gets me back to where I was to begin with. I use delay compensation a ton right now. I guess the alternative would be to just get a plugin to test the RTL and enter it manually? Seems like a lot of work for an average of 12 - 16 instances per project. No. The hw insert delay compensation feature isn't tied to the hardware. It's a software feature. That feature is present in PT Ultimate. The caveat is that if your existing hw had a different latency from that of Avid's, you'll need to manually compensate. FWIW if I were you, and PT was my best option (not sure that's the case for you, but just saying if it were) I'd be looking at scooping up an old PT HD Native rig and an ultimate license. Add a 16x16 avid io and you're up and running for probably under 3k (maybe even less...I haven't checked prices in a while, but since hd native is retired I bet the hw is super cheap). ^^^^^^^^. This. Excellent advice from Benny re: software and system options. In my world, there is only One..... Almost 30 years ago now, PT was my first, and I'm pretty confident it will also be the last DAW I ever boot up when that day comes..... |
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Post by lpedrum on Feb 19, 2023 16:56:48 GMT -6
I've been mixing in pro tools my entire career and for as long as I can remember, my hardware inserts have been delay-compensated. Sometimes the latency is misreported if you're using third-party converters and you need to manually correct this in the I/O setup...is that what you're referring to here? Ditto. Zero problems in mixing with hardware in PT for me. I've been hardcore hybrid for over a decade now. Zero problems with hardware and delay compensation. And as the OP mentioned, you can "name" your inserts so they are named after your hardware. All above ditto with Cubase. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2023 17:08:31 GMT -6
Right, which gets me back to where I was to begin with. I use delay compensation a ton right now. I guess the alternative would be to just get a plugin to test the RTL and enter it manually? Seems like a lot of work for an average of 12 - 16 instances per project. No. The hw insert delay compensation feature isn't tied to the hardware. It's a software feature. That feature is present in PT Ultimate. The caveat is that if your existing hw had a different latency from that of Avid's, you'll need to manually compensate. FWIW if I were you, and PT was my best option (not sure that's the case for you, but just saying if it were) I'd be looking at scooping up an old PT HD Native rig and an ultimate license. Add a 16x16 avid io and you're up and running for probably under 3k (maybe even less...I haven't checked prices in a while, but since hd native is retired I bet the hw is super cheap). Another big issue with hardware inserts is the latency can vary on many usb interfaces because the port is polled. Many USB interfaces drivers are +/- 1 sample and RME's USB is sample accurate but just accurate to the sample. The pinged hardware insert can still phase when you stop and restart playback or save, close, and reopen the session because the latency changed. PCI-E solutions (including HDX) avoid this. |
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Post by bgrotto on Feb 19, 2023 18:06:01 GMT -6
No. The hw insert delay compensation feature isn't tied to the hardware. It's a software feature. That feature is present in PT Ultimate. The caveat is that if your existing hw had a different latency from that of Avid's, you'll need to manually compensate. FWIW if I were you, and PT was my best option (not sure that's the case for you, but just saying if it were) I'd be looking at scooping up an old PT HD Native rig and an ultimate license. Add a 16x16 avid io and you're up and running for probably under 3k (maybe even less...I haven't checked prices in a while, but since hd native is retired I bet the hw is super cheap). Another big issue with hardware inserts is the latency can vary on many usb interfaces because the port is polled. Many USB interfaces drivers are +/- 1 sample and RME's USB is sample accurate but just accurate to the sample. The pinged hardware insert can still phase when you stop and restart playback or save, close, and reopen the session because the latency changed. PCI-E solutions (including HDX) avoid this. Does this mean USB hw can have a different latency on day X as it does on day Y? |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Feb 19, 2023 18:48:40 GMT -6
Right, which gets me back to where I was to begin with. I use delay compensation a ton right now. I guess the alternative would be to just get a plugin to test the RTL and enter it manually? Seems like a lot of work for an average of 12 - 16 instances per project. No. The hw insert delay compensation feature isn't tied to the hardware. It's a software feature. That feature is present in PT Ultimate. The caveat is that if your existing hw had a different latency from that of Avid's, you'll need to manually compensate. FWIW if I were you, and PT was my best option (not sure that's the case for you, but just saying if it were) I'd be looking at scooping up an old PT HD Native rig and an ultimate license. Add a 16x16 avid io and you're up and running for probably under 3k (maybe even less...I haven't checked prices in a while, but since hd native is retired I bet the hw is super cheap). Got it, so would it be able to handle hardware with varying latency? For example... I run inserts from my Cranborne 500ADAT which has about a 27 sample delay as well as my MOTU AO24 which has a 75 sample delay. So if this is a global setting in PT that wouldn't work correctly if I'm understanding you. Good take on the PT HD Native rig. That would be the only realistic way to do it, just go whole hog. Not sure it's the right time for me although it doesn't does feel like an eventual inevitability. EDIT - wrote 'doesn't' instead of 'does'... kind of opposite meaning |
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Post by bgrotto on Feb 19, 2023 18:51:21 GMT -6
No. The hw insert delay compensation feature isn't tied to the hardware. It's a software feature. That feature is present in PT Ultimate. The caveat is that if your existing hw had a different latency from that of Avid's, you'll need to manually compensate. FWIW if I were you, and PT was my best option (not sure that's the case for you, but just saying if it were) I'd be looking at scooping up an old PT HD Native rig and an ultimate license. Add a 16x16 avid io and you're up and running for probably under 3k (maybe even less...I haven't checked prices in a while, but since hd native is retired I bet the hw is super cheap). Got it, so would it be able to handle hardware with varying latency? For example... I run inserts from my Cranborne 500ADAT which has about a 27 sample delay as well as my MOTU AO24 which has a 75 sample delay. So if this is a global setting in PT that wouldn't work correctly if I'm understanding you. Good take on the PT HD Native rig. That would be the only realistic way to do it, just go whole hog. Not sure it's the right time for me although it doesn't feel like an eventual inevitability. Two different pieces of hardware with different converters that have different latency will DEFINITELY require manual adjustment to make the compensation accurate. And, there's a chance NEITHER will work as 'default' unless one happens to share identical latency with Avid's hardware. |
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you'll end up liking it way more than the previous daw. Amen 
